JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Michael]

The Main competitor of JF17 B3 will be J10CE .. for export customers..

This is a very rational and correct point of view!

$30M+ for light fighters vs $40M+ for medium fighters

 

[Scorpio]

This is a very rational and correct point of view!

$30+ million for light fighters vs $40+ million for medium fighters

Specially when both are from same origin .. that's China.. similar weapon package..
off course J10C can carry more load as well ..

Specially china will prefer to give soft loans for J10CE ...

 

[Michael]

Specially when both are from same origin .. that's China.. similar weapon package..
off course J10C can carry more load as well ..

Specially china will prefer to give soft loans for J10CE ...

To be precise, this rivalry was created by Pakistan.

China provided J-10CE to PAF at in-house procurement price with a large loan. This was originally a special deal given to Pakistan by China. It was top secret information between the two sides.

However, Pakistan leaked this contract and it came to light. This resulted in China not being able to raise the price any further in its subsequent sales efforts for the J-10CE. We can't raise the price of J-10CE by another 30-50% to sell it to other friends ......

If the details of the China-Pakistan contract on the sale of J-10CE had not been made public, CATIC would have been able to sell the J-10CE at a much higher price, thus avoiding a competitive relationship with the JF-17B3.

But there are no ifs ......

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Yommie]

View attachment 138958

Looking good. Should be able to phase out all the Mirage III / V by 2030.

 

[airhead]

First thing first J-10C wasn't alone involved in Rafale kill. It was a team effort. You are really undermining the roles of AWACS and other enablers.

J-10C vs Rafale 1V1 with no other enablers involved on both sides. My money's on Rafale.


I wouldn't go this far. But for arguments sake let's talk about it. What block of JF-17 are we talking about?
What variant of Mig-29/35 are we going to pitch against Jeff?

JF-17 Block II for sure skull **** older Mig-29 variants.

But Will struggle against Modernized Mig-29M2 and Mig-35(It's basically overhyped Mig-29).

So you need Block 3. Now it's a level game. Were talking about 1V1 here.

Close range wvr combat bw rafale and j10? J10 has no chance

 

[rafale]

Close range wvr combat bw rafale and j10? J10 has no chance

why? Because of the overhyped marketing by Dassault? Or you actually have technical parameters of wvr combat of J-10C vs. Rafale? (which i highly doubt anyone in public domain has)

FSO could be another overhyped tech just like SPECTRA or RBE........

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Close range wvr combat bw rafale and j10? J10 has no chance

I wonder from where people get such confidence to pass such sweeping statements. Would you bother to give a reason why J10 will have "no" chance in within visual range combat?

Whenever you pass judgement, then always back it up with your reasoning.

 

[RafaleSlayer]

Close range wvr combat bw rafale and j10? J10 has no chance

Coming to that would mean that somehow the rafale was able to penetrate so close to PAF assets without detection. That is not going to happen, any enemy air asset that comes within the firing envelop of a BVR, will be taken out multiple times over before it can even reach anywhere near a WWR scenario.

 

[gamaji]

Mig-35 checks all those boxes why would I want to be handicapped with a little jet which is almost there on paper. I have the money why I shouldn't buy
F-16 Blk 52 and above /Rafale/Eurofighter/Su-35/Mig-35
Now Rissians are testing AESA on Mig-29 too.
Pitch me JF-17 block 3

If you have money, you can go for any of those planes (F-16 Blk 52 and above /Rafale/Eurofighter/Su-35/Mig-35). But JF-17C can still has the potential to give you a fight and probably get you down too.

Rafales, touted as one of the best western 4th gen plane, could not even get a lock on JF-17 - much less than firing their much touted missiles.

No one is claiming that JF-17C is the best plane. But when we talk about the capabilities, this little bird is not behind any one.

Don't tell me its limited payload capacity. If your plane loaded with half the world cannot first see and shoot, it's doomed with all it deadly payload. Probably will kill some additional people on the ground.

 

[Psyko70]

If you have money, you can go for any of those planes (F-16 Blk 52 and above /Rafale/Eurofighter/Su-35/Mig-35). But JF-17C can still has the potential to give you a fight and probably get you down too.

Rafales, touted as one of the best western 4th gen plane, could not even get a lock on JF-17 - much less than firing their much touted missiles.

No one is claiming that JF-17C is the best plane. But when we talk about the capabilities, this little bird is not behind any one.

Don't tell me its limited payload capacity. If your plane loaded with half the world cannot first see and shoot, it's doomed with all it deadly payload. Probably will kill some additional people on the ground.

Thats what I have been saying. Jf17 being light has no value in aa combat if each pl15 has high kill probability.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

However, Pakistan leaked this contract and it came to light. This resulted in China not being able to raise the price any further in its subsequent sales efforts for the J-10CE. We can't raise the price of J-10CE by another 30-50% to sell it to other friends ......

If the details of the China-Pakistan contract on the sale of J-10CE had not been made public, CATIC would have been able to sell the J-10CE at a much higher price, thus avoiding a competitive relationship with the JF-17B3.

How we are certain that Pakistan leaked the contract ? and how we are certain that it was a legit / real document?

Secondly, why other countries would believe on a "leaked", non-verifiable source that apparently not giving full details out on weapons, maintenance etc. By all means China can charge whatever it wants from other countries. I think China is deliberately keeping cost low as it wants to capture fighter jet market first. Nobody has bought J-10C except Pakistan so far. Its only due to highly trained PAF that chinese weapons have been given a marketing push that could not have possible otherwise. Imagine, if we had lost fighter jets instead shooting down. Whole world would have come down brutal on Chinese tech regarding reliability etc, it would have exited the export markets even before making a mark. So, I think thanks to this display, China can actually raise the price (if it wants). Don't put the blame on Pakistan, it doesn't fit on it.

 

[RajaBaja]

To be precise, this rivalry was created by Pakistan.

China provided J-10CE to PAF at in-house procurement price with a large loan. This was originally a special deal given to Pakistan by China. It was top secret information between the two sides.

However, Pakistan leaked this contract and it came to light. This resulted in China not being able to raise the price any further in its subsequent sales efforts for the J-10CE. We can't raise the price of J-10CE by another 30-50% to sell it to other friends ......

If the details of the China-Pakistan contract on the sale of J-10CE had not been made public, CATIC would have been able to sell the J-10CE at a much higher price, thus avoiding a competitive relationship with the JF-17B3.

But there are no ifs ......

A product is a product, especially as it gains good marketing and reputation, it's price goes up. That's basic economics. More demand, higher price. It doesn't make sense that China can't raise the price with reputation and demand growing and with time by itself, the price goes up.

The US has raised F-16's price from what used to be near $ 50 million for block 50-52 to a range of $70-120 million for each block 70/+.

Whether the PAF price was leaked or not, I don't know. But that was when the product, J-10C, wasn't combat proven, was considered inferior to the Western systems, etc. That's no longer the case.

Today, the case is, its better than the top of the cream Europe has to offer, the Rafale!! It's established superiority over Europe's best fighter program. Rafale's shares aren't recovering from the loss.

So in today's world, everyone would expect the price increase. I expect even for Pakistan, if next batch is ordered, it will be more expensive. If China gives us the same price still, its their kindness and brotherhood.

 

[gamaji]

Thats what I have been saying. Jf17 being light has no value in aa combat if each pl15 has high kill probability.

I didn't mean that but I'll just leave it at that.

 

[ghazi52]

Watch Spectacular JF-17 Thunder Block 2 stunning display over Islamabad​

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