Jinnah Class Frigate | Updates & Discussion

[falcon34]

But yeah, I think the AZB boosted setup is actually a pretty viable solution to shoot and overwhelm.

The us is also looking at a similar solution. It’s called quick sink.

Even that's old tech Azb SDB has 200+km range, is stealth, AI swarming capabilities. I don't why we didn't saw them in Action over India, AZB boosted was even used against Iran

 

[RajaBaja]

With fast induction of first 4 Hangors and upgrades to existing Agostas, that'll be 5-6 submarines available at any time.....enough to keep major IN vessels away from coast line. Need to protect Karachi at all costs, which means PAF will need a dedicated maritime strike force, Mirage from Masroor AB won't cut it......and of course Medium to long range AD

PN is gearing up for a massive transformation. CPEC is going live soon and PN has submitted official growth needs and plans the GOP asked for. Funding will be made available for strategic acquisitions. I think I've provided a small strategy on this thread or on some other thread.

Here is what we need in short term by 2030 and then full acquisition hopefully by 2035 as it's our official goal also.

Short Term - Before 2030: To stop any aggression from IN:
- 6 attack Submarines. Missile attack capability is a must. 4 deployed near India-Pakistan ocean borders and 2 somewhere in the EEZ for attack roles and be distant from IN's Poseidon and other ASW assets.
- 1 leased (for now) nuclear Submarine. Deep water deployment around EEZ are, for second strike capability in case of high escalations.
- Acquisition of 5 destroyers and 7 more frigates with larger 64 or more VLS. This will form 5 destroyer based task forces deployed all across our EEZ in a 3-4 ship formation.

By 2035:
- 10-12 missile attack Subs + 2 nuclear subs for 2nd strike capability.
- 50 Combat ships, equaling to 10 destroyers lead task forces with 5 ships in every formation.
- 2-3 squadrons of J-10C dedicated to Naval operations. Or 1 squadron stealth and 1 J-10C's and 1 JF-17 block III.

 

[rafale]

PN is gearing up for a massive transformation. CPEC is going live soon and PN has submitted official growth needs and plans the GOP asked for. Funding will be made available for strategic acquisitions. I think I've provided a small strategy on this thread or on some other thread.

Here is what we need in short term by 2030 and then full acquisition hopefully by 2035 as it's our official goal also.

Short Term - Before 2030: To stop any aggression from IN:
- 6 attack Submarines. Missile attack capability is a must. 4 deployed near India-Pakistan ocean borders and 2 somewhere in the EEZ for attack roles and be distant from IN's Poseidon and other ASW assets.
- 1 leased (for now) nuclear Submarine. Deep water deployment around EEZ are, for second strike capability in case of high escalations.
- Acquisition of 5 destroyers and 7 more frigates with larger 64 or more VLS. This will form 5 destroyer based task forces deployed all across our EEZ in a 3-4 ship formation.

By 2035:
- 10-12 missile attack Subs + 2 nuclear subs for 2nd strike capability.
- 50 Combat ships, equaling to 10 destroyers lead task forces with 5 ships in every formation.
- 2-3 squadrons of J-10C dedicated to Naval operations. Or 1 squadron stealth and 1 J-10C's and 1 JF-17 block III.

Bhai, you will be lucky to achieve even 50% of this by 2035, unless Pakistan's exports and economy start growing at 6% per year minimum..........

 

[Pak-Warrior]

CPEC is going live soon

What are sources of your claims ? You are saying everything as if YOU are Field Marshal.

Show us graphs / charts of Chinese investments in last 5 yrs. Is it increasing or decreasing. Pass every statement with proofs & evidence. The chinese member @Michael was saying on other thread that Pak-China relations are facing decline,

However, it is currently subject to significant restrictions.
Analyzing numerous official reports, the Chinese government is taking numerous actions to reduce the functionality of CPEC (by opening more channels to reduce its effectiveness).

My observation:

During the current Pakistani government (Public government and shadow government):
1. China will not launch any new major long-term investment projects;
2. Already launched major long-term investment projects will be adjusted based on actual conditions. Some will be suspended, while others will continue;

and I fully agree to him because of worst security management and US appeasement policy.

Passing statements without backup references / proofs mean nothing. In numerous places you have claimed that CPEC is going on live and you have "instructed" GOP to do this and that. Buy this, do this, do that. I mean what are you trying to do here? You are not Kim ruling over North Korea that every statement will become reality.

PN has submitted official growth needs and plans the GOP asked for.

How do you know? Give reference links. What plans? Any official release? Don't tell me you have insiders and you work for govt and all that bs.

Funding will be made available for strategic acquisitions.

Oh ok sir. Ofcourse if you say so, funding will be released because Raja sahab has passed a decree.

I think I've provided a small strategy on this thread or on some other thread.

No body gives a F... unless everything is passing statements without any factual information. Analysis / Strategy is always worth reading if its based on facts. Yours is all based on assumptions. Even if you are suggesting something there should be strong reasoning for that.

- Acquisition of 5 destroyers and 7 more frigates with larger 64 or more VLS. This will form 5 destroyer based task forces deployed all across our EEZ in a 3-4 ship formation.

By 2035:
- 10-12 missile attack Subs + 2 nuclear subs for 2nd strike capability.

You cannot pass such statements without writing "Raja Sahab's Wishlist" on top of it. So everyone knows how to take that content.




Don't take it personal, I save seen such posts for so long. the discussions will be far more helpful and readable if they are based on facts. Facts can only be established if you put some effort into it. Cheers!

 

[RajaBaja]

Bhai, you will be lucky to achieve even 50% of this by 2035, unless Pakistan's exports and economy start growing at 6% per year minimum..........

Well, PN is about to go through this massive transformation. Whether we think its do-able or not. We will arrange for funds somehow. Nothing is above the national security of Pakistan and when you have an existential threat and that too, already defeated, sitting in crazy manic angry mood, you need to be prepared. So you can take or leave some items, but roughly what I wrote, is going to come to PN. It's the need to defend our sovereignty. Not a shopping list.

Also, I don't know if you read my posts on economy. 2028 is the year. We'll re-balance our economy and officially, it will go past $ 600 billion GDP.

The target is post 2028 to have a sustained GDP between 5-7%. 5 year minimum sustained and with some years taking us to 7 and some back to 5. If the US works with us on outsourcing IT or relocating about 25% of IT from India to Pakistan, we would have years hitting 8% IA. But our future direction is looking excellent. Target II by 2035 is near or at 1 trillion economy.

 

[Michael]

The chinese member @Michael was saying on other thread that Pak-China relations are facing decline,

There's a difference in understanding here.
My view is that China-Pakistan economic relations are currently at a state of somewhat suspended tension. Using the term "facing decline" is inappropriate.
===============================
Previously, several vicious terrorist attacks targeting Chinese nationals occurred in Pakistan, sparking widespread controversy within China. At the time, numerous people on Chinese social media called on the Chinese government to send the People's Liberation Army (PAP) to Pakistan to protect the Chinese people. Later, rumors circulated that the Pakistani government strongly opposed China's deployment of the PAP.

Ultimately, the Chinese government suppressed public opinion on the issue. However, opposition to Pakistan has gradually grown among the Chinese public.
China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued orange and red alerts for Pakistan.

Currently, Chinese citizens in Pakistan are subject to strict restrictions on their movements.
They are restricted to a specific area. If they need to leave this area, they must be escorted by armed Pakistani police officers and must travel in bulletproof vehicles provided by the police. All expenses are borne by the Chinese company or individual.
Chinese citizens are strictly prohibited from entering red alert areas (Gwadar is located in this area).

Under these circumstances, economic development between China and Pakistan is impossible.

However, China-Pakistan cooperation at the political and military levels remains unaffected by this situation.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

There's a difference in understanding here.
My view is that China-Pakistan economic relations are currently at a state of somewhat suspended tension. Using the term "facing decline" is inappropriate.
===============================
Previously, several vicious terrorist attacks targeting Chinese nationals occurred in Pakistan, sparking widespread controversy within China. At the time, numerous people on Chinese social media called on the Chinese government to send the People's Liberation Army (PAP) to Pakistan to protect the Chinese people. Later, rumors circulated that the Pakistani government strongly opposed China's deployment of the PAP.

Ultimately, the Chinese government suppressed public opinion on the issue. However, opposition to Pakistan has gradually grown among the Chinese public.
China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued orange and red alerts for Pakistan.

Currently, Chinese citizens in Pakistan are subject to strict restrictions on their movements.
They are restricted to a specific area. If they need to leave this area, they must be escorted by armed Pakistani police officers and must travel in bulletproof vehicles provided by the police. All expenses are borne by the Chinese company or individual.
Chinese citizens are strictly prohibited from entering red alert areas (Gwadar is located in this area).

Under these circumstances, economic development between China and Pakistan is impossible.

However, China-Pakistan cooperation at the political and military levels remains unaffected by this situation.

Orange & Red alert for Pakistan from Chinese government says everything about state of CPEC and that's the crux of my post. If economy has to develop, there should be total security. Then a lot of reforms, drastic changes needed in how the country is being played as of now. Decades of hardwork and sheer determination is needed to change things around. There is no magic pill that by 2028 our economy will turn around by its own.

 

[Michael]

Orange & Red alert for Pakistan from Chinese government says everything about state of CPEC and that's the crux of my post. If economy has to develop, there should be total security. Then a lot of reforms, drastic changes needed in how the country is being played as of now. Decades of hardwork and sheer determination is needed to change things around. There is no magic pill that by 2028 our economy will turn around by its own.

Yes.
China-Pakistan economic development will not proceed until the Chinese government allays the alert.
Please note: This alert applies to the entire territory of Pakistan.

This is a screenshot I just took from the official website.
Simplified translation:
1. Red Alert: Balochistan(excluding the Chagai region), K-P
2. Orange Alert: Entire Pakistan (excluding red alert areas)

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Yes.
China-Pakistan economic development will not proceed until the Chinese government allays the alert.
Please note: This alert applies to the entire territory of Pakistan.

@RajaBaja please take note from above.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

With the completion of Hangor Program we would have 11 ocean going subs that will be all AIP equipped. So the program for 12 subs is almost there.

Quad packing SAM will for most of the part alleviate the issue of weak PDMS.

Operational cost of destroyers is humongous for a Navy like PN. Build your air assets and beef up the maritime strike squadrons with glide weapons and long range BVR. That will take care of most of the problems of PN.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

A decent Frigate with 3300 Tonnage displacement and 8 ASHM missile onboard with VLS airdefence

 

[Quwa]

A decent Frigate with 3300 Tonnage displacement and 8 ASHM missile onboard with VLS airdefence

View attachment 141693

Interesting... They've opted for CODAG rather than CODAD.

 

[PakistaniDefender]

Too much too heavy

Lighter faster FFG with 32 x VLS are much better for Pakistan

More like Type 054B

But with LRSAM

 

[rafale]

Interesting... They've opted for CODAG rather than CODAD.

Why would you say that?

With CODAG you have gas turbine for faster sprints without taking up too much space and maintaining fuel efficiency. Plus GTs are generally quieter than reciprocating diesels, not to mention modern ones are a lot more reliable. Diesels still have tendency to breakdown with all the moving parts (cranks, rods, pistons, seals etc.)

 

[Ak01]

Why would you say that?

With CODAG you have gas turbine for faster sprints without taking up too much space and maintaining fuel efficiency. Plus GTs are generally quieter than reciprocating diesels, not to mention modern ones are a lot more reliable. Diesels still have tendency to breakdown with all the moving parts (cranks, rods, pistons, seals etc.)

interesting bc pn has alway picked codad