Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[pwfi]

Until the Arabs (including Palestine) and Persians rescind their recognition of India (settler colonial rapist state), we have no reason to not recognize Israel.

Pakistan policy about recognization of Israel (illegitimate son of the West) was clear cut and before creation of Pakistan.

Jinnah, Iqbal, and Pakistan’s Historical Opposition to Israel

There is a belief that Pakistan is solely opposed to Israel due to the latter’s post-independence atrocities against Palestine, which are

moderndiplomacy.eu

 

[TAC]

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Don't laugh at the objective though.

’total annihilation of enemy airforce’ is so easy in an exercise where u set the rules, not so simple when it’s for real. i.e. bitch slapping in 2019 elevated to severe ass whopping in 2025. Now reduced to consoling themselves by beating imaginary enemies to death in their own exercises ’s.

 

[Abdul q]

’total annihilation of enemy airforce’ is so easy in an exercise where u set the rules, not so simple when it’s for real. i.e. bitch slapping in 2019 elevated to severe ass whopping in 2025. Now reduced to consoling themselves by beating imaginary enemies to death in their own exercises ’s.

This is while keeping nepal in mind

 

[samsite84]

Is there any "other" side of the argument or its a one-way street? Last few pages have been making the same "broad" point over and over again.

India was the aggressor, it got whooped. Now its vying for blood, we should be careful and we should have caused more damage.

India is weak, meek, irrational, .... add other adjectives

 

[Oscar]

Is there any "other" side of the argument or its a one-way street? Last few pages have been making the same "broad" point over and over again.

India was the aggressor, it got whooped. Now its vying for blood, we should be careful and we should have caused more damage.

India is weak, meek, irrational, .... add other adjectives

Unfortunate side effect of having arguments in comments and 30 second attention spans.

 

[Oscar]

’total annihilation of enemy airforce’ is so easy in an exercise where u set the rules, not so simple when it’s for real. i.e. bitch slapping in 2019 elevated to severe ass whopping in 2025. Now reduced to consoling themselves by beating imaginary enemies to death in their own exercises ’s.

IAF behaved laughably in 65 - then came back and did fairly decently in 71. Perhaps not as great but well enough that it allowed its ground forces to achieve the objectives.

PAF actually did pretty bad in 65 considering its advantages, it dithered and at the end snatched defeat vis a vis its war objectives from the jaws of victory.

In 71, PAF did decently but also played over cautious just as it did in 65 waiting on overall military leadership (at that time also engaged in self preservation or exploring Noor Jehan).

What makes you assume somehow that IAF performance is guaranteed to be as callous, misjudged or overconfident as before?

You assume somehow that a combination of strategic imperatives and plain anger/revenge cannot drive better decisions and preparation?

 

[Khansaheeb]

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This is what happens when your response is pacifist and not a punishing one, we spared the goddamns indians for 2 fking days, gave them time to hit back at us and now these dumb fk gangus think they can destroy the PAF on ground. The war that pak establishment ran away from is looming on the horizon, they could have fought this war on terms but the opportunity has slipped and we will be fighting on Indian terms, a month, six months or a year, we will always be guessing and they will quietly jump in when they want to

They flooded Pakistan first by opening their dams and now they prepare to attack us, all for Israel and their allies. Only an offensive posture by China and Pakistan to take Kashmir can change the dynamics in the region else forever we will be under the threat of terror.

 

[Oscar]

They flooded Pakistan first by opening their dams and now they prepare to attack us, all for Israel and their allies.

They have no Israeli motivation here other than support.

Their motivation is plainly themselves and are basically rehearsing plans across sectors.

What matters is if the rehearsals are being done with 100% rigor or honesty or being done to say “done sir!”

 

[lightning f57]

IAF behaved laughably in 65 - then came back and did fairly decently in 71. Perhaps not as great but well enough that it allowed its ground forces to achieve the objectives.

PAF actually did pretty bad in 65 considering its advantages, it dithered and at the end snatched defeat vis a vis its war objectives from the jaws of victory.

In 71, PAF did decently but also played over cautious just as it did in 65 waiting on overall military leadership (at that time also engaged in self preservation or exploring Noor Jehan).

What makes you assume somehow that IAF performance is guaranteed to be as callous, misjudged or overconfident as before?

You assume somehow that a combination of strategic imperatives and plain anger/revenge cannot drive better decisions and preparation?

Good points.

Never underestimate your enemy. Sooner or later they will get their act together. Its better to assume flr the worst and plan for that.

 

[Khansaheeb]

They have no Israeli motivation here other than support.

Their motivation is plainly themselves and are basically rehearsing plans across sectors.

What matters is if the rehearsals are being done with 100% rigor or honesty or being done to say “done sir!”

Just look at the timing: Full blown genocide in Gaza, 1/3 of Pakistan under water, meeting by the Field Marshal in the US and our leadership hardly seen. Retired officers trying to get out of Pakistan is not a good sign either. Whenever the people rise for better life war is imposed on them.

 

[Oscar]

Good points.

Never underestimate your enemy. Sooner or later they will get their act together. Its better to assume flr the worst and plan for that.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle


Pakistan is barely in the orange - fortunately India was in the red.
However, if India comes to the Orange then things will be VERY different

 

[Khansaheeb]

Kashmir is more important. Iran, Turkey and China must all focus on Kashmir.

Palestine should ask Modi for help. Clearly our Kashmir, our suffering didn't matter at all.

Once Israel is neutralized every Nazi will fall in place.

 

[Khansaheeb]

If they are that close they have learnt f*ck all. Mind you I agree with your post, we should have struck far harder.
When their exercise occur send up the PAF and have them take offensive positions without doing anything, put them on the edge.

These are probing exercises to monitor and plan for PAF defense. Pakistan should keep its surprises for rainy days and just monitor from the Indian side.

 

[samsite84]

According to most forum members (and they are indeed more learned than I am), Pakistan has the edge especially in AF and it can match India in Army and while can't match in Navy, it can certainly blunt it.

Here's the question:
What is the reason why Pakistan hasn't changed (or can't) the status quo e.g., take Kashmir, continue to support Punjab cause overtly or sever India into hundred dominions (according to some members) etc.
Three possibilities:
1. Is it that because of the size difference, Pakistan can successfully defend but can't really attack (for a stretch which will be meaningful)?
2. Is it the incompetence of COAS/similar military and/or civilian leaders?
3. Is it that Pakistan is so merciful and righteous that it won't ever be the aggressor?

Which one is it and why will it be any different the next time?

 

[Oscar]

According to most forum members (and they are indeed more learned than I am), Pakistan has the edge especially in AF and it can match India in Army and while can't match in Navy, it can certainly blunt it.

Here's the question:
What is the reason why Pakistan hasn't changed (or can't) the status quo e.g., take Kashmir, continue to support Punjab cause overtly or sever India into hundred dominions (according to some members) etc.
Three possibilities:
1. Is it that because of the size difference, Pakistan can successfully defend but can't really attack (for a stretch which will be meaningful)?
2. Is it the incompetence of COAS/similar military and/or civilian leaders?
3. Is it that Pakistan is so merciful and righteous that it won't ever be the aggressor?

Which one is it and why will it be any different the next time?

Your first paragraph is poorly assumed.

1. The IAF is much superior to PAF on paper. It is just poorly executed as a system and overall strategy tactics.

2. The IA is much superior to PA on paper - however it is even more burgeoning in terms of utilizing its paper capabilities despite attempts to change it via cold start.

3. PN is hopelessly outmatched by IN - however it has implemented a decent Area denial capability which relies on PAF for closing it.

Now to answer your three points.

1. See above - in addition Pakistan has little capacity to sustain any total conflict beyond a few days. It is idiotic to assume that any offensive in Kashmir will remain isolated to Kashmir - both 1965 and Kargil in 99 are ample proof.

2. That goes without saying regardless of the scenario but also an abundance of caution and not wanting to risk their own mini comfortable fiefdoms that could be compromised if ANY conflict doesn’t go exactly as planned.

3. Sheepish smart alec comments get no cherry points and will guarantee a thread ban.