Ukrainian drones hit a significant amount of Tu-95MS, Tu-22 M33 and A-50s(reportedly 40+ in total)

This is from your quote:

While that include military death, the number OHCHR reported usually was wrong (usually by a factor of 1/4, read Gaza Casualty) Ukrainian official figure have that up to 300,000 civilian casualty (Dead and Wounded), most humanitarian organisations estimated between 40000 to 100,000 and UN renewed report put it between 13000 to 40000

Nobody trusts Ukrainian official figures. We all know how the world turned upside down in the first few weeks of Russian invasion: worldwide media tantrum, Russia getting sanctioned all over the place, global institutions which are supposed to stay out of controversy (e.g. sports organizations) jumped in with chest thumping. All these organizations are not bothered about Israel's genocide.

US, Europe, and Israel have been massacring hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, Africa for decades and it didn't bother anybody. But a few hundred people killed in Europe became a global catastrophe. Everything about the Ukraine war is hyped up by the Western media and it has lost all credibility.

I know it sounds racist but the global media puts European civilian deaths above other deaths around the world. Russia has been treating Ukraine with kid gloves compared to how it deliberately bombed civilians in Asia. I used to work with a Russian guy who bragged how his dad's unit dropped poison in Afghan rivers upstream from villages.
First of all, let's get one thing and one thing very straight. The MOST civilian casualty Russian/Soviet Union EVER created is not on some brown Muslim. It's going to be European, and if we classified by their religion, it's going to be more Christian being killed than Jew, then Muslim

The single most Civilian Casualty event the Russian did to is Jew, it's pogrom is on par, if not exceeded Germany's Final Resolution, simply because it spanned over 50 years instead of 7, and that is the reason why Jew moved to Israel, it was started by the 1 million or so Russian Jew that space Russia.


Then the second most civilian casualty the Russian cause is no doubt toward the German, Pole and Hungarian during WW2, there are no war in this world created more civilian casualty than WW2. And Russia is a big part of that. War in Afghanistan (both US or Russian version) Chechen, Albanian Masscare or even Rwanda Genocide is only a fraction of the civilian casualty, in fact, I am not even sure if we add those numbers together will ever exceed that number, and Russia had not particip[ate in any theatre other than European Threatre

Those are when Russia are the most Brutal both in war and in civility

And finally as I said, civilian casualty is hardly a measure on how brutal or how indiscriminate a war is, again, that's from a few different factor, for example, war in Vietnam will always have less civilian casualty than what the Israeli was doing in Gaza., not because of the American are less brutal toward the Vietnamese, but because VIetnam is a bigger country than Gaza, and people have room to move around, if you talk about the two war, the rules of engagement are similar because that was the war when US last have free fire zone, which mean you can indiscriminately attack Civilian population, we cant do that afterward, as we need to PID our target, and that is exactly the same rules of engagement the Israel had in Gaza. So if you ask me, both war have the same brutality., but vietnam civilian casualty is a lot smaller, you are looking at around 500,000 vietnamese civilian casualty in that 10 years war, to around 200,000 Gazan in that 2 years conflict.

And no, there are nothing Russian can do outside what they are doing now, because that warfare Russian is fighting in Ukraine is the least technological advance, that is WW1 and WW2 era warfare, if they have a choice they won't pump people like they were fighting in trench back in WW1. So no, there are no "If Russian is serious then......." You are not fighting WW1 and WW2 style unless you are dead set serious, in fact, it was so serious the last time the Russian fighting like they do now is when Germany was at the doorstep of Moscow, you have to be really serious to put resource and fight like they do back in WW1 and WW2. It's me saying "Hey, I want to fight like we were landing at Normandy because it's look heroic" well, you don't fight war because it look like whatever, if I had said that I will get a frag in my ass so quick that I wouldn't even able to finish that sentence
 
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First of all, let's get one thing and one thing very straight. The MOST civilian casualty Russian/Soviet Union EVER created is not on some brown Muslim. It's going to be European, and if we classified by their religion, it's going to be more Christian being killed than Jew, then Muslim

The single most Civilian Casualty event the Russian did to is Jew, it's pogrom is on par, if not exceeded Germany's Final Resolution, simply because it spanned over 50 years instead of 7, and that is the reason why Jew moved to Israel, it was started by the 1 million or so Russian Jew that space Russia.


Then the second most civilian casualty the Russian cause is no doubt toward the German, Pole and Hungarian during WW2, there are no war in this world created more civilian casualty than WW2. And Russia is a big part of that. War in Afghanistan (both US or Russian version) Chechen, Albanian Masscare or even Rwanda Genocide is only a fraction of the civilian casualty, in fact, I am not even sure if we add those numbers together will ever exceed that number, and Russia had not particip[ate in any theatre other than European Threatre

Those are when Russia are the most Brutal both in war and in civility

And finally as I said, civilian casualty is hardly a measure on how brutal or how indiscriminate a war is, again, that's from a few different factor, for example, war in Vietnam will always have less civilian casualty than what the Israeli was doing in Gaza., not because of the American are less brutal toward the Vietnamese, but because VIetnam is a bigger country than Gaza, and people have room to move around, if you talk about the two war, the rules of engagement are similar because that was the war when US last have free fire zone, which mean you can indiscriminately attack Civilian population, we cant do that afterward, as we need to PID our target, and that is exactly the same rules of engagement the Israel had in Gaza. So if you ask me, both war have the same brutality., but vietnam civilian casualty is a lot smaller, you are looking at around 500,000 vietnamese civilian casualty in that 10 years war, to around 200,000 Gazan in that 2 years conflict.

And no, there are nothing Russian can do outside what they are doing now, because that warfare Russian is fighting in Ukraine is the least technological advance, that is WW1 and WW2 era warfare, if they have a choice they won't pump people like they were fighting in trench back in WW1. So no, there are no "If Russian is serious then......." You are not fighting WW1 and WW2 style unless you are dead set serious, in fact, it was so serious the last time the Russian fighting like they do now is when Germany was at the doorstep of Moscow, you have to be really serious to put resource and fight like they do back in WW1 and WW2. It's me saying "Hey, I want to fight like we were landing at Normandy because it's look heroic" well, you don't fight war because it look like whatever, if I had said that I will get a frag in my ass so quick that I wouldn't even able to finish that sentence

Once again, nobody believes this propaganda any more.

Stalin is supposed to have killed 6-17 million people so how did 1 million Jews (assuming the figure is not exaggerated) equate to Jews being the most persecuted group by him?

Also, the standard is not how countries behaved in WW2 or before. If we go back in history then there are no limits. US nuclear bombs killed hundreds of thousands of people. Allied bombing of Germany killed similar people. Mass rapes of German women by allied soldiers after WW2 were also off the charts. If we go back in history invaders killed large numbers of the conquered peoples, percentage wise, so that line of reasoning takes us nowhere.

The discussion is about how Russia behaved in recent wars. You can spin the numbers all day long. The fact remains that, compared to the deliberate, systematic targeting of civilians in Asia, Russia is treating Ukrainian civilians with kid gloves.

This is the part you are refusing to acknowledge. In Asia and elsewhere, it is acceptable to deliberately target civilians and shrug it off as a mistake or collateral damage. Israel does it every single day and gets away with it. Russia did it in in Asia. Russia is NOT doing it in Ukraine.
 
Once again, nobody believes this propaganda any more.

Stalin is supposed to have killed 6-17 million people so how did 1 million Jews (assuming the figure is not exaggerated) equate to Jews being the most persecuted group by him?

1.6 million of jews are the one that escaped Russia and fled to Israel.........I didn't say Stalin murdered 1 million jews...

They didn't just kill 1 million jews. The pogrom did not just start with Stalin by the way, that was started during Tsar Russia


and then further on with Soviet Empire by Stalin


exact amount of jew Russian killed is unknown, but it is believed to be up to 10 million during 1897 to 1947 (before Israel established as a country) And if you only believe Russian figure, then the official figure is 3500, again, you are talking about 50+ years of killing.

Also, the standard is not how countries behaved in WW2 or before. If we go back in history then there are no limits. US nuclear bombs killed hundreds of thousands of people. Allied bombing of Germany killed similar people. Mass rapes of German women by allied soldiers after WW2 were also off the charts. If we go back in history invaders killed large numbers of the conquered peoples, percentage wise, so that line of reasoning takes us nowhere.

Again, you are talking about a total war in Ukraine, not war in Afghanstan (again, either one) or the insurrection suppression in Chechen or Dagastan. The only comparison point Russia or Soviet gets is WW2

And also, you can't just discount what they did because it was done in a different time and different era, everything was done in a different time and different era, the opposite of the same question "How far do we have to go to look at" applies to recent event as well, so exactly how far should we look at? 20 years ago? 50 years ago or 100 years ago? But then weren't they are the same people but different generation anyway?

By the way this is the EXACT REASON why I said you can't compare the civilian casualty to brutality. Becuase it happened in different time and different circumstance.

The discussion is about how Russia behaved in recent wars. You can spin the numbers all day long. The fact remains that, compared to the deliberate, systematic targeting of civilians in Asia, Russia is treating Ukrainian civilians with kid gloves.

This is the part you are refusing to acknowledge. In Asia and elsewhere, it is acceptable to deliberately target civilians and shrug it off as a mistake or collateral damage. Israel does it every single day and gets away with it. Russia did it in in Asia. Russia is NOT doing it in Ukraine.
Dude, Russia is treating Ukrainian like they would with anyone, I did not see them treating Ukrainian any less or any more humane than Chechen or Dagastan, I mean can you even name one policy Russia do to say they were treating those Uklrainian with kids gloves? I mean sure, you can say Russia "Kidnapping" Ukrainian children is to put them off the frontline, but does that mean that was not cruel? In fact that is internationally illegal.


Which also is the exact reason why ICC issued a warrant for Putin arrest in 2023 in the first place.

On the other hand, how the war unfold have EVERYTHING to do with brutality, again, can you name me one Russian strategy different than they were in Mali, Chechen or anywhere for you to say they were treating Ukrainian in kids gloves?

If the war is prosecuted by the same mean, then the brutality level are going to be the same, just because you deal less civilian damages does not mean you are in anyway less brutal, and that is the fact you failed to acknowledge.

And Russia DID deliberately target civilian and shrug off as a mistake or collateral damage in Ukraine. In fact, whatever you had accused Israel been doing in Gaza the Russian did the same thing.


You can't just discount one and hold the other responsible because it convenience you......
 
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1.6 million of jews are the one that escaped Russia and fled to Israel.........I didn't say Stalin murdered 1 million jews...

They didn't just kill 1 million jews. The pogrom did not just start with Stalin by the way, that was started during Tsar Russia


and then further on with Soviet Empire by Stalin


exact amount of jew Russian killed is unknown, but it is believed to be up to 10 million during 1897 to 1947 (before Israel established as a country) And if you only believe Russian figure, then the official figure is 3500, again, you are talking about 50+ years of killing.



Again, you are talking about a total war in Ukraine, not war in Afghanstan (again, either one) or the insurrection suppression in Chechen or Dagastan. The only comparison point Russia or Soviet gets is WW2

And also, you can't just discount what they did because it was done in a different time and different era, everything was done in a different time and different era, the opposite of the same question "How far do we have to go to look at" applies to recent event as well, so exactly how far should we look at? 20 years ago? 50 years ago or 100 years ago? But then weren't they are the same people but different generation anyway?

By the way this is the EXACT REASON why I said you can't compare the civilian casualty to brutality. Becuase it happened in different time and different circumstance.


Dude, Russia is treating Ukrainian like they would with anyone, I did not see them treating Ukrainian any less or any more humane than Chechen or Dagastan, I mean can you even name one policy Russia do to say they were treating those Uklrainian with kids gloves? I mean sure, you can say Russia "Kidnapping" Ukrainian children is to put them off the frontline, but does that mean that was not cruel? In fact that is internationally illegal.


Which also is the exact reason why ICC issued a warrant for Putin arrest in 2023 in the first place.

On the other hand, how the war unfold have EVERYTHING to do with brutality, again, can you name me one Russian strategy different than they were in Mali, Chechen or anywhere for you to say they were treating Ukrainian in kids gloves?

If the war is prosecuted by the same mean, then the brutality level are going to be the same, just because you deal less civilian damages does not mean you are in anyway less brutal, and that is the fact you failed to acknowledge.

And Russia DID deliberately target civilian and shrug off as a mistake or collateral damage in Ukraine. In fact, whatever you had accused Israel been doing in Gaza the Russian did the same thing.


You can't just discount one and hold the other responsible because it convenience you......

As I told you, Western propaganda has lost credibility. Fewer and fewer people believe claims about Jewish deaths over the years and Ukrainian deaths.

I am not saying they didn't happen but Israel has turned legitimate Jewish suffering into such a propaganda tool that it has worn off. Every time someone mentioned Jewish suffering now, the first thing people think is the Gaza genocide. The Zionists have become so openly arrogant about their control of Western media that now people questions the extent of all such claims. This is happening all over the world. Blame Israel for cheapening Jewish suffering.

When one Russian missile lands on a civilian site in Ukraine, the Western media makes it the end of the world. When Russia destroys entire cities in Asia, nobody even bothers to mention it.

And, no, the debate is about modern rules of conduct. How countries, specifically Russia, has behaved in recent wars compared to Ukraine. The number of civilian deaths speaks for itself.

Here is the official figure for Ukraine:


This is Reuters. This is UN
12,300 (say 13,000) deaths in Ukraine.
Compare that to 100,000 plus in Chechnya alone.

The Ukraine propaganda has stopped working even in Europe. Even ordinary Europeans don't buy the media stories any more.
 
As I told you, Western propaganda has lost credibility. Fewer and fewer people believe claims about Jewish deaths over the years and Ukrainian deaths. I am not saying they didn't happen but Israel has turned legitimate Jewish suffering into such a propaganda tool that it has worn off.

When one Russian missile lands on a civilian site in Ukraine, the Western media makes it the end of the world. When Russia destroys entire cities in Asia, nobody even bothers to mention it.

And, no, the debate is about modern rules of conduct. How countries, specifically Russia, has behaved in recent wars compared to Ukraine. The number of civilian deaths speaks for itself.

Here is the official figure for Ukraine:


This is Reuters. This is UN
12,300 (say 13,000) deaths in Ukraine.
Compare that to 100,000 plus in Chechnya alone.

The Ukraine propaganda has stopped working even in Europe. Even ordinary Europeans don't buy the media stories any more.
Well, then can I use the same reason you use to justify what Russian doing in Ukraine for what they did in Chechen and Afghanistan? That Russian or Chechen Propanganda is not to be believed, well, I don't believe Russia killed 100000 Chechen as well, well, they said so themselves. lol Even Amesty International claim only 20000 killed.

As I said, I don't look at casualty number at all, because as I said it does not reflect the actual brutality of the war. Becuase there are going to be a time someone would just say "Hey, that's propaganda"

by the way, look at how many people UN think was killed in Gaza??

1749105809835.png


Do you really believe Israel only killed 35000 gazan? Well, you seems to believe the UN figure on Ukraine.
 
. lol Even Amesty International claim only 20000 killed.

Can you post a source where Amnesty says the total civilian death toll in Chechnya from the Russian invasion was 20,000?

by the way, look at how many people UN think was killed in Gaza??

View attachment 125929


Do you really believe Israel only killed 35000 gazan? Well, you seems to believe the UN figure on Ukraine.

That figure is from one year ago.
 
Can you post a source where Amnesty says the total civilian death toll in Chechnya from the Russian invasion was 20,000?

As I said, I wouldn''t believe those number, but if you want to know, it was quoted in here on a Amensty International Report from 2007

1749107646766.png


That figure is from one year ago.

I don't think they updated the figure, but even if they do, unless they drastically change that number or Israel really do keep up with the killing, I don't think it ever will get to reality
 
The chief beneficiaries from this attack is NATO and USA.
Putin will know and understand this, and he will ensure his response in aligned.
Relax, take a coffee and wait. Putin´s industrial complex makes 1.5 balistic missile, 1.5 cruise missile, 2 air missiles a day. that comes from russia defence ministry. So the russian retaliation will likely come in 4 weeks or so. the russians need time to make the missiles.

No, those rusty old Soviet bombers are no threat to NATO, least the US.
Most benefit goes to Ukraine and Europe. the more the russia military potential is eliminated, the more secure for the people in Europe.
 

From your own link, that figure of 25,000 is only for the second Chechen war since 1999, and they admit that the first war killed 'tens of thousands'.

I don't think they updated the figure, but even if they do, unless they drastically change that number or Israel really do keep up with the killing, I don't think it ever will get to reality

THey have updated the figures.


The researchers sought to assess the death toll from Israel’s air and ground campaign in Gaza between October 2023 and the end of June 2024, estimating 64,260 deaths

Please note that these figures are only up to June 2024, almost a year ago.
 
From your own link, that figure of 25,000 is only for the second Chechen war since 1999, and they admit that the first war killed 'tens of thousands'.

Again, I don't believe in those or ANY of the figure, as I said, I don't look at them for anything. I was answering you because you ask me where Amensty International Said that.

Also another AI report put the first chechen war in 96 having 20- 30,000 civilian casualty


1749122387487.png

So both war combine AI estimated 45,000-55,000 civilian death, half (or almost) of that 100,000, you claim.



THey have updated the figures.


The researchers sought to assess the death toll from Israel’s air and ground campaign in Gaza between October 2023 and the end of June 2024, estimating 64,260 deaths

Please note that these figures are only up to June 2024, almost a year ago.

That's a different estimation, this is from Yale and some International organisation and published by Lancet. This have nothing to do with UN number we were talking about before, again, I tried to look up UN number, there aren't any after the June 2024 report, maybe there are, I just can't find them, I don't know

1749122024288.png

Also, it's between Oct 23 to June 24, which the number is twice the UN reported number in 2024
 
Again, I don't believe in those or ANY of the figure, as I said, I don't look at them for anything. I was answering you because you ask me where Amensty International Said that.

Also another AI report put the first chechen war in 96 having 20- 30,000 civilian casualty


View attachment 125958

So both war combine AI estimated 45,000-55,000 civilian death, half (or almost) of that 100,000, you claim.

AI report is meaningless unless we know the data it used to arrive at the conclusion. Here is what Google AI says:

The First and Second Chechen Wars resulted in a significant number of civilian deaths. Estimates range widely, but generally, the First Chechen War (1994-1996) caused an estimated 20,000 to 100,000 civilian casualties, according to various sources, while the Second Chechen War (1999-2000) resulted in an estimated 13,000 civilian casualties. The combined civilian death toll from both wars is estimated to be between 50,000 and 160,000.

That's a different estimation, this is from Yale and some International organisation and published by Lancet. This have nothing to do with UN number we were talking about before, again, I tried to look up UN number, there aren't any after the June 2024 report, maybe there are, I just can't find them, I don't know

View attachment 125956

Also, it's between Oct 23 to June 24, which the number is twice the UN reported number in 2024

The Lancet is the most prestigious medical journal in the world. These researchers are medical personnel and they explained how they came up with the number. They also explained how the UN and other organizations are underestimating the casualties by as much as 41% because they fail to count civilians who die because of secondary effects of war. Once again, these are medical professionals reporting in the world's most prestigious medical journal.
 
The FPV drones used to attack the airfield were loaded into trucks and driven as close to the airfield as possible, after which the drones flew out of the trucks and attacked the planes
 
Putin is still playing Mr.Nice guy. He will pay a heavy price for it.
 

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