Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[falcon34]

Are there any working Taimoors or is it just for defence exhibitions?
also the route to SCALP is not open for us so why dont we go to some other
source like the EDGE group of UAE their main base is engineers from denel...

Taimoor is just for export, RAAD-2 is mainstay long range SOW for Nuclear delivery and Strategic conventional precision strikes.
AZB 81 SDB, Alrasoob and Al Murtajiz will be the Next gen SOWs of PAF.
RN it's the Booster REK, REk and Raad -2 for strategic strikes.

 

[Oscar]

@Oscar Interesting sharing.....

Regarding Dr Samar Mubarakmand...........that guy is a typical example of how someone so knowledgeable and experienced in one field cannot be considered equally capable in another domain.......that Thar Coal Gasification project was a complete 150 Million USD worth of waste and a botched attempt. Lying in ruins and worth scrap as of now.

He should have remained R&D head for nuclear/missiles related industry.

Last I remember a decade or so ago his son was now in the industry. Maybe @farooqbhai or @Quwa know more. His wife is also a PhD in mathematics if I am not mistaken.
Smart folks.

 

[JamD]

Last I remember a decade or so ago his son was now in the industry. Maybe @farooqbhai or @Quwa know more. His wife is also a PhD in mathematics if I am not mistaken.
Smart folks.

Raza Samar - chairman NESCOM. One of the few control engineers of Pakistan. Some say he has been promoted and made his way because of his name but they also say he is sufficiently talented.

 

[RandomThoughts7]

Hi, this is a great article. Pakistan needs to focus on ballistic missiles to hit targets and not just as nuclear delivery vehicles. Hence the reason for Pakistan setting up the rocket force.

Kindky please note the point made about Russian S400s and their interception rates.

“Bigger Than ATACMS”: Ukraine’s Cutting-Edge Ballistic Missile Reportedly Enters Combat Use

Developed since May 2022, Ukraine's latest missile boasts advanced precision and power, marking a significant advancement in its defense capabilities.

united24media.com

 

[White Privilege]

Hi, this is a great article. Pakistan needs to focus on ballistic missiles to hit targets and not just as nuclear delivery vehicles. Hence the reason for Pakistan setting up the rocket force.

Kindky please note the point made about Russian S400s and their interception rates.

“Bigger Than ATACMS”: Ukraine’s Cutting-Edge Ballistic Missile Reportedly Enters Combat Use

Developed since May 2022, Ukraine's latest missile boasts advanced precision and power, marking a significant advancement in its defense capabilities.

united24media.com

beside Rocket force, now the need is to have radars with 'firefinder ability' to track incoming enemy projectiles/missiles. In the past it was only needed on LOC for detecting enemy artillery positions, but it will be needed all along the frontier.

 

[rafale]

Last I remember a decade or so ago his son was now in the industry. Maybe @farooqbhai or @Quwa know more. His wife is also a PhD in mathematics if I am not mistaken.
Smart folks.

Brother,

PhD is no guarantee of smartness........this is the biggest problem...people think you have to be smart to do PhD....its not unless you are doing in a very esoteric physics/mathematics field. You just need the grit to pull through the lowly paid 4-5 years of academic work. Sure, there are fields that pay really well once you graduate, but those are for top researchers in top universities and an in demand field.

Companies like Nvidia, Meta, Amazon etc will pay top dollar if you are PhD in autonomous systems/ AI/ML etc, but no one is paying that if you have PhD in Western European Art music (case in point, UChicago culling such PhD programs)

Second is that most of the time PhD students have not had real industrial experience. Real experience means managing budgets and costs. When you are working for a specialized unit like Nuclear weapons development, cost is not an issue because an entire nation has agreed to eat grass and instead fund your nuclear weapons no matter what cost you have to pay on black market to procure nuclear materials, delivery systems, electronics etc.

In real industry, you do a full bankable feasibility reports before you even consider starting a project. Everything is cost related.

Just an example, i work in power generation industry. Helped design, build, commission automation systems for three IPPs in Pakistan over the last decade (2 billion USD project value projects). Someone was selling me his manjan of AI and IoT. I asked him, can this system tell me specifically when something is going to break? Because i can then quantify the loss and hence maybe justify the cost of purchasing that AI/ML analytics product. He couldn't, because in reality no system can, yet.

Companies don't have the luxury of throwing money around like governments can do.

Dr Samar is that kind of guy, who never had account of expenses and costs and return on investment in his mind.

I have utmost respect for all the original Nuclear program pioneers, AQ Khan got a lot of credit, but he wasn't alone. There were hundreds for people making it happen. But Specialized government research and real industrial project work is worlds apart.

This is also why Indian babus and ustad engineers have not delivered any real combat worthy Tejas in over 40 years. Because there is literally no KPI and no career downsides to just kicking the can down the road. Try that in a corporate environment.......and pretty sure you will be booted out

 

[NA71]

Brother,

PhD is no guarantee of smartness........this is the biggest problem...people think you have to be smart to do PhD....its not unless you are doing in a very esoteric physics/mathematics field. You just need the grit to pull through the lowly paid 4-5 years of academic work. Sure, there are fields that pay really well once you graduate, but those are for top researchers in top universities and an in demand field.

Companies like Nvidia, Meta, Amazon etc will pay top dollar if you are PhD in autonomous systems/ AI/ML etc, but no one is paying that if you have PhD in Western European Art music (case in point, UChicago culling such PhD programs)

Second is that most of the time PhD students have not had real industrial experience. Real experience means managing budgets and costs. When you are working for a specialized unit like Nuclear weapons development, cost is not an issue because an entire nation has agreed to eat grass and instead fund your nuclear weapons no matter what cost you have to pay on black market to procure nuclear materials, delivery systems, electronics etc.

In real industry, you do a full bankable feasibility reports before you even consider starting a project. Everything is cost related.

Just an example, i work in power generation industry. Helped design, build, commission automation systems for three IPPs in Pakistan over the last decade (2 billion USD project value projects). Someone was selling me his manjan of AI and IoT. I asked him, can this system tell me specifically when something is going to break? Because i can then quantify the loss and hence maybe justify the cost of purchasing that AI/ML analytics product. He couldn't, because in reality no system can, yet.

Companies don't have the luxury of throwing money around like governments can do.

Dr Samar is that kind of guy, who never had account of expenses and costs and return on investment in his mind.

I have utmost respect for all the original Nuclear program pioneers, AQ Khan got a lot of credit, but he wasn't alone. There were hundreds for people making it happen. But Specialized government research and real industrial project work is worlds apart.

This is also why Indian babus and ustad engineers have not delivered any real combat worthy Tejas in over 40 years. Because there is literally no KPI and no career downsides to just kicking the can down the road. Try that in a corporate environment.......and pretty sure you will be booted out

100 % top post....

 

[rafale]

Raza Samar - chairman NESCOM. One of the few control engineers of Pakistan. Some say he has been promoted and made his way because of his name but they also say he is sufficiently talented.

@JamD

Interesting background for him, I myself am Instrumentation & Controls engineer, though not PhD level, yet. But I do industrial plants automation related work. I believe he must be more missiles/guidance control type and more theoretical design type, though both are a lot similar. From his research papers seems more into UAC controls/guidance research, which i believe is the forte for NESCOM

Very interesting and broad field.

He has MSc from Stanford, so at least on academic Merit he is something.....this is a big dilemma where your father was someone legendary in the field, it is very difficult for you keep up with that repute. A lot more is expected of you........not just that you will breeze through career......and it gets very burdensome sometimes.

 

[RAJPUT]

In a normal scenario, your argument is valid. But not in the case here. If US attacks NK tomorrow, no Russia and China will come protect it. Both nations will sell weapons to it.

Same happened with Iran. Iran had helped the Russians so much and even gave them hundreds of their Shahed drones including TOT that literally changed the war in Russia's favor. Today, Russia is building over 3000 drones per month and want to expand to 1000 per day. It's that critical for them.

But in turn, Russia went to sleep when Israel attacked Iran. So point is, North Korea understood this logic way back. Whatever deals they did, were out of their sovereignty and to survive. No relation with existence below China or Russia.

China has a defense treaty with NK. I do not know how binding it is to China but they are the only country that has an official defense treaty with North Korea. China has come to its aid in 1950-53 war with troops on ground. It also implies that if attacked first, China will come to NKs aid but if NK starts the war, direct intervention will not be provided by China.

 

[RAJPUT]

At least 2 from following should be pursued and become Fatah-4 instead of subsonic CM, because May 2025 Conflict shows that in short time fast movers will be main stay of the war to deliver hard punch and fast response, while subsonic CMs will be in secondary role till war turns into longer and larger one where subsonic will shine.

When the Fatah-4 missiles are blasting S400 ass into the sky in the next bout, you guys are gonna be shocked. Just wait for the next skirmish.

 

[Rebirth]

When the Fatah-4 missiles are blasting S400 ass into the sky in the next bout, you guys are gonna be shocked. Just wait for the next skirmish.

Fatah-4 is not meant to take out SAM in fast paced war that is why CM-400ARM was used period

 

[RAJPUT]

Fatah-4 is not meant to take out SAM in fast paced war that is why CM-400ARM was used period

Low flying cruise missiles even the slow ones like Fatah-4 are meant to take out defences as they are very difficult to target at that height. Terrain hugging is an awesome technology to possess. And the nuclear counterpart Babar wasnt used cuz it is meant only for a strategic nuclear response which is why we now have a conventional counterpart of that same tech.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Raza Samar - chairman NESCOM. One of the few control engineers of Pakistan. Some say he has been promoted and made his way because of his name but they also say he is sufficiently talented.

Wow nice. Samar Mubarak was once a neighbor (same street) in late 90s /early 2000s in F-11/1. Most people I knew back then were in SPD orgs or army/af, including family members. perhaps that's why still have interest in defense / military stuff.

Rarely Dr.Samar's kid used to come playing cricket with us. I really don't remember if he was the only son or had any elder brother. He was still studying till late 90s If I remember correctly. 20-25 yrs to reach Chairman level is pretty quick in SPD orgs. If it's him then he must be at around age 50! Normally you get to become chairman nearing your retirement age.

In SPD (or actually any pak govt dept), talent alone can never make you at the top seat. Knew few contestants for chairman position in another SPD org, the one having a 3 star general brother became chairman. No surprises though. Personally I don't mind the backing of links, as long as the person is hardworking, talented and is delivering.

 

[Rebirth]

Low flying cruise missiles even the slow ones like Fatah-4 are meant to take out defences as they are very difficult to target at that height. Terrain hugging is an awesome technology to possess. And the nuclear counterpart Babar wasnt used cuz it is meant only for a strategic nuclear response which is why we now have a conventional counterpart of that same tech.

With rise of several new tech Sub Sonic non stealth Cruise missiles are not first choice to counter supersonic and hypersonic missile threats, India has layered air defence, to fast respond Pakistan used fast mover not slow movers, in larger war slow mover will have their advantage too, but Pakistan need a true stealth subsonic cruise missile of 21st century.

Terrain hugging was super tech in 90s, in 21st century AWACS, Balloon launches AESA radars and ground based advance AESA radars like TPS-77MMR, Giraffe etc. can pic those with ease and allow counter measures, Fateh-4 is good system but it will be needed in good numbers, careful planing and use of various system with it to get the desired results

 

[ThoroughPro]

beside Rocket force, now the need is to have radars with 'firefinder ability' to track incoming enemy projectiles/missiles. In the past it was only needed on LOC for detecting enemy artillery positions, but it will be needed all along the frontier.

already have them.