Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Foinikas]

Keep the topic on air defense, please don't derail.

On the topic of air defence and seeing the articles about Turkey's Steel Dome yesterday, I was criticizing Dendias and the government's big words of creating our own "Iron Dome" and programs such as "Achille's Shield",but being late August 2025 and not having yet bought one new system.

Do you understand that? Dendias became MoD in summer 2023 and has been talking about domes,ecosystems,our defence industry,late 2024 Achille's Shield and they still haven't decided what to buy. Not to replace all the obsolete systems,but even one of them. And not bought,not signed a deal,but not even decided. For example the OSA are obsolete. The I-HAWK PIP III need replacement,Turkey feels the same about that too. They can do something,as shown from the war in Ukraine,but they're not first line or even second line of defence. I mean,I wouldn't want to be depending on them and neither would you I guess!

Then the Tor-M1. They are not bad systems,they are probably still good and able,but they should have been upgraded to Tor-M2 a long time ago,but the spare parts will eventually run out and the missiles will expire. Same with the S-300PMU1.

Then Skyguard VELOS. The Oerlikon 35 coupled with Sea Sparrow missiles. We need to upgrade them.

They haven't even decided about one system. Meanwhile,Cyprus has bought Barak MX and it's rumored that they might have also bought Iron Dome. Cyprus is of course much smaller and buys way fewer systems,but at least they have initiative! They have initiative!

There's a joke in defence sites about Dendias,that his pen always malfunctions and never signs any deals.

 

[hyperman]

On the topic of air defence and seeing the articles about Turkey's Steel Dome yesterday, I was criticizing Dendias and the government's big words of creating our own "Iron Dome" and programs such as "Achille's Shield",but being late August 2025 and not having yet bought one new system.

Do you understand that? Dendias became MoD in summer 2023 and has been talking about domes,ecosystems,our defence industry,late 2024 Achille's Shield and they still haven't decided what to buy. Not to replace all the obsolete systems,but even one of them. And not bought,not signed a deal,but not even decided. For example the OSA are obsolete. The I-HAWK PIP III need replacement,Turkey feels the same about that too. They can do something,as shown from the war in Ukraine,but they're not first line or even second line of defence. I mean,I wouldn't want to be depending on them and neither would you I guess!

Then the Tor-M1. They are not bad systems,they are probably still good and able,but they should have been upgraded to Tor-M2 a long time ago,but the spare parts will eventually run out and the missiles will expire. Same with the S-300PMU1.

Then Skyguard VELOS. The Oerlikon 35 coupled with Sea Sparrow missiles. We need to upgrade them.

They haven't even decided about one system. Meanwhile,Cyprus has bought Barak MX and it's rumored that they might have also bought Iron Dome. Cyprus is of course much smaller and buys way fewer systems,but at least they have initiative! They have initiative!

There's a joke in defence sites about Dendias,that his pen always malfunctions and never signs any deals.

Maybe there isn't money for the purchase. Greece is spending 3.1% of GDP currently. Maybe the money is being put elsewhere.

 

[MMM-E]

On the topic of air defence and seeing the articles about Turkey's Steel Dome yesterday, I was criticizing Dendias and the government's big words of creating our own "Iron Dome" and programs such as "Achille's Shield",but being late August 2025 and not having yet bought one new system.

This is not 2000s this is 2025
in 2000s , Turkiye had only 50 SLAM-ER Cruise Missiles ... nothing else

now Greece can not stop Turkish Armed Forces fire power which is the best in NATO with USA

Turkish Missiles are so cost effective and we can fire 20 missiles in price of 1 PATRIOT air defense Missile

1 PATRIOT Battery : $1.1 billion .... 8 launchers x 4 = 32 PAC2 Missiles
100 IHA-230 and KEMANKES Missiles = max $10 million will be enough to destroy 1 PATRIOT battery ( $1,1 billion )

 

[Foinikas]

Maybe there isn't money for the purchase. Greece is spending 3.1% of GDP currently. Maybe the money is being put elsewhere.

That's part of the reason,but they've squandered a lot of money on other nonsense and typical voter-pleasing stuff,so they can't be excused. Especially when you have Dendias announce plans for domes and things like this:



He does it in a grandiose manner,while actually signing no deals

 

[Foinikas]

now Greece can not stop Turkish Armed Forces fire power which is the best in NATO with USA

That's debatable and questionable.

 

[WARSIDT]

That's part of the reason,but they've squandered a lot of money on other nonsense and typical voter-pleasing stuff,so they can't be excused. Especially when you have Dendias announce plans for domes and things like this:

He does it in a grandiose manner,while actually signing no deals

Because of NATO’s air defense umbrella, could it be that Greece does not consider it an urgent need? And I think Greece has urgency in terms of its navy. As for its air force, Greece has already strengthened it with new and advanced aircraft purchases.

That's debatable and questionable.

Yes, we were strong in terms of quantity, and now we are also becoming strong in terms of quality. As a country with real combat experience, producing its own defense industry vehicles and weapons, we still continue to remain second on the list. However, as long as we do not produce nuclear weapons, the list will always remain debatable.

 

[Foinikas]

Because of NATO’s air defense umbrella, could it be that Greece does not consider it an urgent need? And I think Greece has urgency in terms of its navy. As for its air force, Greece has already strengthened it with new and advanced aircraft purchases.

Good points. Unfortunately,NATO or common EU air defence umbrella isn't something that can just pop up one morning. Mitsotakis,on one hand told the EU that we have to focus on buying European weapons and on the other hand,the government was rumored to want Barak MX and Spyder from Israel. Wouldn't even order SPIKE NLOS from EuroSpike,but straight from Israel. There are so many options: NASAMS 2/3,IRIS SLM,MICA VL and SAMP-T,
but for more than a year,our guys were interested in Barak MX,Spyder and David's Sling.

I agree that we need to modernize the Navy right now. We needed new ships and submarines in 2019,it's 2025 and they haven't even signed for a 4th FDI HN. I remind you,the Hellenic Navy was the only branch that was never defeated by Turks in battle.
But air defence is very important as well. It was recently revealed in an article on Ptisi,that during the height of the economic crisis,even some of the Crotale NG and Patriot were out of order,because of lack of spare parts. A lot of the aircraft,fighter jets and transport,were also not flying because of no FOS. The article had a list of all the purchases the ND goverment did in 2019-2021 to revitalize the army a bit,after being neglected for 10 years.

As for the Air Force,I agree bro it's been strengthened,but I don't see them ordering modern weapons for the F-16Vs like AIM-120C8,AIM-9X,JASSM-ER,Advanced HARM etc.

Unless they plan to buy any of that with the F-35.

 

[MMM-E]

That's debatable and questionable.

Thats clear
Turkiye has the best conventional missile fire power in NATO with USA

France ,The UK , Germany , Italy dont have UCAV fleet , supersonic-hypersonic Ballistic Missiles , land based Cruise Missiles , air launched Ballistic Missiles , long range kamikaze Drones , cost effective mini Cruise Missiles and long range guided munitions

if you visit Turkish missiles section then I can show you superior Turkish missile fire power

 

[BonPlan]

Thats clear
Turkiye has the best conventional missile fire power in NATO with USA

France ,The UK , Germany , Italy dont have UCAV fleet , supersonic-hypersonic Ballistic Missiles , land based Cruise Missiles , air launched Ballistic Missiles , long range kamikaze Drones , cost effective mini Cruise Missiles and long range guided munitions

if you visit Turkish missiles section then I can show you superior Turkish missile fire power

You forgot Poland.
Poland will be in the very near future the main classical forces of europe except russia.

 

[MMM-E]

There are so many options: NASAMS 2/3,IRIS SLM,MICA VL and SAMP-T,

They can not stop even Turkish UCAVs armed with 60-100-150-200-280-700 km cost effective missiles/guided munitions

Greeks still dont understand the Turkish defense industry has now become a global player


Air defense missiles are very expensive units and unless you produce them yourself you cannot cope with the high costs.

 

[MMM-E]

You forgot Poland.
Poland will be in the very near future the main classical forces of europe except russia.

Poland is nothing to compare with Turkiye .... not even close
Poland produce almost nothing but buys some weapons from USA and S.Korea

even France is nothing to compare with Turkiye in conventional missile/guided munition fire power

 

[MMM-E]

Aselsan General Manager Ahmet Akyol answered questions on the subject in a special broadcast on NTV


Turkiye has gained another unique capability possessed by very few modern armies in the world.

We added electronic warfare systems to the STEEL DOME sensor layer alongside radar. With a slightly more advanced perspective than other examples worldwide,

We can also perform detection alongside radar with electronic support elements

We have added the ability to detect low-stealth aircraft, particularly with optical systems we call IRST, to our concept ....... Passive radars are similarly a part of this concept

We are currently working on Quantum Radars too

We have become an important player in the world

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[hyperman]

That's part of the reason,but they've squandered a lot of money on other nonsense and typical voter-pleasing stuff,so they can't be excused. Especially when you have Dendias announce plans for domes and things like this:

View attachment 143436

He does it in a grandiose manner,while actually signing no deals

Why did he name is Achilles Dome. lol, Turkey gonna build "Achilles Heel" Anti Radiation missile. lol

 

[Foinikas]

Why did he name is Achilles Dome. lol, Turkey gonna build "Achilles Heel" Anti Radiation missile. lol

I think others decided on that.

 

[WARSIDT]

I agree that we need to modernize the Navy right now. We needed new ships and submarines in 2019,it's 2025 and they haven't even signed for a 4th FDI HN. I remind you,the Hellenic Navy was the only branch that was never defeated by Turks in battle.
But air defence is very important as well. It was recently revealed in an article on Ptisi,that during the height of the economic crisis,even some of the Crotale NG and Patriot were out of order,because of lack of spare parts. A lot of the aircraft,fighter jets and transport,were also not flying because of no FOS. The article had a list of all the purchases the ND goverment did in 2019-2021 to revitalize the army a bit,after being neglected for 10 years.

As for the Air Force,I agree bro it's been strengthened,but I don't see them ordering modern weapons for the F-16Vs like AIM-120C8,AIM-9X,JASSM-ER,Advanced HARM etc.

Unless they plan to buy any of that with the F-35.

Perhaps the most challenging or rather the most thought-provoking point for a country is already the procurement of ammunition. Because if this ammunition is not used, your money literally melts away. Buying in large quantities is problematic, buying in small quantities is also problematic, and even if you buy in what you consider to be the ideal amount, it is still problematic. Ammunition procurement is truly a troublesome issue, especially the expensive ones.

It seems that Greece is investing its limited funds into platforms within a limited timeframe. I think once it increases the number of platforms, it will turn towards ammunition procurement.

Good points. Unfortunately,NATO or common EU air defence umbrella isn't something that can just pop up one morning. Mitsotakis,on one hand told the EU that we have to focus on buying European weapons and on the other hand,the government was rumored to want Barak MX and Spyder from Israel. Wouldn't even order SPIKE NLOS from EuroSpike,but straight from Israel. There are so many options: NASAMS 2/3,IRIS SLM,MICA VL and SAMP-T,
but for more than a year,our guys were interested in Barak MX,Spyder and David's Sling.

I think Israel’s air defense systems stand out more than the European systems because they have been used on the battlefield.
And since Greece, together with Israel, wants to play against Turkey, it seems like Greece wants to hit two birds with one stone. That’s why turning towards Israeli air defense systems makes sense. Another reason is Europe’s genuinely slow production and decision-making process.