Pakistan Army Small Arms

[Toxic]

cavaliers klass rifle is the best candidate considering..

Isn't that an unlicensed Ar-10 type rifle? , I guess it would be good we want to continue Using 7.62

 

[farooqbhai]

cavaliers klass rifle is the best candidate considering..

GIDS KLASS 786 u mean. Anyway GIDS and Cavalier guns r practically the same.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am now beginning to understand why 5.56 makes sense. Its better to have 5.56 because ammo carrying capacity and have 1-2, 7.62x51 per need. That's now a standard configuration and makes total clarity.

 

[Toxic]

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Pakistan Reveals New Rifles – POF BW20 and POF BW21​

PAKISTAN ARMY NEWS QUWA PREMIUM EXCEPT by Quwa Team December 19, 2021

Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) took the shrouds off its new in-house, original rifle projects – the BW20 and BW21. The POF BW20 and BW21 are chambered for 7.62×51 mm rounds.
Citing videos released by Salman Ali, the lead designer of the POF BW20-series, The Firearm Blog reported that the BW20 uses roller-delayed blowback. This is the same mechanism used in the Hecker & Koch G3, which is the standard-issue battle rifle of the Pakistan Army (PA) and one of POF’s main current products.
It seems that POF is pitching the BW20 for the PA’s next-generation rifle requirements. According to POF’s Salman Ali (via The Firearm Blog), the BW20 is a new rifle design that delivers cost savings by re-leveraging POF’s existing production infrastructure, which is geared for the HK G3.
Though the BW20 has some commonality with the G3 (around 30%), the BW20 is not an upgrade of the HK G3. It is a new rifle.
Pakistan Ordnance Factories BW20
For example, where the G3 comprises of 200 parts, the BW20 uses 125 parts. This is a clear difference in design and build. Moreover, the BW20 uses POF’s in-house trigger mechanism, which is based on the AR-15, while its feed system make use of AR10 magazines. The final production version will have a polymer lower receiver, ambidextrous magazine release and selector system, and bolt hold open mechanism. The BW20 also has picatinny rails for accessories such as sights and forward grips.
POF is also reportedly working on 5.56×45 mm and 7.62×39 mm versions of the BW20. The latter design will reportedly be compatible with AK magazines. POF will likely pitch the 7.62×39 mm to both the PA and the Ministry of Interior’s (MoI) paramilitary units as service adoption for that round grows.
As for the BW21, according to Salman Ali, is also a 7.62×51 mm design using the roller-delayed blowback mechanism, but “in an AR-style platform.” Ali said that the BW21 is entirely different from the BW20. It is unclear if the BW21 is a continuation of POF’s AR development, which it first showed through the PK18 in late 2019. However, it is interesting that POF re-applied the roller-delayed blowback mechanism to an AR-style frame. The BW21 might be even more of an original design than the BW20.
Pakistan Ordnance Factories BW21

Analysis – A New Shift in Pakistan’s Future Rifle Program?​

In 2015, the Pakistan Army issued a tender for a new-generation assault rifle. It had tested many designs from all over the world, including the FN SCAR, Beretta ARX-200, CZ BREN, AK-103 and others. In the end, however, the Army did not select any of the 7.62×51 mm designs for local adoption. There were reports of Pakistan requesting the AK-103 from Russia, but the status of that program is unclear.
Ultimately, it seems that POF was given the greenlight to design an original rifle. Part of the reason seems to stem from a sense that none of the foreign designs substantially improved upon the G3 in terms of its accuracy and durability. This is not to say the other rifles were not good, but the added improvement they offered may not have justified the total cost of adopting and locally manufacturing a foreign design…

POF is manufacturing all types of small arms for the Pakistan Military then why is Pakistan requesting USA for small arms? Doesn't make sense to me or it is another "political " stunt by the mil-establishment? Like WoT

What happened to this thing?

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

I am now beginning to understand why 5.56 makes sense. Its better to have 5.56 because ammo carrying capacity and have 1-2, 7.62x51 per need. That's now a standard configuration and makes total clarity.

Everything should be mission specific. Some cases where 7.62 makes more sense that 5.56 and vice-versa.

As for a "new" rifle, not much has changed really since the introduction of the AK / FN / M-16 series. At least not IMO. Better polymers and alloys have been introduced along with sighting systems. Yet the same basic concept and functionality remain as it has for the past 50, 60, or 70 years.

The concept of modularity is a good thing by allowing a platform to be configured for mission-specific tasks. You can't get that from the G3 / G5 (does Pakistan use the G5?). You can with the M-16 / M-4 / SCAR series. There are others as well. A few of my personal weapons are like that.

 

[Metal 0-1]

There's no point in getting newer rifles with modern firing manual and all those m-lok handgaurds or even getting kits to modernize your AK's and G3's unless you can issue grunts optics.


It's almost like buying AESA equipped fighter jets and don't trust your pilots with BVR missiles

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

There's no point in getting newer rifles with modern firing manual and all those m-lok handgaurds or even getting kits to modernize your AK's and G3's unless you can issue grunts optics.


It's almost like buying AESA equipped fighter jets and don't trust your pilots with BVR missiles

That's a good point. Optics should be considered as part of the overall package. Advances in optics along with durability are such now that only rarely do I see a grunt without an optic. And that is during training exercises or, rear echelon troops who don't necessarily need an optic as part of their kit.

Conversely, the services, especially the Marines, have been de-emphasizing training on iron sights in favor of optics. If you look at any training platoon now, their M-16A4s are equipped with Acogs. Friends of mine still in the Reserve tell me the new recruits might spend a little time during weapons training on iron sights. Otherwise, the majority is with optics including range qualification week.

I still train with iron sights because frankly, that was how I was trained and if you look at my avatar, that tab was earned using iron sights.

 

[Metal 0-1]

That's a good point. Optics should be considered as part of the overall package. Advances in optics along with durability are such now that only rarely do I see a grunt without an optic. And that is during training exercises or, rear echelon troops who don't necessarily need an optic as part of their kit.

Conversely, the services, especially the Marines, have been de-emphasizing training on iron sights in favor of optics. If you look at any training platoon now, their M-16A4s are equipped with Acogs. Friends of mine still in the Reserve tell me the new recruits might spend a little time during weapons training on iron sights. Otherwise, the majority is with optics including range qualification week.

I still train with iron sights because frankly, that was how I was trained and if you look at my avatar, that tab was earned using iron sights.

Marines have came along way. More than 5 years they had M-16s with ACOGS
Now this is what an average Grunt looks like

 

[Metal 0-1]

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Indeed the Marines have come a long way. In two of the photos above, they are still swinging Acogs. Granted, not the TA-01s that were originally issued (and what I have) but the later ones. They are now swinging the TA31RCO while transitioning to the VCOG from Sig Sauer.

This is the exact model many units are still running:

Trijicon ACOG TA31RCO BAC Rifle Scope 4x 32mm A4 Military Version

The TA31RCO is an Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) designed for the USMC's M16A4 weapon system (20” barrel). It incorporates dual...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Metal 0-1]

It's a 1000$ optic but it's also bomb proof

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

It's a 1000$ optic but it's also bomb proof

Indeed. Battle proven by America's finest.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

This is what the Marines are transitioning to:

Trijicon USMC SCO VCOG 1-8x28mm Red MRAD Tree Reticle Riflescope w/LaRue LT799 Mount, Tenebraex Flip Caps & Soft Case VC18-C-2400012 For Sale | SHIPS FREE - EuroOptic

FREE SHIPPING on Trijicon USMC SCO VCOG 1-8x28mm Red MRAD Tree Reticle Riflescope w/LaRue LT799 Mount, Tenebraex Flip Caps & Soft Case VC18-C-2400012

www.eurooptic.com

The Army is moving toward Vortex. Good glass as well.

PA needs to decide on the platform then the glass to enhance.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Platform is decided, if they are not looking for kickbacks contracts. G-3 with lighter polymer furniture, Zenticto/Sureshot furtniture from Russia for their AK's. And for the SOF elements SOPMOD Block 2 platform from US.

But anyways
Modernized G-3 of Ex Medic in German Army CSAR team from during his time in Afghanistan

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

It's still a G3. I'm not knocking it. Would love to add one to the collection or perhaps one of the licensed copies. But it's still a G3 and not something I'd want to hump now. Bad enough we (the US military) have managed to get the M-4 platform into the weight category of the M-1 / M-14 with all the gear that gets attached now.