Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

your idea is wrong ....
We should spend our money on our military force.
People kept asking why Iran is fighting in Syria, why arm Iraqis while our own border Guard lacks those MRAPs, why this, why that.....

When you bring your frontline inside your own territory, you have already brought war into your house. A2/AD Concept is not limited only to our home land. Think beyond borders
 
People kept asking why Iran is fighting in Syria, why arm Iraqis while our own border Guard lacks those MRAPs, why this, why that.....

When you bring your frontline inside your own territory, you have already brought war into your house. A2/AD Concept is not limited only to our home land. Think beyond borders
we spend more than 50 milliards over Syria, how many times we could rebuilt our air force and ground force with that money?
what was our achievement in Syria.
 
we spend more than 50 milliards over Syria, how many times we could rebuilt our air force and ground force with that money?
what was our achievement in Syria.
You ask these questions becauae you fail to see beyond your nose.

Whnever you understand how and why ISIS was formed and by whom, you can answer yourself without my help.
 
You make very valid points and some are partially true indeed but I disagree with you concerning your description of the airforce being run by "politically appointed sycophants". Logically this flawed. These people are part and parcel of the same people making the great advances that you have already listed, and these advances are only the ones that are available to the public.

No they are not. Other forces made strides to the level that they are now showcasing their modern tech at global expos for exports. Look at where Iranian UCAVs, ADs, Missiles, Space, Navy is standing and where IRIAF is. IRIAF never got a sincere or visionary leader after the demise of General Sattari. Whatever local aviation sector Iran has (I posted a list on last page) started with him. After him General Shahsafi was good too, he is responsible for local sidewinder, PGM, F-14, F-4 upgradation programs. Rest were just clowns claiming 5th generation tech while their Kowsar program is stuck on assembly for 7 years.

I think most can agree that the military aviation sector of Iran has taking a backseat to the other sectors. What I disagree with you is why. I for one believe that this has to do with a very prudent strategy and the realities in which Iran had/has to contend with. Iran couldn't/can't prioritise the airforce until Iran was actually safe from invasion. The country has some of the most brilliant planners I've ever come across in my long experience on this rock.

Iran saved itself from invasion by losing airforce? what sort of logic is this. Modern warfare revolves around controlling airspace within and beyond borders. Iranian IADS is top notch and has performed well but it cant replace the part IRIAF could have played had the force been kept at its former level.

Now that offence, land and sea missiles and drones, has pretty much been taken cared off, it seems the final piece of pussel is manned aviation. The geopolitical environment has changed to Iran's favour and this advantage has been taken with the purchase of the SU-35, with hopefully a very high degree of TOT. This will further advance sector at home. Let's be patient!

Ok but remember we are getting a 1970s airframe (Su-35S=Su-27M) with PESA radars whose hypothetical delivery will complete when our neighborhood will be full of 5th gen. Majority will be F-35s. Iran should have opted for SU-57 in exchange for whatever Russia needed from Iran.

Greetings.

I have long harbored the same sentiments.

In a previous post I also referred to the question of morale in the service. Job security, *job satisfaction* and promotion opportunities are just the flip side of the same coin.

IRIAF has been unlucky, its most capable officers either were victims of war, some were purged, the majority of US trained war veterans left the country in 90s/2000s. Today pilots are still highly skilled but administration wise the force is cooked due to massive corruption/inefficiency. They should have given it to IRGCAF years back.

And yes, I am still rooting for a LR-BVR with ARH, onboard ECCM and with a range of 150km.

The above-mentioned missile reminds very strongly of a LR-BVR that ticks all of these boxes, namely Fakour-90B/Maghsoud. The legacy Fakour-90 uses SARH.
Its size and weight will unfortunately severely limit which a/c will carry it.

Fakour-90 is gone the day F-14 fleet retires. There is reason only 100 Missiles were manufactured while the need for a fleet of 40 airframes should have been in excess of ~400. Lets see if and how many R-37 come with SU-35S fleet. Ideally the number should be as high as possible.

A missile that has been referred to in this forum as 'Arash' - a lightweight AIM-7E2 - should be pursued with the necessary zeal to make it available for deployment on medium and light a/c. Kudo's if Iran can pull such a round from the realms of vapor-ware to real-ware.

I am looking forward to see your list pertaining to aviation developments in Iran.

Piet

They should rather opt for additional numbers of R-77-1 or M if they can.

You are indeed right to showcase the significant achievements/capabilities in the manned aviation domain, be it avionics, weapons, engines and airframe systems, the biggest issue being that so far very little of that has been translated into effective operational deployment. Like in the past we're on the same page here. Would Khamenei and other top brass be so naive as to not realize what's been happening in the manned aviation sector?

Everyone knows but they are scared of disturbing the power balance by pointing out the corruption. In stiff systems like IRI, Khamenei has to keep different sections happy to stay in power. These power groups are often tied to cash embezzlement through meaningless defense projects/stunts so it is in favor of leadership to turn a blind eye to their antics. Why did leadership never ask for results of Azaraksh (3), Saeghe (6), and Kowsar (5) projects? Why Yasin failed (0), Why before that Tazarve (2) failed? why only handful F-14AM (2) were converted, why Dowran F-4 conversion could not be completed (36)? What happened to national heli ? what happened to Shahed-285 ? Khamenei won't ask because if he does, the corrupt power groups (in Artesh, IRGC, Majles etc) will get back at him. Its like a silent understanding that let me sit on top and I will allow you to be incompetent and corrupt.

As i suggested in the past, despite the institutional and corruption issues present, the best course of action would be to use the proverbial broom and sweep aside as much of the rot as they can, and just put in charge of the manned aviation sector whoever was behind the very comendable advances and achievements made in SAMs, BMs or drones and tell him "right, do as you did in your previous job and get the maximum possible result with these x resources" (i know it's more complicated due to internal competition/rivalries between the various institutions and power groups). Forget about new airframes for now beyond perhaps Yasin and perhaps a limited number of Kowsars, just upgrading with modern electronics, weapons and making fully combat ready the existing airframes would be a great start.

Half the problems will be solved the day a younger more energetic and less political minded Supreme leader will sit on the IRI's throne and hopefully drains the swamp. make no mistake, Iranian political system is corrupt to the core despite looking like "idealogical" from outside. Khamenei has been disastrous for Iranian deterrence in last 10 years through his dove like approaches towards enemies of Iran in name of non-existent Islamic unity and lack of balls to pursue nuclear weaponization. His policies resulted in Iran getting sanctioned, losing 50 Billion USD and lives for causes that meant nothing for Iran.


Incidentaly, when DDD made the video about a potential iranian 6th gen i was immediately sceptic of that possibility, but thinking of it, while airframe and engine technology is not available, Iran did prove it has developed the technology for AESA radars, active missile seekers as well as modern electronics, rocket motors, subsystems and airframe missile designs, all this available to being leveraged in creating competent airborne AESAs (MSAs like Bayyenat being increasingly obslete now), electronics and AAMs. So the capability is there, if only someone would leverage it properly!

The Iranian problem is not the tech, its actually the vicious cycle of political appointments of incompetent officers who produce ZERO results, so leadership cuts the budgets. I listed 2010s demonstrated capabilities of domestic production on the last page. Like I said before, any good leadership would have forced the IRIAF+IAIO to get 200 local F-20/FCK-1 equivalents as stopgap along with local LIFT/ATs while same time they would have been pursuing 5th gen tech from abroad either through TOTs or CKDs but these people have no vision.
 
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The big, biggest opportunity for Iran is the T-75.
The first two aircraft (one for flight testing, the other for ground) will be available this year.
If Iran wants production on its territory including ToT, there is no reason not to get it. It can start in the second half of the decade.
 
Deino, Rosobotonexport has prepared a legal and technological package in the event of successful negotiations with the UAE or India. The contract between MITRF and KnAAZ talks about the production of one flight prototype, which Kondratev says will be ready this year.

You probably have your own reasons to doubt that the Russians van handle to introduce the aircraft to the IOC in 5 years and prepare production abroad. But remember MKI. Everything is just a matter of money.

And, whether "EU" likes it or not, the current reconciliation of the US with Russia will accelerate this process even more.
 
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Greetings.

I have long harbored the same sentiments.

In a previous post I also referred to the question of morale in the service. Job security, *job satisfaction* and promotion opportunities are just the flip side of the same coin.

And yes, I am still rooting for a LR-BVR with ARH, onboard ECCM and with a range of 150km.

The above-mentioned missile reminds very strongly of a LR-BVR that ticks all of these boxes, namely Fakour-90B/Maghsoud. The legacy Fakour-90 uses SARH.
Its size and weight will unfortunately severely limit which a/c will carry it.

A missile that has been referred to in this forum as 'Arash' - a lightweight AIM-7E2 - should be pursued with the necessary zeal to make it available for deployment on medium and light a/c. Kudo's if Iran can pull such a round from the realms of vapor-ware to real-ware.

I am looking forward to see your list pertaining to aviation developments in Iran.

Piet

To be honest, 150 km from a Fakkour missile or the iirc 180km from Maghsoud are too little ranges for missiles of that size nowadays. Considering the ranges of the R-37, PL-17 or AIM-174, with modern rocket motors and modern electronics and perhaps a reduction in warhead size Iran should really get 250-300km from such large missiles. 150 should really be achievable by the relatively large Arash/AIM-7 when fitted with modern rocket motors and electronics.
Firstly my apologies for this late response.

Pertaining to the 150km Fakour and the 180km range Maghsoud. For sure these rounds have short legs compared to today's VLR AAM's.

For a R-37 (-M at least) a direct shot range is to 400km. Together with PL-17 & AIM-174 these three missiles are currently the three 'up there' VLR AAM's.

It will not be unheard of to increase Fakour and Maghsouds range to 250 - 300km, for the reasons you noted above.

A better candidate would be Arash/AIM-7. I see no problems for such a missile to hit the 150km mark. Look what GIDS have been showing, resembling the 'AIM-7. It should however be noted that the FAAZ-2 shown below could just be an artists rendition.

For purposes of comparison, AIM-7E2 has a L=3.7m, D=200mm, W=230kg, and a range of ~45km.

However, the point is made.

1739715062997.png

The entire bug in this scenario is that the Fakours and R-37 (-M) missiles are too large for 'ordinary' fighters. Carried only by F-14 as long as its flies. And of course *possibly* by SU-35 as well.

However, given the schlep of mating Flanker and Fakour et al, would be unnecessary if R-37-(M) are indeed supplied with the Flankers.

A range of ~200km should really be quite possible even for a lightweight 'AMRAAM-sized' Arash/AIM-7.

Such as K-77M below.

1739717043884.png
No source available at the time of posting.

L= Marginally less than 4m, D= 0.20m, W=190kg, M=4, R ≤200km.

If Russia is willing to export R-37 to Iran, then the case for K-77M also being exported to Iran, is strong.

Piet
 

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Deino, Rosobotonexport has prepared a legal and technological package in the event of successful negotiations with the UAE or India. The contract between MITRF and KnAAZ talks about the production of one flight prototype, which Kondratev says will be ready this year.

You probably have your own reasons to doubt that the Russians van handle to introduce the aircraft to the IOC in 5 years and prepare production abroad. But remember MKI. Everything is just a matter of money.

Thanks for the update, but I highly question - in fact deny - that the UAE or India is involved in anything related to the Su-75. A flight -ready prototype might be indeed possible, but NEVER EVER "IOC in 5 years".

And, whether "EU" likes it or not, the current reconciliation of the US with Russia will accelerate this process even more.

The the EU is internationally more or less irrelevant, I'm fully aware, but that does not mean - esp. in mind of the Su-57 since years - this would go faster with the Su-75.

let's wait and see since it is indeed a most interesting concept.
 
I don't want to be a doomsday prophet, but it would be better to be prepared! The USA has delivered the GBU-43/B MOAB bombs to Israel. The good news is that not everything can be delivered. As far as I know, they are usually used against tunnel systems, so Gaza, Lebanon, Iran could be targets. Mostly the first two. In addition, there is a big mobilization in Israel secretly. So they are preparing for something big.
 
And, whether "EU" likes it or not, the current reconciliation of the US with Russia will accelerate this process even more.

I don't agree. How the hell a reconciliación between Russia and US would boost the manufacturing, testing and FAL construction for a new assembly line of a absolute new aircraft?. This is not a MKI or MKK that was just a new versión. It is a brand new not still built aircraft.

I think you're confussing a deal between US and Russia (a kind of Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) with a sanctions relief or a trade agreement. US are not interested in ease the introduction of an aircraft that would be considerable better than their mighty F35.
 
Thanks for the update, but I highly question - in fact deny - that the UAE or India is involved in anything related to the Su-75. A flight -ready prototype might be indeed possible, but NEVER EVER "IOC in 5 years".



The the EU is internationally more or less irrelevant, I'm fully aware, but that does not mean - esp. in mind of the Su-57 since years - this would go faster with the Su-75.

let's wait and see since it is indeed a most interesting concept.
No, Deino. Neither the UAE nor India are involved in the LTS program (although Rostec has previously held talks with Tawazun and Edge).
The point is that Rosoboronexport wants to sell the T-75 (or "Su-75") at any price, and the new situation will help this, since the US will probably relax some sanctions and not apply CAATSA so strictly, allowing Russia to get capital for financing (and speeding up some projects).
A typical example is the sale of Su-57E to Algeria, when Trump's inauguration was awaited. He is a businessman and selling Felons to Algeria is convenient for him (now there is a taxpayer in Morocco who will question the necessity of buying F-35?).
With sufficient capital and minimization of sanctions restrictions, Rostec can realize the LTS as quickly as the Koreans' KF-21.
 
Iranian IADS is top notch and has performed well but it cant replace the part IRIAF could have played had the force been kept at its former level.
The part that has been uppermost in my mind is that the greater part of its long range fixed radars will be knocked out pre-emptively. This has already happened and is indicative of what would happen immediately before an massive uber strike on very sensitive Iranian targets.

I have previously posted that missile TELS, firing vertical from TELS, could be incorporated within the existing armored 'belt' protecting such VHT's. A radar was also shown. For various reasons this idea did not gain traction.

Another answer may be the building and operation of 'AEW' UAV's. And mind you, in generous numbers.

1739817238690.png

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Mar 25, 2023.

Notional image of an Iranian ‘AEW’ drone.

Ok but remember we are getting a 1970s airframe (Su-35S=Su-27M) with PESA radars whose hypothetical delivery will complete when our neighborhood will be full of 5th gen. Majority will be F-35s. Iran should have opted for SU-57 in exchange for whatever Russia needed from Iran.
They should have said yes, but the political and financial environment was totally not geared for something like this then.

Depending on the number of 5thgen a/c in service up yonder, Iran should consider how India is upgrading its Flankers. Of course this still does not qualify as being a 5thgen a/c, but one that will be able to rise to the challenge especially when taking vantages of India's (and Iran's)AIDS. Whether fixed, land or air mobile
IRIAF has been unlucky, its most capable officers either were victims of war, some were purged, the majority of US trained war veterans left the country in 90s/2000s. Today pilots are still highly skilled but administration wise the force is cooked due to massive corruption/inefficiency. They should have given it to IRGCAF years back.

Fakour-90 is gone the day F-14 fleet retires.
Definitely.
They should rather opt for additional numbers of R-77-1 or M if they can.
R-77M... . Regard its active phased array antenna (APAA) guidance system, designed to minimize a targets efforts to evade this missile at extreme ranges.
Khamenei won't ask because if he does, the corrupt power groups (in Artesh, IRGC, Majles etc) will get back at him. Its like a silent understanding that let me sit on top and I will allow you to be incompetent and corrupt.
An unhealthy state of affairs. Just hope that this does not develop into something that is
intolerable to stomach by Iran.


The Iranian problem is not the tech, its actually the vicious cycle of political appointments of incompetent officers who produce ZERO results, so leadership cuts the budgets. I listed 2010s demonstrated capabilities of domestic production on the last page. Like I said before, any good leadership would have forced the IRIAF+IAIO to get 200 local F-20/FCK-1 equivalents as stopgap along with local LIFT/ATs
I would agree with the local F-20/FCK-1 equivalents, given a modern AESA radar, at *least* 2 or four AIM-7 lightweight Arash VLR AAM's, modern EC/CM suite etc.
 
The part that has been uppermost in my mind is that the greater part of its long range fixed radars will be knocked out pre-emptively. This has already happened and is indicative of what would happen immediately before an massive uber strike on very sensitive Iranian targets.

I have previously posted that missile TELS, firing vertical from TELS, could be incorporated within the existing armored 'belt' protecting such VHT's. A radar was also shown. For various reasons this idea did not gain traction.

Another answer may be the building and operation of 'AEW' UAV's. And mind you, in generous numbers.

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Mar 25, 2023.

Notional image of an Iranian ‘AEW’ drone.


I wrote here before that F-14A's AWG-9 has been completely upgraded as AWG-9+ in F-14AM upgradation with full digitalization and parts replacement to APG-71 standard (300 KM Search range). Its longer-ranged AESA antenna variant (~600 KM Search range) can be integrated on Sahed-149 Gaza HALE as radome or in the belly. Such an unmanned AWACS at 50K feet minimizes radar horizion problems and will provide 24/7 persistent wide area surveillance in the form of datalinks to IADS and IRIAF. 15-20 x such systems can even form distributed AWACS Sensory network (DASN) operating inside and around Iranian airspace that is guarded by IADS and IRIAF. MALE/HALE UCAVs are becoming more and more vulnerable though with the advancement of SAMs but its cost will be like 1/100th of what a modern AWACS costs and there is no human life involved.

They should have said yes, but the political and financial environment was totally not geared for something like this then.

IRIAF bozos do not understand modern air power and are not interested in it. In order to look competitive in front of other rapidly modernising Iranian military branches, they would rather showcase PR stunts.

Depending on the number of 5thgen a/c in service up yonder, Iran should consider how India is upgrading its Flankers. Of course this still does not qualify as being a 5thgen a/c, but one that will be able to rise to the challenge especially when taking vantages of India's (and Iran's)AIDS. Whether fixed, land or air mobile

Flanker including the modern variants like J-16 or Su-35S have an inherently large RCS. A basic Su-27 is like 10-15 m2. RAM cant bring down the RCS like magic, its mostly for just minimal reduction after airframe design. Considering the airframe of SU-35S is an SU-27K the plane will be searched and tracked by fifth-gen from probably 200+ KM away esp when its carrying a package of R-37/27/77 or PGMs. Over Persian Gulf it wont even be able to hide in terrain masking. It won't be invading any enemy territory like what Israel is doing with its F-35. In return, its IRBIS-E PESA would not do the same for a stealth enemy so the pilot has to rely upon IRST+WVR package which means a death sentence at BVR against F-22/35 and even SU-57/J-35.

IRIAF needs SU-35S/30SM2 in high numbers, probably like 150 with TOT because Russian plants cant produce this much high numbers. Meanwhile IRIAF should chase SU-57 because post peace deal Russia will no longer be giving it to Iran. They might even halt the Yak and Sukhoi tranfers.

R-77M... . Regard its active phased array antenna (APAA) guidance system, designed to minimize a targets efforts to evade this missile at extreme ranges.

An unhealthy state of affairs. Just hope that this does not develop into something that is
intolerable to stomach by Iran.



I would agree with the local F-20/FCK-1 equivalents, given a modern AESA radar, at *least* 2 or four AIM-7 lightweight Arash VLR AAM's, modern EC/CM suite etc.

IMO local AIM-7 should be ditched in favor of more R-77, more than what SU-35S and MIG fleet will require. It will be a waste of time project considering its only user will be a hypothetical Kowsar fleet in future. There is a reason we are not seeing Maghsoud after Fakour-90's production as the F-14 fleet is going to be retired. With Kowsar project gone to bin, the AIM-7 Arash project wont leave the mockups either. Azarakhsh (AIM-9X equivalent) got its life through Airdefence otherwise same would have happened to it as well.
 

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