Iranian UAVs | News and Discussions

They are being used practically every day. Last night, the attack involved 426 drones and 24 missiles, with the targets concentrated in Kyiv, Ivano-Frankivsk (western part of the country), and Kharkiv.

In Kyiv, the targets were drone component factories.

In Ivano-Frankivsk, depots of military equipment supplied by NATO.

In Kharkiv, logistical support facilities for Ukrainian troops in the Donbass.
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Okay. If this is how Russia going ahead with this war, why is it not getting any further lands ? I mean 400+ drones in single night. This should have worked. Why are we seeing them in same positions they were 7 months ago ?

It's a genuine question.
 
Okay. If this is how Russia going ahead with this war, why is it not getting any further lands ? I mean 400+ drones in single night. This should have worked. Why are we seeing them in same positions they were 7 months ago ?

It's a genuine question.
Russians are waging worst kind of war against Ukraine, their focus right now is complete destruction of Ukraine industrial base.

I don't think they want rapid advance , they just want to destroy Ukraine state or completely neutralize it for next 50 years.
 
Russians are waging worst kind of war against Ukraine, their focus right now is complete destruction of Ukraine industrial base.

I don't think they want rapid advance , they just want to destroy Ukraine state or completely neutralize it for next 50 years.
You´re falling in western propaganda.
There are tactical and strategical reasons to act like Russian army.

1º.- Ukraine relies on importing small components and inside the country they assemble naval drones, OWA drones and surveillance UAV. That is the reason why Russia is sistematically destroying any meaningful industrial plant.

2º.- Ukraine is fighting a trench WWI style war. If Russia makes a frontal attack in those mined, and very protected battlefields, casualties will rise dramatically.

That is the reason why they´re advancing slowly, with high support of artillery and in small groups, using long range CAS (with gliding heavyweight bombs) and thereby sistematically destroying villages in the front.

Zelensky choosed this kind of war. And Russia from Stalingrad to Syria, knows very well how to clean a village block by block. And worse all, they can afford looses that no other western country would.
 
Okay. If this is how Russia going ahead with this war, why is it not getting any further lands ? I mean 400+ drones in single night. This should have worked. Why are we seeing them in same positions they were 7 months ago ?

It's a genuine question.
Drones are easily intercepted, and moreover, half of them are decoys.

There is no progress because the Russians have not yet found a way to dismantle the Ukrainian reconnaissance fire complex, the integrated drone-guided fire system, which is the only thing truly holding the Russians back on the ground.
 
Drones are easily intercepted, and moreover, half of them are decoys.

There is no progress because the Russians have not yet found a way to dismantle the Ukrainian reconnaissance fire complex, the integrated drone-guided fire system, which is the only thing truly holding the Russians back on the ground.

Russia simply doesn’t have enough troops to take large amounts of territory.

In military school they teach you an entrenched defender has 3-4x advantage. Thus if your attacking make sure your attacking force is at least 3x the defending force in size. Even in Iraq war (like Battle of Fallujah) the U.S. had a 3x+ attack force vs defending insurgents

Where on the Russian frontline does Russia have that type of manpower advantage? No where. In fact in several spots Ukraine has that advantage (at least earlier in the wa this was true) This is why the war has grinded to a trench warfare stalemate.

One side is doing full mobilization while the other side is using 200K troops on a rotational basis + mercenaries.
 
Russia simply doesn’t have enough troops to take large amounts of territory.

In military school they teach you an entrenched defender has 3-4x advantage. Thus if your attacking make sure your attacking force is at least 3x the defending force in size. Even in Iraq war (like Battle of Fallujah) the U.S. had a 3x+ attack force vs defending insurgents

Where on the Russian frontline does Russia have that type of manpower advantage? No where. In fact in several spots Ukraine has that advantage (at least earlier in the wa this was true) This is why the war has grinded to a trench warfare stalemate.

One side is doing full mobilization while the other side is using 200K troops on a rotational basis + mercenaries.
Russia certainly doesn't have enough units to advance on an operational scale across all frontlines, but they do have enough units to force a breakthrough in some sectors of the frontline if they so choose. The real problem is that this isn't what will make a breakthrough happen. Throwing in more infantry won't do any good if the supposed Russian advance line is fully defended by Ukraine's drone defense line, which is what's keeping the frontline in a stalemate.

Ukrainian manpower advantage was important initially, but since 2023, they have been experiencing a mobilization crisis, and the failed counteroffensive in the summer of 2023 further worsened the situation for Ukraine. That's why Zaluzhny called for 500,000 troops to be mobilized in November 2023, but was reprimanded by Zelenskyy for portraying the real situation as a stalemate and the ongoing war, but instead seeking new ways to combat the Russians. He literally wrote an entire article about it.

Today, the situation is a Ukrainian manpower crisis and an advantage in some sectors of the front line for the Russians, who are unable to advance due to the Ukrainian reconnaissance complex. Yes, the Russians are deploying over 700,000 troops in Ukraine, data confirmed by the Ukrainian side, which means they essentially have enough manpower to advance. But there's no way to exploit this advantage without doing what I've already mentioned. Still, the Russians have concentrated 160,000 troops in the Pokrovsk direction alone.
 
Russia certainly doesn't have enough units to advance on an operational scale across all frontlines, but they do have enough units to force a breakthrough in some sectors of the frontline if they so choose. The real problem is that this isn't what will make a breakthrough happen. Throwing in more infantry won't do any good if the supposed Russian advance line is fully defended by Ukraine's drone defense line, which is what's keeping the frontline in a stalemate.

Ukrainian manpower advantage was important initially, but since 2023, they have been experiencing a mobilization crisis, and the failed counteroffensive in the summer of 2023 further worsened the situation for Ukraine. That's why Zaluzhny called for 500,000 troops to be mobilized in November 2023, but was reprimanded by Zelenskyy for portraying the real situation as a stalemate and the ongoing war, but instead seeking new ways to combat the Russians. He literally wrote an entire article about it.

Today, the situation is a Ukrainian manpower crisis and an advantage in some sectors of the front line for the Russians, who are unable to advance due to the Ukrainian reconnaissance complex. Yes, the Russians are deploying over 700,000 troops in Ukraine, data confirmed by the Ukrainian side, which means they essentially have enough manpower to advance. But there's no way to exploit this advantage without doing what I've already mentioned. Still, the Russians have concentrated 160,000 troops in the Pokrovsk direction alone.

Do you have proof of this 700,000 claim? Because many battlefield videos you see groups of 5-10 maybe 20 soldiers.

Even the U.S. had tough time doing the “surge” in Afghanistan and Iraq. Keeping supply units to 700,000 units is a massive endeavor. If they had 700,000 soldiers as you claim then Ukraine could never have entered and held Russian territory for any significant period of time. Manpower alone won’t break the gridlock, but it along with an airforce that is hesitant to penetrate enemy airspace and lack of air superiority (dominance) of Ukraine skies means this war will go on until

A) Russia agrees to ceasefire

B) US/NaTo give up arming Ukraine

So which comes first?
 
"In military school they teach you an entrenched defender has 3-4x advantage. Thus if your attacking make sure your attacking force is at least 3x the defending force in size. Even in Iraq war (like Battle of Fallujah) the U.S. had a 3x+ attack force vs defending insurgents"
The statement is true, what a military rule! The situation is that the Russian strategy is completely different from what many here think, you are hugely mistaken.
The strategy of the Russian army is to cause the enemy as much loss as possible. They have a 3-4x superiority in artillery, air force and all types of weapons. According to the current strategy, the area to be occupied is bombed until 80% of the defenders and equipment are destroyed, after which they invade the area from 2-3 directions. If the enemy attacks, they retreat to their fortified positions and wait for it, and continue according to the previous sentence. The Russians' goal is to inflict such a level of manpower and material destruction that Ukraine will be knocked out for at least 60 years, in addition, of course, to completely annex the Russian-populated areas and the coast, and to occupy the more valuable areas. It is also natural that the Russians do not want to conclude a ceasefire or peace because then Ukraine could become a NATO member. The Ukrainians do not realize that they need peace at all costs, even at the cost of territorial loss, so that they can breathe and enter the protective shadow of NATO.
 
Do you have proof of this 700,000 claim? Because many battlefield videos you see groups of 5-10 maybe 20 soldiers.

Even the U.S. had tough time doing the “surge” in Afghanistan and Iraq. Keeping supply units to 700,000 units is a massive endeavor. If they had 700,000 soldiers as you claim then Ukraine could never have entered and held Russian territory for any significant period of time. Manpower alone won’t break the gridlock, but it along with an airforce that is hesitant to penetrate enemy airspace and lack of air superiority (dominance) of Ukraine skies means this war will go on until

A) Russia agrees to ceasefire

B) US/NaTo give up arming Ukraine

So which comes first?
Zelensky's own statement:
In a statement made in late June, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed that Ukraine was facing a group consisting of 695,000 Russian soldiers. However, officials from Ukraine's Foreign Intelligence Service told Liga.net that more than 700,000 Russians are now engaged in combat against Ukraine.
The Russian tactic of small assaults derives from the reality of the battlefield, where there is an omnipresence of drones but a lack of manpower on the Ukrainian side. Thus, Ukraine can maintain the stalemate and prevent major Russian advances, because no Russian commander will approve of even an entire company attacking and suffering high losses when the omnipresent threat of drones, both reconnaissance and strike, still exists.

I suggest you read these two articles to understand the reality of the battlefield and the reasons why both sides are not making major advances:
 
"In military school they teach you an entrenched defender has 3-4x advantage. Thus if your attacking make sure your attacking force is at least 3x the defending force in size. Even in Iraq war (like Battle of Fallujah) the U.S. had a 3x+ attack force vs defending insurgents"
Just as an addendum:

The American invasion force in Iraq was actually smaller than the defending force:

I already explained in the post below about Rumsfeld and his obsession with RMA; he actually wanted even fewer troops.


What the Russians did in Ukraine was exactly what the Americans did in Iraq. It was exactly the same thing.

Iraq was a gigantic nation with nearly 40 million people and a reported army of 1.3 million soldiers.
sasa.JPG
The ground invasion force was smaller than the one that invaded Ukraine; The Americans had 4.5 maneuver force divisions: 3rd Infantry Division (mechanized infantry/armored), 1st Marine Division (amphibious with almost no armor), 1st Armored Division (all armor), 2/3 of the 82nd, 2/3 of the 101st (light infantry, no armor).

To put this force in perspective, the total force was smaller than what VII Corps had during Operation Desert Storm to liberate Kuwait, which was only one of five corps-sized units. The Marine Corps command in ODS alone had 2.5 divisions. In total, that coalition force ODA had about 15 divisions, most of them mechanized infantry or armored, and this was not to take a country, but simply to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait.

In terms of Iraq, the invasion force was VERY small. This was noted beforehand and during the invasion as being too small, but the Americans were fortunate that it worked (especially since the 4th ID didn't participate). Rumsfeld was a fanatic for the "Revolution in Military Affairs" and had even contemplated only about 1.5 divisions to topple Saddam, but was persuaded to a slightly larger ground attack package.

In terms of strategy, they followed almost the same plan in Iraq as the Russians did in Ukraine. CENTCOM and all subordinate commands were openly briefed by the White House and Pentagon (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz) at the top level to expect no, if any, heavy resistance. They were instructed to advance quickly on Baghdad and bypass any resistance along the way (except for the Marines in Nasiriyah, which was partially attacked only because an Army maintenance company took a wrong turn and ran into it and got screwed). They didn't reach Baghdad in three weeks because they were quick; they did it because it was the plan. Reach Baghdad and Saddam's regime fell. They were very lucky because Iraq barely fought to stop the invasion and defend the country (which only happened when the insurgency began).

A good comparison is between the OIF invasion and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022; both were founded on the belief at the highest levels that the enemy wouldn't fight back. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz were right, which is why Saddam's government fell in 21 days. Putin and the FSB were wrong, which is why we are in the fourth year of war.

First, there was no real plan to defend Iraq because Saddam was convinced it was all a bluff by Bush and refused to allow subordinates to prepare. It didn't help that Saddam went underground and barely communicated after the assassination attempt at Dora Farm in the nick of time.

Second, they destroyed/jammed their C4I network so they couldn't radio for planning and maneuvering when the invasion began.

Third, this was further facilitated by the fact they were moving faster than their intelligence could react, with all their information often 2-3 days late. They were moving fast, bypassing resistance, and getting to Baghdad as quickly as possible.

Fourth, the Iraqi army as a whole never recovered from the beating it took at the ODS in 1991. Their equipment was poor and outdated, and sanctions prevented them from having the funds or ability to import better equipment. Even if they wanted to fight, they could never resist.

Fifth, the Iraqi people's hearts weren't in it; they wouldn't fight much, if at all, for Saddam. Almost the entire Iraqi conscript army was Shiite, who deserted en masse at the first opportunity. Occasionally, a battalion here or a brigade there would mount a partial defense or counterattack (usually by the Republican Guard), but these were defeated relatively easily. The most serious resistance was only from Saddam Fedeyeen along the supply lines, and this was largely RPG-7-based and harassing in nature.

If Russia hadn't done exactly the same thing several times in the past—an armored column blitzkrieg displaying strength against no expected opposition (1956—Hungary, 1968—Czechoslovakia, 1994—Chechnya, 2008—Georgia, 2014—Crimea), I would have said that Putin and his MOD lackeys actually copied the US model for the invasion of Iraq.

Even some military analysts were calling the invasion of Ukraine a major "Thunder Run"-type operation, which was the very non-doctrinal nickname for how the 3rd ID entered Baghdad in 2003 to "break the resistance," but could also be used to describe the overall "shock and awe" invasion plan.

The ONLY difference between the OIF and Russia's invasion of Ukraine is that the intelligence estimate of Iraqi resistance during the invasion was correct, and the Russians' was grossly inaccurate. However, the Americans completely botched the intelligence estimate of the chances of an insurgency. And they ignored the insurgency once it began at the political/strategic level for most of the year, demonstrating once again that they did not always respond well to events in theater.
 
Last edited:
Just as an addendum:

The American invasion force in Iraq was actually smaller than the defending force:

I already explained in the post below about Rumsfeld and his obsession with RMA; he actually wanted even fewer troops.


What the Russians did in Ukraine was exactly what the Americans did in Iraq. It was exactly the same thing.

Iraq was a gigantic nation with nearly 40 million people and a reported army of 1.3 million soldiers.
View attachment 138193
The ground invasion force was smaller than the one that invaded Ukraine; The Americans had 4.5 maneuver force divisions: 3rd Infantry Division (mechanized infantry/armored), 1st Marine Division (amphibious with almost no armor), 1st Armored Division (all armor), 2/3 of the 82nd, 2/3 of the 101st (light infantry, no armor).

To put this force in perspective, the total force was smaller than what VII Corps had during Operation Desert Storm to liberate Kuwait, which was only one of five corps-sized units. The Marine Corps command in ODS alone had 2.5 divisions. In total, that coalition force ODA had about 15 divisions, most of them mechanized infantry or armored, and this was not to take a country, but simply to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait.

In terms of Iraq, the invasion force was VERY small. This was noted beforehand and during the invasion as being too small, but the Americans were fortunate that it worked (especially since the 4th ID didn't participate). Rumsfeld was a fanatic for the "Revolution in Military Affairs" and had even contemplated only about 1.5 divisions to topple Saddam, but was persuaded to a slightly larger ground attack package.

In terms of strategy, they followed almost the same plan in Iraq as the Russians did in Ukraine. CENTCOM and all subordinate commands were openly briefed by the White House and Pentagon (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz) at the top level to expect no, if any, heavy resistance. They were instructed to advance quickly on Baghdad and bypass any resistance along the way (except for the Marines in Nasiriyah, which was partially attacked only because an Army maintenance company took a wrong turn and ran into it and got screwed). They didn't reach Baghdad in three weeks because they were quick; they did it because it was the plan. Reach Baghdad and Saddam's regime fell. They were very lucky because Iraq barely fought to stop the invasion and defend the country (which only happened when the insurgency began).

A good comparison is between the OIF invasion and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022; both were founded on the belief at the highest levels that the enemy wouldn't fight back. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz were right, which is why Saddam's government fell in 21 days. Putin and the FSB were wrong, which is why we are in the fourth year of war.

First, there was no real plan to defend Iraq because Saddam was convinced it was all a bluff by Bush and refused to allow subordinates to prepare. It didn't help that Saddam went underground and barely communicated after the assassination attempt at Dora Farm in the nick of time.

Second, they destroyed/jammed their C4I network so they couldn't radio for planning and maneuvering when the invasion began.

Third, this was further facilitated by the fact they were moving faster than their intelligence could react, with all their information often 2-3 days late. They were moving fast, bypassing resistance, and getting to Baghdad as quickly as possible.

Fourth, the Iraqi army as a whole never recovered from the beating it took at the ODS in 1991. Their equipment was poor and outdated, and sanctions prevented them from having the funds or ability to import better equipment. Even if they wanted to fight, they could never resist.

Fifth, the Iraqi people's hearts weren't in it; they wouldn't fight much, if at all, for Saddam. Almost the entire Iraqi conscript army was Shiite, who deserted en masse at the first opportunity. Occasionally, a battalion here or a brigade there would mount a partial defense or counterattack (usually by the Republican Guard), but these were defeated relatively easily. The most serious resistance was only from Saddam Fedeyeen along the supply lines, and this was largely RPG-7-based and harassing in nature.

If Russia hadn't done exactly the same thing several times in the past—an armored column blitzkrieg displaying strength against no expected opposition (1956—Hungary, 1968—Czechoslovakia, 1994—Chechnya, 2008—Georgia, 2014—Crimea), I would have said that Putin and his MOD lackeys actually copied the US model for the invasion of Iraq.

Even some military analysts were calling the invasion of Ukraine a major "Thunder Run"-type operation, which was the very non-doctrinal nickname for how the 3rd ID entered Baghdad in 2003 to "break the resistance," but could also be used to describe the overall "shock and awe" invasion plan.

The ONLY difference between the OIF and Russia's invasion of Ukraine is that the intelligence estimate of Iraqi resistance during the invasion was correct, and the Russians' was grossly inaccurate. However, the Americans completely botched the intelligence estimate of the chances of an insurgency. And they ignored the insurgency once it began at the political/strategic level for most of the year, demonstrating once again that they did not always respond well to events in theater.

can we stay on topic please
 
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what happened to Karrar ?

What happened to the Gaza Drone?
Did they really think that it would reach Israel intact for real?
 
What happened to the Gaza Drone?
Did they really think that it would reach Israel intact for real?
Well to be fair Gaza drone naming was symbolic at best these type of drones are best for patrolling and targeting insurgents who aren’t equipped with capable air defenses karrar I honestly thought if they kept investing into it and kept upgrading they would have had a capable drone bomber can you imagine it being able to fly past Mach 1 hugging the terrain like a cruise missile but have the able to fly like a drone bobbing and weaving karrar 3.0 might have been a real version of the mock up of qaher drone
 
Well to be fair Gaza drone naming was symbolic at best these type of drones are best for patrolling and targeting insurgents who aren’t equipped with capable air defenses karrar I honestly thought if they kept investing into it and kept upgrading they would have had a capable drone bomber can you imagine it being able to fly past Mach 1 hugging the terrain like a cruise missile but have the able to fly like a drone bobbing and weaving karrar 3.0 might have been a real version of the mock up of qaher drone
Who builds a drone with an operational radius of 2,500 km, 21m wingspan and turboprop engine to fight insurgency or for patrolling? lol
 

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