Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Yasser76]

I removed your thread ban but you are discussing off topic. Pakistan is very different to what you are suggesting actually. Pakistan is not as poor as you seem to think about. Most people are living a perfect life in Pakistan. If their income is low, the expenses are also low compared to rest of the world.

It's the arrogance and self rightouness that puts me off personally....

One point the guy claimed he knew about future J-35 orders from his "friend" who works at the manufacturer and keeps him updated.....

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Let us be serious. This is not a reciprocal agreement in any real sense. The only reason for calling it a "mutual defence agreement " is to save both sides the blushes. The House of Saud will not openly say they need Pakistani help to protect themselves and the Pakistani regime doesn't want to openly admit they are mercenaries for hire.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have always had military relations. How much can they actually help each other - or indeed need each other's help against their respective enemy - is open to debate.

Pakistan helping Saudis against the juice or Saudi Arabia coming to Pakistan's help against the Hindutvas - only time will tell.

 

[FuturePAF]

Very well said and in case any such conflict of interest arises between both parties and they are somehow not able to talk bilaterally, they will know for sure that Pakistan has good relations with the other party and therefore if we present our case then Pakistan can act as a mediator. Sort of like how Qatar has been mediating between first the Taliban and the USA + NATO and then trying really hard to mediate between Hamas and USA + Israel. Pakistan can play that role of Oman or Qatar in mediating between rival "Islamic" entities who will both trust the word of Pakistan. Pakistan qualifies for this role, because of its very tough history of warfare and conflict, internal & cross border terrorism, foreign agents operating and causing trouble inside, proxy wars, getting used and then duped by world power, political engineering etc. this all adds to the experience (although negative) Pakistan gained which most of these countries don't have.

Of course Pakistan it self has to make it self ready for such situations and not get bogged down with "grouping" among the "Ummah" countries as well as steer clear of any controversies and maintain a trustworthy approach.

The problem arises when Saudi invokes the treaty to ask Pakistan to intervene in Yemen, against the Houthis. Perhaps only from the air at first, shooting down missiles overflying Saudi air space, on the way further north.

Then Saudi asks for Pakistani troops into Yemen.

We have to be careful of the terms of the treaty, because it seems more one way; Pakistani defense of Saudi. I don’t foresee how Saudis will commit to intervening to actively and kinetically fighting India.

This is why stating with building fighter jets and air defense missiles is a good middle point. Then expanding to the nuclear umbrella, with Saudis funding an expansion of the rocket force and nuclear arsenal in exchange for a deployment of perhaps 50 Pakistani nukes to Saudi territory could seem plausible. But there will be blowback as it will put some countries in range now. Saudis will therefore have to shield Pakistan from the consequences if it signs up for this.

If the Pakistani establishment decides it wants to commit to deployment to Yemen, aka defending Saudi as they envision it, then Saudi will have to compensate for the blowback for Pakistan, in terms of military modernization, relations with Iran, the economic blowback, the domestic sectarian blowback inside Pakistan, etc.

But this seems to be a second chance at what @MastanKhan said Pakistan should have joined back in 2015.

But in effect will Pakistan be fighting a non-Saudi force that is actively fighting the ones this treaty was suppose to be about protecting from?

 

[Uzair Khan]

If Israel brings the war to Pakistan, it won't be through TTP and BLA, but B-2s bombing Pakistani nuclear installations.

Tried to do it in the 80's with indian help.At that time it was barely possible if Americans would have helped. THe Americans didnt take that risk then and u are saying they would do this to a Nuclear power now? that failed and we are an established nucelar power now that is not going to happen. The warheads are already present. the only way is to collapse Pakistan through a proxy war . And u didnt react to anything else i said regarding India. I would take that as an accpetance of facts. rare from an Indian tbh

 

[Ali_Baba]

Just days ago that satan's minion natanyahu was moaning about China. I think he knows what will be operating next to Israeli airspace not in distant future.

Yes, both India and Israel knew and that is why Israel was complaining about China. It is also "why" Israel and India both did operation Sindoor(Israel via advisors on the ground). It was to cut Pakistan down to size before this all materialised.

 

[F.O.X]

what you guys need to realize is that KSA does not need us because the lack weapons, or delivery systems or War tech, they have those which are better and more sophisticated
then ours. they need us because they do not trust that all those system will work against israel, so they need someone who has weapons not dependent on USA, which is Pakistan, someone who can hold its own against adversaries despite limited resources.

 

[Ali_Baba]

On second thought, Zardari visit to AVIC is now making sense. Expect huge orders coming in to fulfil the needs of this new arrangement.

I think so too, they will want to setup an expeditionary force asap to add some teeth to this.

 

[RajaBaja]

Both Saudia Arabia and Pakistan need to work out, asap, how to translate this treaty into something actionable.

Logically Pakistan needs to create an expeditionary force that it can relocate to Saudi Arabia at a moments notice. For the aerial component, it will need to consist of multiple squadrons of J10CE/JF17s(and eventually J-35s) backed by KJ-500s and Y20s to support the logistical train from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia. The premise being that Saudia Arabia fund this new force and it can be moved between Pakistan and Saudia Arabia. The advantage for Pakistan is that this new force can be used to defend Pakistan also.

Both sides would need to integrate their side of this expeditionary force into the air arm of the other country and train accordingly.

Saudia Arabia equally needs to create expeditionary force of its airforce that can relocate to the Pakistan at a moments notice aswell. The issue that Saudia may face is the restrictions on some of their weapons on where/how potentially they can use them( normally the American stuff, the Europe stuff does not come with these restrictions ).

There will need to be a land component to this expeditionary force aswell, will leave it to others to determine a makeup.

To me, this is the best / most logical way to put some "teeth" into the new treaty.

Slow down brother. If force and weapon deployments would come from an online forum, I think all Pakistani and Saudi military would be here learning from us.

The signing of agreement means both nations are binding. Now from the second of signatures out, any attack is a two front war from Pakistan and Saudia's side. So message sent to the world, the "hostile" nations fully understand it. Whether we deploy force tomorrow or in 6 months, mutual defense is our obligation.

Now covering the "force" side a little. This force being built will expand. I expect at least 4 Arab nations to join. Could be more. The force structure won't be some JF-17's or J-10C's backed by a KJ-500 . This force is going to be one of the most modern forces out there.

We will hear good news on acquiring 5th gen jets also. This force will be headed by Pakistanis with Saudis. It will have interoperability between existing Pakistan and Saudi infrastructure, which is drastically different, to adding top notch new weapons. A new, most modern kill chain per today's technologies will be implemented. Expect either a bigger number of SAAB Global Eyes, or even E-7 like aircraft to come in with significant focus on Space technology. The game has gone way up in just 24 hours!

 

[Yasser76]

The problem arises when Saudi invokes the treaty to ask Pakistan to intervene in Yemen, against the Houthis. Perhaps only from the air at first, shooting down missiles overflying Saudi air space, on the way further north.

Then Saudi asks for Pakistani troops into Yemen.

We have to be careful of the terms of the treaty, because it seems more one way; Pakistani defense of Saudi. I don’t foresee how Saudis will commit to intervening to actively and kinetically fighting India.

If Yeman attacks Saudi then Pakistan can and shoukd come to it's aid, it is mutual "defence". not Pakistan underwriting any Saudi invasion of anyone else

 

[FuturePAF]

If Yeman attacks Saudi then Pakistan can and shoukd come to it's aid, it is mutual "defence". not Pakistan underwriting any Saudi invasion of anyone else

Isn’t that what Pakistani troops are doing there anyway? What new obligations have Pakistani forces been signed up to do?

 

[Yasser76]

I think so too, they will want to setup an expeditionary force asap to add some teeth to this.

Right off the bat we know both air forces operate ErIeye and my suspicion is Saudis bought these for Pakistan (as they already have 6 upgraded E-3s for AEW)

Saudi land forces also use M109 and M60 Tanks that are familar to Pakistan so perhaps sending an armoured brigade to use these equipment?

Navy wise very little overlap, but Saudis have no Subs. Maybe an extra Hangor buy and have these with Babur to then help create a Saudi Submarine service?

Missile wise we have so much to offer....

 

[Maarkhoor]

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Update:


Taliban assures TTP will be eliminated from their territory along with ***** aka R&AW.

@RescueRanger

Only one problem left in jail who refuse to live and die as well.

"Sick of living unwilling to die"

 

[Yasser76]

Isn’t that what Pakistani troops are doing there anyway? What new obligations have Pakistani forces been signed up to do?

No one privy to details at the moment

 

[RajaBaja]

If Israel brings the war to Pakistan, it won't be through TTP and BLA, but B-2s bombing Pakistani nuclear installations.

Israelis don't have B2's. Secondly, we can monitor what takes off from Israeli basis. Our deployments in Saudia will ensure these aircrafts don't have a landing destination!

Eye for an Eye! This is the same message for you also. You can cry as much as you want to, like you are doing and it's understandable. Can't press the trigger!

Otherwise, there may be plans suddenly to terminate Indian suspected citizen as foreigner residences in the middle east and send them back. Bring in Muslim educated people.

Teach your children for next 200 years about "operation Sindoor" once upon a time in 2025, we launched missiles into Pakistan without having the balls to cross the border. They took down our top jets flying deep inside our airspace. We grounded our entire airforce and abandoned our own airpace for a full 200 KM strip from South to North throughout the map of India as if this was Pakistani territory.

 

[Mr X]

It's the arrogance and self rightouness that puts me off personally....

One point the guy claimed he knew about future J-35 orders from his "friend" who works at the manufacturer and keeps him updated.....

I apologise to disagree with you but If he said it, I believe him. Many of his claims have proven to be correct in the past when it comes to Chinese defence industry but that’s not a topic here