Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ShapurII]

Different west and different time. If US didn't step in and rebuild those nations, they would have become communist and become allies of the Soviet Union. They did it because it was in their interest to do so. Today, the US isn't rebuilding Syria or Libya and no one is rushing to do so, Russia sends in some mercs to make money from local warlords at best. If Iran disappears it is no loss to the west, it would actually be a benefit, which is why they're working on making it happen.
Also modern west is more openly fascistic and violent today. The collateral murder video was a leak and a scandal, now Rubio proudly posts videos of them blowing up a random boat on twitter and says "it was 100% a drug smuggling boat." They are committing genocide openly and sanctioning the ICC for calling it genocide and denying visas to the victims. Actually a big motivation for smaller countries to bring the ICC case is because they realize the same fate awaits them in the future if they accept this.

Different time, similar West.

They're doing the same for Ukraine. Ukraine used to be a pro-Russia state before 2008.
The US is not destroying Libya either. What is the US doing in Libya that I don't know of?

As for Syria, Syria is literally ruled by an Islamic terrorist group. It's HTS for God's sake lol Do you really think the US will just be OK with radical Islam because they helped them topple Assad? If Syria had become a secular pro-US country, the situation would've been very different for today's Syria.

The US turned a blind eye to radical Islam taking over a country once in 1979. They're not going to make the same mistake.

The West has always been fascist. If anything, today's West is much more liberal than the West in 1940s.

Again, now the plan is to just physically occupy what they need and let the rest burn. Trump just openly says that they "got the oil" in Syria. When they occupy Khuzestan, it will be the same thing.

Infiltration and surveillance is one of many reasons they don't go for nuclearization, not the only reason. It's more likely khamenei works for the US/jews than for Russia. His actions have mostly benefited the west and not Russia other than the drone deal. Things like INSTC have not amounted to much.

You're right that the only way out of this mess is to become strong, but it's too late to develop domestic strength. If the option is between become a full "eastern puppet" or a failed state "western puppet," the answer is clear.

They gained control over the oil in Syria since 2011. Trump is not the kind of person you would want to refer to in a serious argument lol The US maintained strong military presence in the east of Syria where most of oil is (Deir ez-Zur) since the very beginning of the civil war, securing their oil interests.

So what? Let them have our oil. The Seven Sisters controlled Iran's oil in 70s and we were still doing better than today economically.
Khamenei is a KGB agent. There is strong evidence to support that. None of his actions have benefitted the West or Israel by design, but rather by stupidity or Russian decisions. Whatever he has done, and whatever he does today, is at the dictates of comrade Putin.

LMAO You think an eastern puppet won't be a failed state? Seriously? Dude, Russia itself is a failed state. Look at "eastern puppets": Cuba, North Korea, Belarus, Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Nicaragua. What a list of prosperous nations lol None of them is a failed state lol
Now look at the list of Western puppets: Japan, South Korea, Germany, Turkey, etc. They're all failed states. People are escaping from these miserable countries to those prosperous eastern puppets.

 

[Sarhang]

What you are suggesting is not an alternative either.
It is something that has been thoroughly tested in our history.
The most recent example of it is JCPOA. It is basically JCPOA 2.0, but even more useless.

There are only two options:
1. Go nuclear. Iran needs to follow the same path as North Korea for a while. Stay low, do not talk, shut up and work on improving your nuclear deterrence.
2. Surrender. Let the West get what they want. Become pro-Israel. Help Israel wipe Palestinians off the map. Turn into a country like Saudi Arabia, Turkey or pre-revolution Iran. Let them install whoever they want. Be it Reza Pahlavi, Maryam Rajavi or Hassan Rohani.

The whole idea that China or Russia will give Iran guarantees is nonsense. The concept of a permanent UNSC member giving guarantees to a non-member state is absolutely ridiculous and delusional.

World doesnt work like that. Its not either become a North Korea hermit state or become a puppet.


First thing you should be asking yourself is: why even ''resist'' the Americans? Which sane nation does this? Whats the purpose? For what?


Russia, the same Russia thats being prostate massaged daily by the brainless Khamenei cult literally hosts a US embassy on its soil. They have daily interactions with top US diplomats keeping tensions minimized and making sure their diplomatic stance doesnt degrade further.


China is even worse in this regard. Their whole system is full blown capitalism and they are in bed with Uncle Sam all the time.


Who else on the resistance list? Yemen... Venezuela?


I don’t see a single sane, prosperous, stable nation ''resisting'' the Americans. Not one.

I remind you the US actually takes a lot of shit from its so called partners. Our own country literally killed hundreds of their soldiers, stormed their embassy, paraded their staff live on TV, froze their assets, and spent decades in antiAmerican activity.


And yet even now if IR was genuine the US would still extend their hand. Thats the reality.

 

[Shafagh]

Yep.

World doesnt work like that. Its not either become a North Korea hermit state or become a puppet.


First thing you should be asking yourself is: why even ''resist'' the Americans? Which sane nation does this? Whats the purpose? For what?


Russia, the same Russia thats being prostate massaged daily by the brainless Khamenei cult literally hosts a US embassy on its soil. They have daily interactions with top US diplomats keeping tensions minimized and making sure their diplomatic stance doesnt degrade further.


China is even worse in this regard. Their whole system is full blown capitalism and they are in bed with Uncle Sam all the time.


Who else on the resistance list? Yemen... Venezuela?


I don’t see a single sane, prosperous, stable nation ''resisting'' the Americans. Not one.

I remind you the US actually takes a lot of shit from its so called partners. Our own country literally killed hundreds of their soldiers, stormed their embassy, paraded their staff live on TV, froze their assets, and spent decades in antiAmerican activity.


And yet even now if IR was genuine the US would still extend their hand. Thats the reality.

U.S. could have nuked Iran, or devastated it in 1980s if it wanted to.

Give America 15-20 years. The next generation of American leaders will hate Israel more than they hate Iran.

It is a fallacy to think you can win, playing this crusade against ZOG empire while under severe sanctions and arms embargo. China didn't do it, nobody did it.

It's not like Iran gained nothing from the U.S. during Shah era. Alot of Iran's technological foundation comes from what he imported in the 60s and 70s.

I just don't want to see a Pro Israel government, and soon you won't have to be in order to befriend Americans.

 

[ToddE]

World doesnt work like that. Its not either become a North Korea hermit state or become a puppet.


First thing you should be asking yourself is: why even ''resist'' the Americans? Which sane nation does this? Whats the purpose? For what?


Russia, the same Russia thats being prostate massaged daily by the brainless Khamenei cult literally hosts a US embassy on its soil. They have daily interactions with top US diplomats keeping tensions minimized and making sure their diplomatic stance doesnt degrade further.


China is even worse in this regard. Their whole system is full blown capitalism and they are in bed with Uncle Sam all the time.


Who else on the resistance list? Yemen... Venezuela?


I don’t see a single sane, prosperous, stable nation ''resisting'' the Americans. Not one.

I remind you the US actually takes a lot of shit from its so called partners. Our own country literally killed hundreds of their soldiers, stormed their embassy, paraded their staff live on TV, froze their assets, and spent decades in antiAmerican activity.


And yet even now if IR was genuine the US would still extend their hand. Thats the reality.

More and more actions of IRI and their results point to the fact that IRI is nothing but a Russo installed Regime. Its job is make sure that Iran never gets economically strong to its true potential to compete in oil market or for influence in Eurasia, never becomes militarily strong enough to pose strategic threat in ME/CA/Caucasus or go after its stolen Iranian lands. IRI ensures that through self immolation policies of meaningless fights Israel and US and entire west so Iran stays weak through crippling sanctions.

Russia does not see Iran as anything else as to what Czar Russia saw Iranian empire or USSR saw Shahi Iran. They have just succeeded in doing what they could not do for centuries. Subdue a challenger in south with which they fought wars after wars over territory. Oil n gas competition is new and even more bigger factor.

I am not against Russia or Russian people. They are doing best for their nation. I am against national suicide that IRI is pushing Iranian nation to commit.

 

[ToddE]

Yep.



U.S. could have nuked Iran, or devastated it in 1980s if it wanted to.

Give America 15-20 years. The next generation of American leaders will hate Israel more than they hate Iran.

It is a fallacy to think you can win, playing this crusade against ZOG empire while under severe sanctions and arms embargo. China didn't do it, nobody did it.

It's not like Iran gained nothing from the U.S. during Shah era. Alot of Iran's technological foundation comes from what he imported in the 60s and 70s.

I just don't want to see a Pro Israel government, and soon you won't have to be in order to befriend Americans.

Had not Shahi Iran allied itself with US post WWII, USSR would have taken chunks out of entire NW Iran and created atleast 4 x Soviet republics out of Iranian territory. US pushed Stalin out of Iran. People forget this history. They armed Shahi Iran to the extent that in case of US vs USSR showdown, Shahi Iran with its mighty military and economic power would have created a new highly problematic front for USSR in south, more devastating that what entire EU could offer at that time. Later the same US supplied weaponry saved Iran from being invaded by Arab League + USSR powered Baathist war machine. Even during that war US supplied IRI with Fighter jet spares, A2A missiles, I-Hawks, TOW ATGMs etc. Mullahs try to hide this history because it exposes them as hypocrites. Forget US Israel supplied F-4E/D parts to Iran. IRIAF and IAF jointly attacked Osirak Nuclear plant. Trita Parsi wrote an entire book on this called "Treacherous Alliances" secret dealings of US, IRI, Israel.

 

[kastor ville]

Good history lessons from all of you.....however, none of it matters at this point. The paths in the road are clear, the needed change in Iran's policy and governance is also clear. We cannot continue under the leadership of a senile old man, with zero governance and leadership ability.....sure, if you want to run a Friday prayer, then you got the right guy, but if you want to run a country of 80 mill with a damaged economy, and a leadership vacuum then you better be looking elsewhere. We need smart, educated, western savvy people at the helm.....the same kind of people they've been running out of the country for the past 4 decades, those guys are all here, running silicon valley companies, or working in corporate America, making this country great......no they're not traitors, they're smart, they want to live good, not in poverty or get killed due to the sheer ignorance or malice of our leadership.
Shapuril pointed it out.......either make the bomb and give up and play nice. It's simple as that. The look to the East bullshit, didn't work, we have no allies......I'll repeat we have no allies. Because we have no policy for that...we have resistance, it's child's policy. Who are you resisting? Oh, yeah, the entire Western world and most of our neighbors! Where are the allies?
Where do we go from here? Again, make the fking bomb, or sit down and shut up.....period, there is no choice "C", choice is C is a failed economic state that will eventually disintegrate on its own, and chaos will ensue, because that's the enemy's ultimate plan......the atomization of our land, just like Syria and Iraq.
If these people were true patriots....they would see where this is all going, and step down, change policies and protect our land and people from what's to come.

 

[muhammed45]

Good history lessons from all of you.....however, none of it matters at this point. The paths in the road are clear, the needed change in Iran's policy and governance is also clear. We cannot continue under the leadership of a senile old man, with zero governance and leadership ability.....sure, if you want to run a Friday prayer, then you got the right guy, but if you want to run a country of 80 mill with a damaged economy, and a leadership vacuum then you better be looking elsewhere. We need smart, educated, western savvy people at the helm.....the same kind of people they've been running out of the country for the past 4 decades, those guys are all here, running silicon valley companies, or working in corporate America, making this country great......no they're not traitors, they're smart, they want to live good, not in poverty or get killed due to the sheer ignorance or malice of our leadership.
Shapuril pointed it out.......either make the bomb and give up and play nice. It's simple as that. The look to the East bullshit, didn't work, we have no allies......I'll repeat we have no allies. Because we have no policy for that...we have resistance, it's child's policy. Who are you resisting? Oh, yeah, the entire Western world and most of our neighbors! Where are the allies?
Where do we go from here? Again, make the fking bomb, or sit down and shut up.....period, there is no choice "C", choice is C is a failed economic state that will eventually disintegrate on its own, and chaos will ensue, because that's the enemy's ultimate plan......the atomization of our land, just like Syria and Iraq.
If these people were true patriots....they would see where this is all going, and step down, change policies and protect our land and people from what's to come.

How about someone like Zelensky? USA chose Zelensky for Ukraine. He is also smart. What say you?

 

[muhammed45]

Come on @kastor ville i'm waiting for your answer. This is our Zelensky


He is an smartass.

 

[Persian Gulf]

And yet even now if IR was genuine the US would still extend their hand. Thats the reality.

advocating war with Iran is good business in the US. the politicians really hate Iran now. won't be possible to undo that easily unless Iran bends the knee and kisses the Jewish wall and the US politicians get approval to go easy on Iran from their Jewish funders

 

[muhammed45]

Israel wanted regime change in Iran. Zionists failed militarily.

Now their western stooges are trying to convince us about the fact that we need a new system.

As it seems, something like this phrase. I failed to achieve it on the ground, please do it in online platforms.

Many western users appeared in this forum all of a sudden simultaneously to Israeli and US led attack on Iran. And coincidentally they all want regime change. But not through war, since its impossible. Its better to prepare minds of Iranians by disappointing them, by instilling failure into their thoughts.

Gentlemen and ladies, the ones reading this thread, its called 'war of narratives', actually a part of enemy's hybrid warfare.

 

[Shafagh]

At this point, it seems more worthwhile to just give up nuclear ambitions. Yes, it is a bitter pill to swallow, but America is not to blame. This is Iranian leadership's fault.

I have said this before and I will say it again, Islamic Republic of Iran is not an institution that is ruled by one central power. A regime change in Iran will not look like what we saw in Libya, Syria, Iraq. Iran can handle threats. Even those closest to Trump will not advocate for John Bolton's dumbass support for multi-ethnic revolts across the country.

If anything, Iran can retain Bushehr plant, get guarantees of fuel for civilian power plants, build another civilian plant under international inspection, sell more electricity to Iraq and neighboring countries, retain a modern and reliable source of energy for years to come.

Did you guys think Iran would actually get away with using a nuclear weapon anyway? Just having them won't protect Iranians. There will always be terrorism and sabotage on nuclear sites and personnel. That won't change. Not to mention, the billions Iran would have invested in nuclear development, can now be diverted to other projects; i.e laser technology, aerospace.

Take the money and use the knowledge gained from Kowsar program, to lay the groundwork for a future 5.5 gen light stealth fighter with AI integrated systems. At the very least, Iranian engineers can design a semi stealth light attack fighter that can integrated drones and provide some sort of air defence, keep pilots trained and up to par.

You can deal with Trump. He is too dumb to be shaping some nefarious grand scheme for regime change and post-regime puppet state. MAGA is rapidly turning against Israel. Pretty soon he will realize the Israelis are more trouble than they are worth, he'll be in need of a quick victory to give to his voters, and will strike a deal with Iran, and throw Netanyahu under the bus.

Just do something. At least stop dragging out this partial cooperation, partial non cooperation, partial negotiation; stringing things along so that Iran becomes like a cancer patient; slowly dying while getting poked and beaten on the head by Israel and U.S. again and again.

I remain optimistic. There is a chance to end all of this with Iran standing strong. If Iran can normalize relations with the U.S. and get sanctions lifted, even partially lifted, then Iran can emerge from this intact, and the only country to have smacked around Israel and survived. It will get out of this relatively stable and secure.

 

[Shafagh]

Come on @kastor ville i'm waiting for your answer. This is our Zelensky
View attachment 144936

He is an smartass.

Come on man, Zelensky is much smarter than this donkey.

This guy just wants to be a figurehead and sit around in a palace doing nothing, playing dress up with fancy royalty outfits.

 

[kastor ville]

Come on man, Zelensky is much smarter than this donkey.

This guy just wants to be a figurehead and sit around in a palace doing nothing, playing dress up with fancy royalty outfits.

I don't even want to answer him, because he's one of the people who helped get us here.....they're obedient, and never question authority.

 

[FUB]

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He is a realist, not one-sided like Morandi. I listened to one of his interviews before the 12-day war, and he predicted it. He was spot on.

 

[FUB]

That looks like the Delta Force guy who blew the whistle on Tucker Carlson's show.

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