Tughril-Class (Type 054A/P) Frigate | Updates & Discussion

[DDG-80]

 

[huanghong]

Export variant of HQ-16 comes with reduced range
View attachment 19962

No, ha-16 and hq-16b are not the same model.
The export range of the hq-16b has not been shortened.

 

[DDG-80]

No, ha-16 and hq-16b are not the same model.
The export range of the hq-16b has not been shortened.
View attachment 19978

This SAM is in active service with the PLAN....PN is using the HQ-16E(export variant)

 

[huanghong]

This SAM is in active service with the PLAN....PN is using the HQ-16E(export variant)
View attachment 19980

Therefore, this is what is difficult to understand. The 70km HQ-16BE has long been allowed to be exported, but Pakistan chose the 40km hQ-16E.
The 70KM HQ-16B has already been in service on the 054A that was in service before 054AP.

 

[Ak01]

View attachment 19972
View attachment 19974

nonsense.

Comparing radar ranges without data of what the range is against- great start. Because yes, bigger number=better.

corvettes and light frigate comparison- again, utter nonsense lol, corvettes and light frigates is the most vague and unobjective (i cant think of the right word its 5am) description ever. Those terms mean nothing anymore other than a role classification- displacement wise there are OPVs displacing more than most vessels in the IN and PN.

The Chinese stuck with top plate because it doesn't make sense to switch a few number of vessels at the end of their production run, think spares, commonality, maintenance... though, clearly OP was more interested in sounding like an intellectual so much so he sounds like an idiot

TYPE 517/SUR17B- previous point, already found on F22P. Plus, they're early warning/volume search radars, their primary purpose is to cue the main radar, in the same way IRST would.

Type 366 is a vastly improved variant of the Mineral ME. Whoever was coping while writing that needs to get a grip

 

[Ak01]

No, ha-16 and hq-16b are not the same model.
The export range of the hq-16b has not been shortened.
View attachment 19978

HQ-16A is present on all ships inc PLAN one nobody recieved B it doesnt exxist on naval vessels

 

[huanghong]

HQ-16A is present on all ships inc PLAN one nobody recieved B it doesnt exxist on naval vessels

hq-16b exists on 054A. Please note that there are obvious differences in appearance between hq-16a and hq-16b.
Of course, some people claim that the actual name of this model is HQ-16C, but it is certain that it is definitely not HQ-16A.

 

[Pingle]

View attachment 19972
View attachment 19974

How would you compare our Talwar class frigates with Tughril..... I guess since Talwars were introduced long back they are sort of outdated against Tughril?

 

[Awwad]

How would you compare our Talwar class frigates with Tughril..... I guess since Talwars were introduced long back they are sort of outdated against Tughril?

You can see specs of Tughrils head to head with indian frigates in below video.

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IMO, Talwars have good land attack / Ashm capability but very poor air-defense. Single arm, slow firing SAM launcher and legacy russian systems for air-defense is definitely outdated.
Though HQ-16s also have their limitations but still these should be better than ancient russian air-defense systems found on Talwar. Note, some 10 years ago, chinese stripped off their Sovremenny-class destroyers from legacy russian air-defense systems. They replaced legacy russian missiles with HQ-16s.

 

[FuturePAF]

It is difficult to understand. The PLA 054a that was in service earlier has already deployed the 70-kilometer HQ-16B. Why did the Tughril-Class, which was put in service later, choose the 40-kilometer HQ-16?

Probably cheaper to fill up all the VLS or it came with the platform as part of some terms of the deal or perhaps they are waiting for the longer range FE variant to become available.

 

[DDG-80]

You can see specs of Tughrils head to head with indian frigates in below video.

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IMO, Talwars have good land attack / Ashm capability but very poor air-defense. Single arm, slow firing SAM launcher and legacy russian systems for air-defense is definitely outdated.
Though HQ-16s also have their limitations but still these should be better than ancient russian air-defense systems found on Talwar. Note, some 10 years ago, chinese stripped off their Sovremenny-class destroyers from legacy russian air-defense systems. They replaced legacy russian missiles with HQ-16s.

Talwar frigates excels in in anti-surface warfare, ASW & radar departments while Tughril scores points in anti airwarfare department. That would change though with the introduction of Talwar Batch 3 which will feature Shtil VLS but only with 24 missiles as seen on Admiral Grigorovich

Talwar class vs Tughril class or Type 054AP: Sub-Continent Frigate Faceoff

The Talwar class of frigates came in at a time when India was still facing ship building constraints after the success of Delhi class under Project 15 and Godavari + Brahmaputra classes under Proje…

battlemachines.org

 

[huanghong]

Talwar frigates excels in in anti-surface warfare, ASW & radar departments while Tughril scores points in anti airwarfare department. That would change though with the introduction of Talwar Batch 3 which will feature Shtil VLS but only with 24 missiles as seen on Admiral Grigorovich

Talwar class vs Tughril class or Type 054AP: Sub-Continent Frigate Faceoff

The Talwar class of frigates came in at a time when India was still facing ship building constraints after the success of Delhi class under Project 15 and Godavari + Brahmaputra classes under Proje…

battlemachines.org

I am skeptical about using the Chinese 054A's continued use of top-plate radar as evidence that the SR2410C's performance is not as good as the top-plate radar.
As we all know, while the Type 056 sold to Bangladesh and Algeria uses SR2410C, the Chinese Navy's Type 056 still uses the 364 radar with a search range of 100km.
This is a cost issue, not a performance issue.

 

[MH.Yang]

Talwar frigates excels in in anti-surface warfare, ASW & radar departments while Tughril scores points in anti airwarfare department. That would change though with the introduction of Talwar Batch 3 which will feature Shtil VLS but only with 24 missiles as seen on Admiral Grigorovich

Talwar class vs Tughril class or Type 054AP: Sub-Continent Frigate Faceoff

The Talwar class of frigates came in at a time when India was still facing ship building constraints after the success of Delhi class under Project 15 and Godavari + Brahmaputra classes under Proje…

battlemachines.org

I am skeptical about using the Chinese 054A's continued use of top-plate radar as evidence that the SR2410C's performance is not as good as the top-plate radar.
As we all know, while the Type 056 sold to Bangladesh and Algeria uses SR2410C, the Chinese Navy's Type 056 still uses the 364 radar with a search range of 100km.
This is a cost issue, not a performance issue.

China's type 054A is being upgraded to type 054AG, with the radar of the 054AG replaced with an active phased array radar. This is the real reason.

 

[Oscar]

Probably cheaper to fill up all the VLS or it came with the platform as part of some terms of the deal or perhaps they are waiting for the longer range FE variant to become available.

Nope - @DDG-80 has it right - these are “just enough” choices that do the bare minimum due to cost saving measures.

The twin launchers for AShMs on the other hand are a temporary situation per one source due to upgrades for the type of weapon to be carried.

Considering these are very long term assets it’s possible the the earliest upgrades may come in 4-5 years and they will reach much better capabilities eventually.

 

[MH.Yang]

Therefore, this is what is difficult to understand. The 70km HQ-16BE has long been allowed to be exported, but Pakistan chose the 40km hQ-16E.
The 70KM HQ-16B has already been in service on the 054A that was in service before 054AP.
View attachment 19982

The biggest possibility is that the Pakistan is waiting for an upgraded version, e.g., HQ16EF (160 km range)