Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[falcon34]

Developing Brahmos like solution needs almost whole new line of R&D infrastructure that may be really expensive for Pakistan so clearly a no go.
From this stand off;
We can conclude that Pakistan has done quite good against brahmos.
According to @Oscar ,Pak achieved almost 66% interception rate against Brahmos.
From OSINTs,
One brahmos was intercepted through Hard kill over Jacobabad.
Second one through hard kill near Shorkot

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One crashed near Sundar Industrial State - soft kill

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One crashed in Jay Singh Wala village

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So Brahmos is not something out of this world that can't be intercepted.It can be and Pakistan has demonstrated this capability though thicker AD network is required to thwart Saturation Attack.
Our problem is not Brahmos.It's Saturation Attack where we struggle.

Our way forward is to increase the production of Fatah series missiles.If you look at the angle of attack of these missiles, it's almost 45 degree.That's clear indication that our missiles are following depressed trajectory.There may be room for further refinement and that's where our focus should be instead of opening Pandora box of whole lot of new complexities.

Agreed production needs to be scaled for F series especially that of F2 and F4.
Smart and longer range CMs like sarfarosh need to be inducted in 1000s. Those are really cheaper long range CMs. Also a few more regiments of conventional strike baburs would be good, currently inventory is adequate last I read was of an Indian analyst his article was of around late 10s he claimed pak had been inducting 1 battery i.e six launch vehicle every yr since 2006, which makes it 19 batteries till 2025 and 6 regiments of Babur cruise missiles even if just 2 of these are reserved for conventional meaning 38 launch vehicles with close to a thousand missiles that's a huge capability even for late 10s. None the less we need yiha, blaze and sarfarosh kinda of kamikaze canister launched solutions which are survivable cheaper and can be fired in hundreds in a single volley. The rest of it will be taken by F series whose should be extended to 12 hundred and 15 hundred kms respectively, than truly we would be able to slit up India. Next round would be worth watching pakis will bring this kamikaze solution and most probably F series of missiles into play in the Next round
This round to me looked Pakistanis didn't wanted escalate they are preparing for something when that's done and the above mentioned solutions are expect the Pakistanis to Bizark on India. Give them a few yrs.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Dude what ya smoking,
It's 150kg for F1 and 365kg for F2View attachment 121912

50m CEP is quite large these days. Pakistan needs to focus on platforms that can have the same type of CEP as the Storm Shadow missiles which have a CEP of 1m !!!!!!!! That kind of precision helps take out runways, bridges and other targets that need precision to be taken out. 50m CEP is not precise enough to hit anything other than large structures like buildings, or ammo-silos ( it may be the intended use case originally ).

 

[falcon34]

Can you provide some OSINT details of this incident ?
I'm not really aware of this incident

I tried looking but F2s were not fired at all, All the missiles on panjab and Jammu side were fired from kharian, haven't seen a single video and those in the army clearly say only F1s were fired, most of deep strikes were conducted by PAF.

 

[falcon34]

50m CEP is quite large these days. Pakistan needs to focus on platforms that can have the same type of CEP as the Storm Shadow missiles which have a CEP of 1m !!!!!!!! That kind of precision helps take out runways, bridges and other targets that need precision to be taken out. 50m CEP is not precise enough to hit anything other than large structures like buildings, or ammo-silos ( it may be the intended use case originally ).

That's the export version, you have seen the test footage CEP is less than 5 metres

 

[Bilal]

Fattah 1 and 2 GMRLS warhead weight is 18kg. Yes its 18kg these are rockets not missiles.

yes it would with current limited numbers we did well.

You are mixing it with 122mm yarmook rocket. F1 has 150kg (minimum) warhead, F2 is even heavier, at 350kg.

Below is Janes reporting on it:

 

[TallGuy]

You are mixing it with 122mm yarmook rocket. F1 has 150kg (minimum) warhead, F2 is even heavier, at 350kg.

Below is Janes reporting on it:
View attachment 121919

Thank you! i am grateful

 

[Bilal]

Thank you! i am grateful

My pleasure bro! 18kg is the exact number for 122mm yarmook rocket btw.

 

[falcon34]

Sure, but I also think fatahs systems are great, fast, large warhead, destructive

We also stopped a number of brahmos missiles, nothing is fool proof

We just need to build up numbers
Fatah 3 has just been tested
Fatah 4 is probably a year or two away
Fatah 2 was only revealed about a year ago

So our numbers are limited, once we ramp up production for a few years and increase the amount of launchers then it's going to be a lethal mobile system

S400 would have got a few hits that too on drones and loitering munitions even indias western command claimed downing of drones with S400, Indian bases were hit, my theory we hit critical C&C infra of Indian bases everyone been looking for craters in the runway no bothered looking around associated buildings. Even with limited use of weaponry we dealt alot of damage, imagine if F1,2,3&4series, Sarfirosh, blaze, Babur, Raad, boosted REK and the newer turbo jet powered Glide bombs. It indians would be sitting ducks, as I said before wait for third round!!!.

 

[hussain0216]

S400 would have got a few hits that too on drones and loitering munitions even indias western command claimed downing of drones with S400, Indian bases were hit, my theory we hit critical C&C infra of Indian bases everyone been looking for craters in the runway no bothered looking around associated buildings. Even with limited use of weaponry we dealt alot of damage, imagine if F1,2,3&4series, Sarfirosh, blaze, Babur, Raad, boosted REK and the newer turbo jet powered Glide bombs. It indians would be sitting ducks, as I said before wait for third round!!!.

Pakistan is really ramping up, we need another 5-10 years

Blaze series
Sarkash drones
Fatah series
FAAZ 1/2
Navy and subs expansion and all kitted out
J35s
pFX


Things are in the works, that would make attacking Pakistan a deadly mistake for anyone

 

[Bilal]

I have said this before in other threads.

Pakistan needs to adopt F1 and F2 into air launched version much like rampage and Lora (albm version).

In addition, we should go for localization of YJ12 much like india did with yakhoont.

Secondly, I do agree we have to up our game in MARV and quasi ballistic missile.

Another technology that should be looked into is MALD type decoys.

 

[Baibers_1260]

I have said this before in other threads.

Pakistan needs to adopt F1 and F2 into air launched version much like rampage and Lora (albm version).

In addition, we should go for localization of YJ12 much like india did with yakhoont.

Secondly, I do agree we have to up our game in MARV and quasi ballistic missile.

Another technology that should be looked into is MALD type decoys.

Russian videos released show Iskander strikes. How do the Russians do this? Do they first send an observation drone and then fire an Iskander on the co-ordinates ? Both India and Pakistan have only released social media videos from the ground taken by civilians using mobile phones, Actual military strikes footage from above released by USA, Russia, Israel, (and even in short range strikes by Ukraine ) is almost immediately released as proof of the hits. These videos show precise hits by missiles and FAB glide bombs leaving no room for doubt. I think MQ-9 drones, (and their Russian equivalents) are used to film the strikes from extremely high altitudes

 

[Bilal]

Russian videos released show Iskander strikes. How do the Russians do this? Do they first send an observation drone and then fire an Iskander on the co-ordinates ? Both India and Pakistan have only released social media videos from the ground taken by civilians using mobile phones, Actual military strikes footage from above released by USA, Russia, Israel, (and even in short range strikes by Ukraine ) is almost immediately released as proof of the hits. These videos show precise hits by missiles and FAB glide bombs leaving no room for doubt. I think MQ-9 drones, (and their Russian equivalents) are used to film the strikes from extremely high altitudes

Yes, they have a ton of UAVs flying over there.

 

[Bentley777]

Dude we didn't even use F2s and indians are already crying, all the damage was done by F1s.
If Indians are accepting damages on 4 airbases, than it mean rest were hit too. Pak generals just showed too much restraint. We should have used Raad, Babur, and Shaheen 1As to strike deep inside India, hate 'em for not doing that, it would have given indians some PTSDS.
And they are conventional types of these missiles, they are not solely reserved for nuclear strikes.

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Fatah 1, 2 is not an missile its a rocket type system secondly they attacked bases and we showed restraint because we had no options logically noor khan was last nail in the coffin what were we waiting for nuclear strikes? .

 

[Bentley777]

Developing Brahmos like solution needs almost whole new line of R&D infrastructure that may be really expensive for Pakistan so clearly a no go.
From this stand off;
We can conclude that Pakistan has done quite good against brahmos.
According to @Oscar ,Pak achieved almost 66% interception rate against Brahmos.
From OSINTs,
One brahmos was intercepted through Hard kill over Jacobabad.
Second one through hard kill near Shorkot

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

One crashed near Sundar Industrial State - soft kill

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

One crashed in Jay Singh Wala village

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

So Brahmos is not something out of this world that can't be intercepted.It can be and Pakistan has demonstrated this capability though thicker AD network is required to thwart Saturation Attack.
Our problem is not Brahmos.It's Saturation Attack where we struggle.

Our way forward is to increase the production of Fatah series missiles.If you look at the angle of attack of these missiles, it's almost 45 degree.That's clear indication that our missiles are following depressed trajectory.There may be room for further refinement and that's where our focus should be instead of opening Pandora box of whole lot of new complexities.

Nobody is talking about if Brahmos can be intercepted or not. Point was did we hit their hanger answer is no because we don't have same missile like brahmos so our offensive was weak in nature that is totally wrong because we will be too defensive and will take more hits which has happened clearly. Our AD was weak because we were just defending didnot fire same category missiles back its simple. AS far as RND is concerned when will you do it in 2050 absolutely laughable need is today as far as expensive is concerned its a potent system so it will be expensive war are not fought only on the bases of cost effectiveness only you got to have game changing system which can put back enemy on back foot. Brahmos like system is absolutely a "GO GO"

 

[Bentley777]

Fattah is battlefield MLRS nothing more than that with large CEP it has no role for precision strikes it can support forces in an offensive on land nothing more than that. If fattah 4 is really 700km+ may be it can do precision strikes but its in development. No point making it in numbers in limited conflict its has no role infact because there was no fight on land apart from artillery fire. PA, PAF, PN needs a supersonic cruise missile like brahmos, yj 12 and ballistic missile marv like iran have cheap. Cruise missile is a must need for precision strikes on their air bases. And ballistics missile for SEAD roles and DEAD too