POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

[hussain0216]

Pakistan has no answer to the conventional inventory of Air & ground launched conventional missiles the Indian army/air force has accumulated i.e Brahmos (both air & ground launch 500km + range) Paralay (Ground launched ballistic missile with a large conventional payload, range 500km)

It is starting to make sense why Pakistan did not retaliate with Babur, Raad 2. These are purely kept for non conventional, i.e nuclear strikes.

So the next best thing they could do was shoot Fatah 1 & 2 both respectively ranging from 140km to 400km range. But this is not enough neither is or will be a deterrent to ward off more Brahmos/Indian conventional firepower salvos.

Time we start taking things seriously & either develop or take missiles from China that you can rework to fit your needs:

500km-1200km supersonic & subsonic CONVENTIONAL missiles, with both air & ground launch capabilities.

800km-1500km conventional ballistic missile inventory enough to deter Indian miscalculations deep inside India.

This should be a clear no bullshit cut plan for Pakistan military.

Fatah 1 and 2 are some serious offensive options, they are not small crackers

It was early in the escalation and they were the correct options to use against India

Babur and raad are also not only nuclear capable options, and if they war continued they would have been used

But why use baburs when fatah 2 is perfect for the job?

 

[Arsenal Caan]

My view on the recent Indo-Pakistan conflict and its wider implications.

◆ India has lost air cover for at least a decade. I'm not sure whether they'll be buying more Rafales in the future. Remember, they inked a deal worth $7.8 billion on April 28 for 26 Rafales for the Indian Navy—sheesh!
◆ There will be increased insurgency in India, not only in J&K but also in the 7 Sister states. India has a stated policy that any terrorism on Indian soil will be considered an act of war, with retaliation against terror groups and their perpetrators. After the recent Pakistan-India clash, India will lose deterrence. It will be interesting to see how India responds to these militant attacks.
◆ Public frustration in India will grow due to the inability to subdue Pakistan. This will likely lead to electoral setbacks for the BJP, beginning with Bihar.
◆ Pakistan will carry out significant military build-ups in:
  a) Air defense
  b) Naval power
  c) Deep-strike capabilities
◆ The Bangladesh Air Force will acquire J-10Cs. Even one squadron will be sufficient to challenge India’s Eastern Command and shift regional dynamics.
◆ China will revive its “Five Fingers” doctrine—Tibet as the palm and Ladakh, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan, and Arunachal Pradesh as fingers—aiming for expanded territorial influence.
◆ Middle Eastern countries, especially Egypt, will pivot away from the US and embrace China as their primary defense supplier, accelerating a shift in global alliances.
◆ The IDF cannot allow a strong army with beyond-visual-range (BVR) capability in its neighborhood. Expect things to heat up between Israel and Egypt.
◆ Pakistan will eliminate the menace of terrorism and make serious economic progress. It will emerge as a regional security guarantor.
◆ The region will experience a few years of relative calm, but this will serve only as a pause before a decisive and potentially large-scale conflict.

 

[Michael]

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Intact SCALP with seeker and detonation head. Very useful for PLA unlike the exploded 'intact' Chinese missile they claim to have..lolol

No
According to some people's thinking logic. This is the wreckage of the missile. The picture of the PL-15E is an "intact missile". LOL

So are we doing reverse engineering and the missile ready in 3 years? Lol

There is little point in reverse engineering it. We have better weapons.

But, we can study it. For example:
Try to hack its communication system so that we can develop something new to jam or penetrate it in the future. When the IAF uses it again, we can intercept the communication between it and the guidance radar, causing it to lose the target or redirect it to where we want it to go.

Agree with battle assesment part but you do not have sats and your hands are tied unless china give you army level of access to their own network which i do not know is realistic

Do you think the military attachés in the Chinese Embassy in Pakistan went to the Pakistan Air Force Command empty-handed?

Pakistan's official statement has clearly mentioned that they informed China of all actions in a timely manner.
As an official agency, it will certainly not explicitly state that China is providing intelligence support to Pakistan. But anyone who is slightly familiar with international politics can understand the meaning of this sentence.

Don't worry.
The commander of the PAF is fully aware of the real situation of the war. They also have complete intelligence information provided by China. However, we will not agree that they will release this information now (which is equivalent to publicly admitting that China is directly involved in this air battle).

After a period of time after the incident, these materials will be gradually made public.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Agree! Pakistan took a long time to finally get a long-range AA system. Now Pakistan should buy some more systems as soon as possible and not worry about expenses. From Turkey? From China? From both? But fast. This will boost the nation's morale even more and reduce the Indians' confidence.

wasting too much resources on AD is a bad idea IMO, for all the high density AD systems Israel had, still got fully penetrated by Iran twice, Pakistan should focus on hitting high value targets deep inside India, offense is the only way to make self grandized indians to think twice

 

[Foinikas]

wasting too much resources on AD is a bad idea IMO, for all the high density AD systems Israel had, still got fully penetrated by Iran twice, Pakistan should focus on hitting high value targets deep inside India, offense is the only way to make self grandized indians to think twice

Not too much resources for a country like Pakistan. I think 2-3 new systems wouldn't be bad.

 

[Ali_Baba]

They way that the cruise missiles and drones were wizzing around Pakistan was of concern esp in the rear. While PAF may look to beef up capacity(ie current capabilities work but there is not enough of them) and find new solutions to gaps that were exposed, it should also look at physical security as a means of minimising the impact of cruise missiles.

Platforms are most vulnerable when they are on the ground and can be targeted, so PAF should look towards underground facilities at its bases to host very critical platforms between missions, ie blinders squadron and the Erieyes. Israel does this with its F35s which are housed underground, so are much more difficult to both target and destroy. Maybe use some of those mountain ranges to build airbases into them like Iran has shown recently.

PAF should continue its policy of moving airbases out of population centres as they are difficult to defend in such dense urban surroundings.

There is the temptation to of course purchase lots of new expensive IADS equipment, and that may be the solution but there also more cost effective solutions.

Pakistan does need some equivalent of the Brahmos, it was India’s best asset for sure.

There is the kinetic defensive equipment like IADS and systems like Iron dome, but there is also physical security measures which may be cheaper for Pakistan to do.

India will look to press home its advantage in drones and cruise missiles against Pakistans rear for sure and as always Pakistan has no money to do much in terms of procurements.

India called off its operation only when it went into crazy man mode, and there has to be a lesson in that for the decision making cycle in Pakistan. They spent far to much time trying to calibrate the exact same response back to India versus we’ll just hitting them back and blowing stuff up that will hurt India for them to knock things off.

The boys and girls in the Pakistan Armed Forces did a fantastic job, let’s recognise that but as always there is time and space to learn and improve.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

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Indian cope is funny

 

[Sharma Ji]

@Oscar sb

No two opinions about it. I wish my qaum could learn humor and humility from your nation, especially the Punjabis. I am sorry to say that most of my online countrymen, particularly my fellow Bhakts are a humorless, crass and bilious lot.

Regards

I never figured you for a gaddar aadmi

you blacklisted now

no regards

 

[Rational Philosopher]

What made india go berserk and attack our bases in the middle of night, we hadn't even retaliated to their initial strikes and drone incursions.

You humiliated their air force in front of the world.

 

[Watandar]

wasting too much resources on AD is a bad idea IMO, for all the high density AD systems Israel had, still got fully penetrated by Iran twice, Pakistan should focus on hitting high value targets deep inside India, offense is the only way to make self grandized indians to think twice

Agree, and the high value targets should be of an economic nature, not military. India cares deepest about its economic trajectory and catching all the factories that West is forcing to move out of China via its trade war.

 

[Distant_Observer]

They should have struck a major factory near Delhi and destroyed investor confidence just like they did to us through terrorism.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

the high value targets should be of an economic nature, not military.

Why not both? Hit their steel mills, preferably the one in Gujarat

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The F-16 upgrade would be awesome, but I just feel India would kick up a huge fuss.

F16 Scares India so we can just get J10C
More acquisition of F16 did cause a lot off noise between 80's and 90's

 

[Tornado]

F16 Scares India so we can just get J10C
More acquisition of F16 did cause a lot off noise between 80's and 90's

The most advanced fighter jet shot down by f16 is syrian mig 29 by israelis,in other words downgraded junk. Most f16 kills are against 3rd generation aircraft by those american thugs in gulf, in other words those kills are hardly impressive

The most advanced fighter jet ever shot down is the rafale by J10


Also this is what pakistan needs to do even if you improve air defence

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Pakistan needs to start improving missiles like iran, and start making and relying on drones more.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Some things that Pakistan should immediately look into following the 2025 skirmish – [obviously all subject to economic realities, which should be #1 priority by default]:

— Militarise Balochistan province given its strategic depth vis-a-vis India; underground air bases and missile bases.

— Invest in an economical yet reliable integrated air defence system that can better protect your critical infrastructure including air bases in partnership with China.

— Massively expand our tactical missile options; precise & manoeuvrable warheads that can reliably hit targets deep into Indian territory. Work on true hypersonic GVs, supersonic long range cruise missiles.

— Refine & improve our long-range strategic missiles so they're survivable – MIRVs, second-strike capability. We ideally need something that is around ~4000km in range.

— Locally produced reliable cheap suicide munitions that can be used for saturation attacks.

— Stop ignoring the Navy. Expand the number of AIP equipped submarines to at least 12 total. More frigates. Look into SSBNs.

— Air Force is the backbone, needs to remain well-funded, well-trained via Shaheen exercises, and remain professional. Work on retaining the EW, AEWACS, BVR edge you have.

Note: Israel arguably has one of the most dense and most advanced air defence systems in the world, yet Iran was able to penetrate through it. Realistically, no air defence will ever be fool proof against a well-armed military. This is why deterrence/proportionate retaliation is extremely important.

@Oscar @FuturePAF @arslank01 @Quwa