PAF F-16 | Discussions

[rafale]

AESA provides you with frequency hopping and broad spectrum scans in all conditions. Whether the range is the same or more compared to existing radars, that's a different issue. But AMRAAM-D 1's are near 180 km missiles, while SM series missiles have 300 km range and AMRAAM D-3's are over 200 km. So it's sufficient to say that current EXPORT AESA's at minimum will give you around 200 km for a 3M2 and around or above 250 KM on 5M2 as a standard.

The main issue in today's environment is to remain functional and capable facing heavy electronic resistance. That's where AESA can come in handy. Traditionally, the ranges are also higher. Usually not disclosed due to confidentiality, or, for mere reasons of adding limitations per the buyer. For USAF, the range will be X, for Israel, some degradation to Y and for say UAE or Indonesia, below Israel to have Z range.

I don't think Pakistan will or should upgrade ALL of it's F-16's to V standard. The capability is the real issue here. The block 52 or V, will remain second tier air defense fighters, because at MAX, the US will give us AMRAAM C-8's or D-1's. These are still a generation behind in range and capability compared to our PL-15 and future PL-16's.

The rest of 45 F-16's, we should bring back to front line service if we opt for Turkish Murad. The US will allow us that upgrade. The beauty is, with Murad, we can in near future use Gokdogan and Gokbora missiles, which will be similar in range compared to PL-15's.

These are all speculations at best at the moment, there is a chance we can get D3s as well.....depends on the evolving relationship.

Remember when Pakistan first requested F-16s in 1980s, they were declined yet later the order went through. At that time F-16s were a whole lot more strategic disruptor since Neither Indians nor Chinese had anything like it.

Today giving D3s to Pakistan doesnt cause that disruption like you said we already have PL15s at that ranges combat tested. But depending on what USA wants out of Pakistan in the region, D3s are very well a possibility. But this is all assuming that the scenario of Pakistan getting F-16 V kits is a real scenario.

J-10s are currently at 20 number. There seems to be a reason to save the funds at the moment, which could be to see if F-16s can get upgrades or proceed with more J-10s and IAF doesn't really pose a threat anymore in the aerial range. At best they can lob cruise missiles. They ain't coming 200km near the border. So Pakistan has time on its side.

 

[RajaBaja]

These are all speculations at best at the moment, there is a chance we can get D3s as well.....depends on the evolving relationship.

I speak on issues that I have good exposure to. Otherwise, I avoid commenting. D-3's won't be given to Pakistan until AIM-260 or AMRAAM-E are mass produced and deployed.

America doesn't give out the latest they use to other nations. China does the same. PL-15 was an exception they made due to such a massive threat we faced.

After its own use, US gives some downgraded weapons to tier I nations like Israel and Japan, then tier II, NATO, Taiwan and India was about to join but they torpedo'd the relationship. Then comes tier III that includes Pakistan.

 

[rafale]

I speak on issues that I have good exposure to. Otherwise, I avoid commenting. D-3's won't be given to Pakistan until AIM-260 or AMRAAM-E are mass produced and deployed.

America doesn't give out the latest they use to other nations. China does the same. PL-15 was an exception they made due to such a massive threat we faced.

After its own use, US gives some downgraded weapons to tier I nations like Israel and Japan, then tier II, NATO, Taiwan and India was about to join but they torpedo'd the relationship. Then comes tier III that includes Pakistan.

I neither discrediting your knowledge or position.

I am merely as much speculating as anyone else with the given limited information and the absolute unpredictable USA-Pakistan defense procurement in the past 50 years or so.

D1 or D3s, I am sure PAF will make the best of it, AS LONG AS V UPGRADE KITS SCENARIO IS TRUE.

That is a big IF.

 

[Reichmarshal]

The cost of the up grade is prohibitive specially if its to come out of GOP pocket.

Better to go for new j10c/jf 17 block 3.

 

[RajaBaja]

I neither discrediting your knowledge or position.

I am merely as much speculating as anyone else with the given limited information and the absolute unpredictable USA-Pakistan defense procurement in the past 50 years or so.

D1 or D3s, I am sure PAF will make the best of it, AS LONG AS V UPGRADE KITS SCENARIO IS TRUE.

That is a big IF.

The main focus of having an airforce is, how many front line fighters you have ready to face the enemy to create a deterrence and a fighting force.

As of June 2025, we had near 25 J-10C's, 30 JF-17 block III's. That's 55 4.5 gen enemy facing fighters. If we put 45 older F-16's through an upgrade with Murad radar and use Gokbora / Gokhan like long range Turkish BVR's, we can turn these F-16's front line worthy again. That's now 55 Chinese + 45 older F-16's = 100 top end BVR jets. That's a huge capability increase.

As more JF-17 block III's or J-10C's are added, this number goes further up and adds into a very strong deterrence.

The rest 18 F-16's block 52's should be upgraded to F-16 V. These will have the AMRAAMs and but will go into tier II air defense role, behind the jets mentioned in above paragraph. That's fine.

Lastly, one thing we should ALL remember and focus on, the US *IF* gives AMRAAM D-1's (although C-8 are likely), even then we will be nearly 50 kilometers less in range and also less in certain internal capability vs. PL-15's, Gokbora and Gokhan's so that puts these F-16's into tier II.

That's why, the older F-16's block 15 MLU should be upgraded with Murad using Turkish BVR weapons for front line service.

What we can now get on our own from China and Turkey, will always be a level above what the US will offer us in its export version. You can't change their laws.

The cost of the up grade is prohibitive specially if its to come out of GOP pocket.

Better to go for new j10c/jf 17 block 3.

100% totally agreed in an ideal scenario. But we have to face the reality, we have a big number 75 F-16's. When at least 45 of them can be affordably upgraded to Murad and start using Turkish BVR's and become front line asset again, its much easier to do.

Otherwise we have near 150 Mirages and F-7's to retire and having 75 more jets in a tier II air defense category doesn't help much. The real expense under this plan will need to be managed for only the 18 block 52 upgrades to V.

 

[Scorpio]

Leather Combo F16 and PAF Pilot...

 

[Scorpio]

The main focus of having an airforce is, how many front line fighters you have ready to face the enemy to create a deterrence and a fighting force.

As of June 2025, we had near 25 J-10C's, 30 JF-17 block III's. That's 55 4.5 gen enemy facing fighters. If we put 45 older F-16's through an upgrade with Murad radar and use Gokbora / Gokhan like long range Turkish BVR's, we can turn these F-16's front line worthy again. That's now 55 Chinese + 45 older F-16's = 100 top end BVR jets. That's a huge capability increase.

As more JF-17 block III's or J-10C's are added, this number goes further up and adds into a very strong deterrence.

The rest 18 F-16's block 52's should be upgraded to F-16 V. These will have the AMRAAMs and but will go into tier II air defense role, behind the jets mentioned in above paragraph. That's fine.

Lastly, one thing we should ALL remember and focus on, the US *IF* gives AMRAAM D-1's (although C-8 are likely), even then we will be nearly 50 kilometers less in range and also less in certain internal capability vs. PL-15's, Gokbora and Gokhan's so that puts these F-16's into tier II.

That's why, the older F-16's block 15 MLU should be upgraded with Murad using Turkish BVR weapons for front line service.

What we can now get on our own from China and Turkey, will always be a level above what the US will offer us in its export version. You can't change their laws.



100% totally agreed in an ideal scenario. But we have to face the reality, we have a big number 75 F-16's. When at least 45 of them can be affordably upgraded to Murad and start using Turkish BVR's and become front line asset again, its much easier to do.

Otherwise we have near 150 Mirages and F-7's to retire and having 75 more jets in a tier II air defense category doesn't help much. The real expense under this plan will need to be managed for only the 18 block 52 upgrades to V.

List of fighter jets to be replaced in PAF is pretty long...

They have served much above there service life ...

Now thay are dangerous for our valuable Pilots ...

Replacing them quickly is not affordable and not even practical..

First Mirages have to go .. then F7 PGs .. after that we can think about old block F16s ...

So we have to keep our F16 air worthy and effective till that time ..

That means we have give them some upgrades as well ..

Remember F16s Airframes life time is higher then other jet in our inventory ...

 

[Reichmarshal]

The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.

 

[rafale]

The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.

Boss, i highly doubt the 100 million USD per A/C cost......just makes no sense. You can buy a brand new F-16 in that.......

With large amount of V upgrades happening, the cost would be substantially less. Lockheed knows how to sell their manjan. They will price it precisely according to what their end users can pay and afford. Plus this is not special, customer specific development cost like for UAE BLK60s. Instead, most of the break even and R&D costs would re-couped already with the large number of USAF F-16s upgrades alone.

 

[Scorpio]

The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.

The cost new block 70 revolve around 100 million.... So what advantages of upgrades... Similar cost can get you new one ..

 

[Hussain]

The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.

PAF wont be just looking at the cost per unit angle, but the "redundancy" factor as well.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Windjammer]

PAF F-16 supporting special livery for Pakistan Independence Day celebrations.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF Viper Block-52D Rehearsing For 14th August Celebrations .

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

No matter what, the F-16s are the most majestic jets to commensurate with the sanctity, honor and pride of this solemn occasion of the IAF's capitulation* at the hands of the PAF.....

*Even the IAF Chief couldn't fake his jets downing their adversaries.