Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Rational Philosopher]

By you guys I mean exactly you guys.

No one has ever claimed that Pakistan would be flying F-16V or the J-20. You are making that up. Everyone is well aware that US F-16s are out of the question. Why would PAF want the J-20 when it can get the J-35 which fits its philosophy and doctrine?

Just like you have the freedom to share your thoughts, allow others the same liberty. Stop telling others what they can and cannot say. You don't always require a source to share thoughts and ideas. Don't ridicule older members of this forum.

Many people have made claims several times of supposed F-16V, J-16 and J-20s landing. This can be confirmed by senior members like @Deino who have been a witness to them over the years.

And it shouldn't matter about how long you've been a member of the forum, if you make a wild claim that lacks any evidence or even in fact it's more likely to be false context considered, then other members have the right to call you out for posting random unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Dalit]

Many people have made claims several times of supposed F-16V, J-16 and J-20s landing. This can be confirmed by senior members like @Deino who have been a witness to them over the years.

And it shouldn't matter about how long you've been a member of the forum, if you make a wild claim that lacks any evidence or even in fact it's more likely to be false context considered, then other members have the right to call you out for posting random unsubstantiated claims.

There is no such thing as false claims. Members are free to share their thoughts. You cannot stop members from discussing and sharing their mind.

Secondly, it does matter when you ridicule and point fingers at other members who have more experience than yourself. Stop being arrogant and admit your mistake. You are a newbie. Act like one. We have seen many members like you come and go on these forums over the years. They used to walk tall and brag in similar fashion. They had all the answers. Well, they disappeared and we never heard of them.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

There is no such thing as false claims. Members are free to share their thoughts. You cannot stop members from discussing and sharing their mind.

Secondly, it does matter when you ridicule and point fingers at other members who have more experience than yourself. Stop being arrogant and admit your mistake.

Who did I ridicule? I don't remember ridiculing anyone.

Also you must also admit, that there is such a thing as false claims, if I say right now that J-16s have landed in Pakistan joining the PAF when there is no evidence or source to support that fact, then it is indeed a false claim. And it should not be spread because that ruins the forum giving it a reputation & experience of being a place of pure rumours and no good discussion, and I don't see not wanting misinformation as arrogance, we are all learning. All of us. But we should not post lies or things that don't have any logic to back them.

 

[Dalit]

Who did I ridicule? I don't remember ridiculing anyone.

Also you must also admit, that there is such a thing as false claims, if I say right now that J-16s have landed in Pakistan joining the PAF when there is no evidence or source to support that fact, then it is indeed a false claim. And it should not be spread because that ruins the forum giving it a reputation & experience of being a place of pure rumours and no good discussion, and I don't see not wanting misinformation as arrogance, we are all learning. All of us. But we should not post lies or things that don't have any logic to back them.

I have been reading your posts. They reek with I have all the answers and the others don't know anything. Just have a look at the first post that I replied to. You and that other @AeroTech chap are pointing fingers at other members who apparently don't know anything.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan needs ICBM and SLBM plus produce 1500 to 3500 KM range cruise missiles which can be fired from land and ships and a 800 KM version for Air Force. Recent Iran Israel conflict should work as a lesson. You need both a very strong and hopefully a bigger Air Force but you also need long range ballistic and cruise missiles.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I have been reading your posts. They reek with I have all the answers and the others don't know anything. Just have a look at the first post that I replied to. You and that other chap are pointing fingers at other members who apparently don't know anything.

I don't have all the answers and I in fact tag other (more knowledgeable) members for things I don't understand, if you scroll up I had asked JamD about HGV flight profiles. There are many more knowledgeable members here.

Asking people to provide evidence to substantiate their claims because they seem either made up or inaccurate is not ridiculing, shouldn't we have the right to ask people for sources and not allow false rumours to spread? Isn't that fair?

 

[Dalit]

I don't have all the answers and I in fact tag other (more knowledgeable) members for things I don't understand, if you scroll up I had asked JamD about HGV flight profiles. There are many more knowledgeable members here.

Asking people to provide evidence to substantiate their claims because they seem either made up or inaccurate is not ridiculing, shouldn't we have the right to ask people for sources and not allow false rumours to spread? Isn't that fair?

Read your own post and tell me if this sounds like generalising and chest thumping:




You claim that Pakistani forums are filled with members that make up stuff or make huge claims. Give us names of these members. I am very interested in knowing how many such members we have on PDF.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Read your own post and tell me if this sounds like generalising and chest thumping:

View attachment 131981

That was specifically aimed at people who post rumour mills with no evidence and just tell you trust them anyway. It has nothing to do with normal members looking for information and contributing.

Haven't there been several rumours over the years of XYZ planes that never ever materialised?

 

[Dalit]

That was specifically aimed at people who post rumour mills with no evidence and just tell you trust them anyway. It has nothing to do with normal members looking for information and contributing.

Haven't there been several rumours over the years of XYZ planes that never ever materialised?

Provide us the names of the members. You claim that this forum is filled with such members.

I have missed so much over the years. Jeez, I need to catch up. Please fill me in.

 

[Deino]

There is no such thing as false claims. Members are free to share their thoughts. You cannot stop members from discussing and sharing their mind.

Secondly, it does matter when you ridicule and point fingers at other members who have more experience than yourself. Stop being arrogant and admit your mistake. You are a newbie. Act like one. We have seen many members like you come and go on these forums over the years. They used to walk tall and brag in similar fashion. They had all the answers. Well, they disappeared and we never heard of them.

Well, that‘s plain wrong! If you claim the sky is green, then it is false … if you made that claim since you are stupid or have an issue with your eye-sight is another question but repeatedly posting random false stuff does not make your false opinion correct or a valid opinion that has to be accepted equally to a fact (aka the sky is blue and surely not green) or proven claims.

And the same is claiming what I already said so often: Claiming China will sell and deliver anything for free is false, claiming Paksitan can get anything or there are even J-16 & J-20 flying in PAF colours is false.

Again, if those who claim this are just stupid, if they are just bragging or if they like spreading fake news is irrelevant, but it does not make their opinion correct!

So in summary, yes you can post whatever opinion you like, but if posting repeatedly false stuff is your agenda, then don‘t be surprised or upset, when you are being called out!

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Give us the names of the members. You claim that this forum is filled with such members.

I have missed so much over the years. Jeez, I need to catch up. Please fill me in.

Just check Deino's post history, he has been calling them out for posting rumours/claims with no evidence. I can't go and tag all of them, too much effort.

 

[Dalit]

Well, that‘s plain wrong! If you claim the sky is green, then it is false … if you made that claim since you are stupid or have an issue with your eye-sight is another question but repeatedly posting random false stuff does not make your false opinion correct.

And the same is claiming what I already said so often: Claiming China will sell and deliver anything for free is false, claiming Paksitan can get anything or there are even J-16 & J-20 flying in PAF colours is false.

Again, if those who claim this are just stupid, if they are just bragging or if they like spreading fake news is irrelevant, but it does not make their opinion correct!

So in summary, yes you can post whatever opinion you like, but if posting repeatedly false stuff is your agenda, then don‘t be surprised or upset, when you are being called out!

You also provide the names of these members. Apparently this forum is filled to the brim with members who just make up stuff out of thin air.

Let's name these members because why would we want them here, right?

 

[Dalit]

Just check Deino's post history, he has been calling them out for posting rumours/claims with no evidence. I can't go and tag all of them, too much effort.

You think I am a baby and haven't been around on PDF? You think I don't know who Deino is or what he posts?

Now you have made a claim yourself and you will need to back it up by providing names of members who make up stuff. Let me see who these morons are so that I can also start ignoring them, right? Do your noble duty and provide at least a few names.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Compared to that at least we successfully struck S400 at Adampur and at least hit several buildings at Udhampur airbase and Beas IA Base.

Not really. Success of strike on S400 isn’t confirmed. PAF just claimed a strike and didn’t have anything to prove its success. Even attack on Udhampur has many loopholes. If at all, only, the runway was struck. No damage to any other infrastructure of value.
These failures are primarily due to poor choice of weapons by Pakistan. Fatah I, few CM400, drones and artillery were the main choice of weapons from Pak side. Fatah was the main culprit. It lacked precision and the attempt appeared to cause area damage. Whether adequate numbers of Fatah were fired to saturate Indian AD is also doubtful. They failed to make any impact other than falling within air bases if not intercepted by AD. Even the ones that penetrated, couldn’t strike anything of value since they lacked precision
CM400 strike was a bold attempt. The reason of failure to achieve the objective could be either IAF AD doing its job or IAF moving it away expecting an attack (the likely tactics used due S400, being a high value target)or plain simple luck. The barrage of drones was surprisingly ineffective due to innovative use of L70 and other AD guns by India. I always had a doubt that India had this capability to thwart drone attacks at this scale. Did Pakistan used its best systems?

Infact the conflict between Iran - Israel+US with India -Pak is a flawed comparison. There is a long list of reasons -
- Poor Iranian AD
- Non existent Iranian AF
- Large distance between both adversaries leading to restrict the kind of weapons that could be used.
- No nuclear overhang
- Complete asymmetry in ISR
- No possibility of escalation on ground domain.
- The reason of this conflict had a very limited scope

Iran had only one thing - BMs to retaliate. People are just celebrating them penetrating Israel AD. Were they able to attack any significant target? Not really, while Israel struck where it mattered with complete impunity. There is nothing to celebrate for Iran. Israel got away ALMOST unscathed.

There would definitely be few lessons for both India and Pak from Iran -Israel conflict but very few can be applied one to one due to reasons stated above .

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Not really. Success of strike on S400 isn’t confirmed. PAF just claimed a strike and didn’t have anything to prove its success. Even attack on Udhampur has many loopholes. If at all, only, the runway was struck. No damage to any other infrastructure of value.
These failures are primarily due to poor choice of weapons by Pakistan. Fatah I and II, few CM400, drones and artillery were the main choice of weapons from Pak side. Fatah was the main culprit. It lacked precision and the attempt appeared to cause area damage. Whether adequate numbers of Fatah were fired to saturate Indian AD is also doubtful. They failed in making any impact other than falling within air bases if not intercepted by AD. Even the ones that penetrated, couldn’t strike anything of value since they lacked precision
CM400 strike was a bold attempt. The reason of failure to achieve the objective could be either IAF AD doing its job or IAF moving it away expecting an attack (the likely tactics used due S400, being a high value target)or plain simple luck. The barrage of drones was surprisingly ineffective due to innovative use of L70 and other AD guns by India. I always had a doubt that India had this capability to thwart drone attacks at this scale. Did Pakistan used its best systems?

Infact the conflict between Iran - Israel+US with India -Pak is a flawed comparison. There is a long list of reasons -
- Poor Iranian AD
- Non existent Iranian AF
- Large distance between both adversaries leading to restrict the kind of weapons that could be used.
- No nuclear overhang
- Complete asymmetry in ISR
- No possibility of escalation on ground domain.
- The reason of this conflict had a very limited scope

Iran had only one thing - BMs to retaliate. People are just celebrating them penetrating Israel AD. Were they able to attack any significant target? Not really, while Israel struck where it mattered with complete impunity. There is nothing to celebrate for Iran. Israel got away ALMOST unscathed.

There would definitely be few lessons for both India and Pak from Iran -Israel conflict but very few can be applied one to one due to reasons stated above .

Show any piece of evidence for Fatah 2 being fired? Pakistan released footage of all weapons used and it didn't fire the Fatah 2 because it hasn't produced any in decent numbers. Same reason Pakistan didn't use any more capable missiles, it's mostly nuclear posture and wasn't prepared for conventional strikes.

Only the CM-400AKG was used on JF-17s, which footage was released. Rest were some loitering munitions and Fatah rockets MLRS.