Vance: America hasn't won a single war in the last 40 years

[Foinikas]

The Korean War was about deciding the fate of South Korea in large part. North Korea created a professional military force with Soviet and Chinese support and came close to occupying and annexing South Korea in 1950 but the US intervened to prevent collapse of South Korea and US-led forces defeated North Korean military force in South Korea [Operation Chromite]. But General MacArthur postulated that the war is not over until North Korea capitulates and his forces advanced towards Pyongyang and Yalu River in an attempt to cut off North Korea from China but China responded to this move with great force and China-led forces advanced all the way to Seoul in 1951 [Chinese Spring Offensive]. Chinese leadership thought that retaking Seoul will provide advantage in negotiating the outcome of the war but US-led forces regrouped and fought to liberate South Korea (again) and the war continued until all communist forces accepted independence of South Korea in 1953.

Chinese military performance in the Korean War is impressive as China prevented collapse of North Korea and could hold a part South Korea including Seoul for a period of time. These achievements were never in doubt but the US prevented collapse of South Korea in the face of repeated attempts to decide its fate. The war concluded with acceptance of South Korea from all sides in line with American regional interests. This is important to understand.

Once more,Legend is spot on.

 

[MH.Yang]

We knew you'd balk at ever naming those 10 countries you mentioned...we could see that coming a mile away.

View attachment 97702
^^^ The phantom top 10 list that will never be named ^^^
Chinese...all huff...no puff.

USA, China, Russia, France, UK, Japan, Germany, India, Italy, Brazil.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

US may have won some of the wars but once the dust settled, it just didn't feel like winning

It's the sentiment that matters in this case, rather than the facts

coming from a lowly whites background, Vance knows vevy well what kind of message his rust belt folks resonate with.

 

[Beijingwalker]

North Korea created a professional military force with Soviet and Chinese support and came close to occupying and annexing South Korea in 1950

PRC was estalished in late 1949 with over half of China not being under its control, DPRK was established in 1948. What kind of support PRC can give DPRK when China itself was in the thick of a civil war?

 

[FuturePAF]

US may have won some of the wars but once the dust settled, it just didn't feel like winning

It's the sentiment that matters in this case, rather than the facts

coming from a lowly whites background, Vance knows vevy well what kind of message his rust belt folks resonate with.

The mission asked of young service men and women was beyond the scope of the resources given to them. Winning hearts and minds in countries where the people don’t see a continuous solid relationship with the US was the difference between winning in Germany and Japan, and failing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Korea and Vietnam were proxy wars in the Cold War, a contest of wills. The Soviets were paid back in small proxy wars around the world, but directly in Afghanistan in the 80s.

This is why you see the shift back to thinking about warfare, but limiting it to Latin America and western hemisphere (Panama, Greenland, possibly Venezuela, the cartels), then a build up for a potential conflict; big power competition, and finally using diplomatic and economic means for the rest of the eastern hemisphere.

I expect to see Marines training more heavily in Jungle gear, for Latin America and manning posts in the many south pacific islands the US use to operate, such as Tinnian Island.

Look at this new ad for the special forces (specially the Green Berets, which specialize in training local guerrilla allies): Iron Sharpens Iron. The shift in the recruitment will start with the special operators.

Btw, I lived for years in the area of the country JD is from. He is also from my generation. A few of my classmates signed up to join the service after 9/11 and were sent overseas. So I understand, at least a little of where JD is coming from. The thought that our generation’s sacrifice may have been in vain if the military had been led by incompetents for the past 3 decades.

Btw, I personally don’t think the US and China will ever go to war, with China focused on becoming a regional military power in the areas around itself and protecting its SLOCs, so just for the record, that’s why I don’t see a conflict in discussing Chinese military modernization as an American. Chinese military modernization does benefit partner nations that look to work with and procure Chinese arms, like Pakistan, which also share the goals of a stable developing world. Pakistan that is also a partner nation with the US, and still a MNNA, in areas of shared national interests. So Pakistan’s relationship with the two major powers are not at odds with each other.

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Jungle Training will overlap for Latin America and the South Pacific.

The following is a good documentary, over hour long, to watch on the shift in training.

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[AZ_HighCountry]

I too am from the area where JD was born; right next door in PA. And at a time when father and friends had been to Korea and older brothers of classmates were in Vietnam.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

US may have won some of the wars but once the dust settled, it just didn't feel like winning

It's the sentiment that matters in this case, rather than the facts

coming from a lowly whites background, Vance knows vevy well what kind of message his rust belt folks resonate with.

As someone whose roots are similar to the Vice President's, he is the poster child of what you can become if you are willing to work hard. And yes, because he is "one of them" (as I am), of course his message is going to resonate.

As for winning, get the politicians away from the gaming boards and what each move will do to their stock portfolio and allow the warfighters to fight, then watch what happens.

I for one am cynical in a lot of respects. I earned that right to be.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

USA, China, Russia, France, UK, Japan, Germany, India, Italy, Brazil.

Oddly enough the US has had our military stationed in bases in more than half of those 10 countries since the Korean War.

France, UK, Japan, Germany, Italy

..and for some of the above...US troops are there right now.

..as for China...well I don't have to tell anybody what your military has never done.

 

[SolarWarden]

Oddly enough the US has had our military stationed in bases in more than half of those 10 countries since the Korean War.

France, UK, Japan, Germany, Italy

..and for some of the above...US troops are there right now.

..as for China...well I don't have to tell anybody what your military has never done.

HEY! The PLA had a war in 1989 against an unarmed force and performed very ok-ish... PLA lost many soldiers in that war their enemy armed with sticks, rocks and molotov cocktails. Force to be reckon with.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Oddly enough the US has had our military stationed in bases in more than half of those 10 countries since the Korean War.

France, UK, Japan, Germany, Italy

..and for some of the above...US troops are there right now.

..as for China...well I don't have to tell anybody what your military has never done.

To clarify, the US does not have any bases today in France.

 

[Starlord]

As I said above, the MIC can't help themselves. The world profits off the back of the American fighting man and woman now. Can't let us win. Got profits to meet.

Its always about money in the end after all, war serves no one except selective few, make wealthy even more wealthier while the sheep's just rally around their leaders to go to other countries for senseless slaughter while thinking that they are being patriots and serving their country.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Its always about money in the end after all, war serves no one except selective few, make wealthy even more wealthier while the sheep's just rally around their leaders to go to other countries for senseless slaughter while thinking that they are being patriots and serving their country.

So, you live here in the US and obviously in an IT-related role given what I read in a prior post. First, welcome and if you do relocate to Austin, it will be fine. I was there many times during my tenure at Motorola.

Regarding those who don their nation's uniform; if Pakistan were to find itself threatened maybe even invaded, would you not willing to put on the uniform of your nation and defend it to the death if necessary? Was I mistaken that Jinnah very nearly lost his life in the founding of your homeland?

For every individual past, present, future, who has been willing to take that oath, there are probably 100 or even a 1000 who bash the military. But to claim those who do are merely sheep is so far removed from reality it is pitiful.

 

[Starlord]

So, you live here in the US and obviously in an IT-related role given what I read in a prior post. First, welcome and if you do relocate to Austin, it will be fine. I was there many times during my tenure at Motorola.

Regarding those who don their nation's uniform; if Pakistan were to find itself threatened maybe even invaded, would you not willing to put on the uniform of your nation and defend it to the death if necessary? Was I mistaken that Jinnah very nearly lost his life in the founding of your homeland?

For every individual past, present, future, who has been willing to take that oath, there are probably 100 or even a 1000 who bash the military. But to claim those who do are merely sheep is so far removed from reality it is pitiful.

I mean sort-of, I work as Operations/Telecom engineer, but I am trying to get Net ops Engineering position, the department happen to be in two locations, St Louis MO, or Austin TX, so obviously my choice will be for Austin TX, unless I do find another similar position here in Florida, I like Florida as the weather is similar to Karachi Pakistan. But i hate bugs and lizards here, I have a extreme phobia of every bugs.

Invasion is different, if a country is invaded I have no issue with soldiers defending their home, but ask yourself will you as American give same leverage to Iraqi's ? Or Palestinians ? or every Country US troops invaded ? No, you will call Iraqi fighting for their home " Terrorists " and you will praise soldier who serve in Iraq, I am against Wars but no pacifists, I understand that war exists and will exists but even in war one can follow basic ethical practices, best example I can give you is that India-Pakistan fought many wars and many smaller skirmishes but both countries never indulge into senseless bombings of civilians areas, or set up torture camps like Abu Gharib like America did, or Israel is doing. Pakistan often get attacked from Afghanistan, if Pakistan was as cruel as America or Israel they would carpet bomb Kunar and other border towns killing everything, and make no mistake Pakistan can do that, but because as bad as Pakistani's can be but at least Army is not cruel and they practice restrains.

one thing I learned when I moved here to US, when someone share they are or were part of Armed forces and served, people respond like " Thank you for your services ", I met a lot of former soldiers who served but I never thank them for their service and one time one guy asked me why you don't thank that " XYZ " person for their service, I said they day US troops fight to defend their homeland, and country within their own borders I will support them, thank them for their service but I will not thank them for their time in Iraq or Libya or other war torn countries, because I think USA and its armed forces were wrong and they have committed war crimes during their time, of course not everyone goes out and shoot to kill, some were logistics and truck drives or base defense and I am not against them, but USA mere presence in countries make people scared and uncomfortable, hence my Disagreement. And, If I saw Pakistan army invade Afghanistan, hold their land, kill their civilians I will be as critical as I am, like I said many times I have certain values which I hold dear and anyone regardless of their nationality, color, race or religion if they do things which are against those values I will not support them and will be critical of them, which Is my right as human being. I criticized Pakistan Army when I was still in Pakistan, and I criticize US Army as now I am here, that doesn't mean I hate people or believe in senseless or meaningless revenge attacks, I believe that things can change by education of People, and I hope things change here in USA, cause if I live here and have a family, build a house, and have my future, I want my kids to live in a better America which respect other sovereignty, and their right of self determination rather than being a bully who threaten half the world of destruction because they wants to protect a illegal satellite state.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Ahhh......very nice. Another one from Karachi. One the other forum, our resident Pakistani (there may be more, I don't know) lives in Karachi too. I would actually like to visit Karachi.

If you have a choice, go to Austin. Not St. Louis unless you like cold miserable winters which you probably don't because you're from Karachi.

You're kind of not answering my question; at least not directly. For every individual who says they served, there are 4 or 5 or more who chose not share unless someone asks. And, those who served in a combat role don't go around openly sharing war stories. Only those who have been in that position can understand why. As in my own case, how do you respond when your granddaughter asks "grandpa, were you in a war?"

I'm a little jaded for a reason but do not assume I am some mindless sheep who gets off shooting people for no good reason.

 

[LeGenD]

PRC was estalished in late 1949 with over half of China not being under its control, DPRK was established in 1948. What kind of support PRC can give DPRK when China itself was in the thick of a civil war?

Soviet Union had a major role in developing North Korean Army in the 1940s:

The Korean War, like many wars in history, did not take place in a vacuum. It broke out because the North Koreans attacked South Korea with confidence that they could win the war and communize the entire Korean peninsula. North Korean confidence to win the fighting against the South was based not on hope but on high confidence that North Korean forces were able to secure an easy victory in the war. In fact, the North Korean forces were far superior to those of the South in all possible categories of the fighting capabilities and abilities. They were fully armed with heavy weapons and equipment supplied by the Soviet Union, well trained by the prudent guidance of Soviet military education and training advisers, greatly reinforced with the Korean soldiers and combat leadership, well-matured in the Chinese Civil War (1927-1949) period, and given a coordinated fighting plan prepared by the Soviet military war-planning advisers. Having judged from the facts, North Korea and its sponsors, the Soviet Union and Communist China, anticipated an easy victory over South Korea, provided that the United States would not rapidly intervene with its forces. With these expectations and anxieties, North Korea attacked South Korea on June 25, 1950, which became the immediate and direct cause of the Korean War. - Link

The PLA Fourth Field Army was also involved in providing manpower to (and share its experience with) the North Korean Army in 1949 under the Chinese People's Volunteers (CPV) framework. It fought for the North Korean Army throughout the Korean War.