Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Mr X]

I have already covered this many times already in this thread. There is NO war between KSA and the Houthis (who control just 20% of Yemen and do not equal Yemen and are not even the internationally recognized government/representatives of Yemen) since 2020. In fact since 2017-2018 until 2020 it was a very low scale conflict. There is an understanding now (you see any Houthi attacks on KSA or vice versa?) and Houthis are independent from the failing Iranian regime to begin with.

Not only that, KSA and Iran (regime) have burried (officially and de facto) the hatchet 2-3 years ago as well and there are frequent meetings. Already discussed prior in this thread (look a few pages back) too.

Also this is most likely a purely defensive agreement. KSA has no appetite for any wars or interventions anywhere unless attacked for a million of reasons already covered as well in this thread by me and others.

exactly. The entire purpose of this pact is to deny aggression by foreign nations. We have no offensive ambitions as both nations are trying to develop their economy. Saudis are focused on Industrialisation while Pakistanis wants to improve the economy.

This pact only means that “don’t mess with us or we will fight. It has no other ambitions of becoming like NATO and attacking other nations

 

[Yasser76]

do we have saab 2000
saab 2000 cant we use link 17 and connect them just like we have in paf. i onow its amature question

Was referring to Saudi aircraft and E-3s and our F-16s.

Stikll amazed we intgrated Link 17 in Erieye, that was a great acheivement but Swedes must have given us permission

 

[_Arabia_]

Stop fear mongering SC..... F35 is the only edge Israelis have in a conventional war.....if you take this edge out of the equation Egypt alone is strong enough to capture Israel in a month are so of war.... don't underestimate your own strength.

The problem was never tiny Israel on its own. The problem is that Israel and Zionism is a creation of the West and even since before their creation and ever since their creation as a "state" have been propped up by the same West/USA 24/7 militarily (enjoying the most advanced military tech for free), economically, politically and in every sphere, rendering them untouchable. As we see today unfortunately and always have seen. Not to mention the nukes in the equation which I have no doubt that they would willingly use even if it meant their own nuclear end (Samson Option) just out of spite.

That is the main problem and at the same time the fact that the US/West cannot be ignored economically and militarily by the Arabs. 80-70 years ago, when relations were first forged with the West (in the case of KSA), there were only two options, the capitalistic West (USA/Europe) or the Godless USSR who had much less to offer on every front.

In fact not many people know this, locals included, but the first country to recognize the news iteration of KSA (unified KSA under Ibn Saud (ra)), was the USSR.
There is a great article about how the Russians/USSR lost KSA.

How Moscow lost Riyadh in 1938

Russian-Saudi relations could be very different today, if Stalin hadn't killed the Soviet ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

www.aljazeera.com

So the GCC/Arab world (most of the Muslim world if not all of it and most of the world) is economically, politically and militarily tied to the West (USA in particular), been the case for decades, and it is very difficult to decouple from them overnight, especially when they have embedded themselves in the region directly.

You see it with Qatar not long ago and the Israeli attack on the Hamas delegation all while hosting the largest US base in the region (Al-Udeid).

You see one of the problems now?

This i the crux of the matter because we are all aware of who actually enables the crimes of the Zionist regime. It is the same US/West and nobody else. Not that the likes of Russia/Putin do not have close ties with them, they do, but not to such an extent even though much of the Oligarchy in Russia that keeps their (Putins) system intact are composed of Russian Jewish oligarchs..

Now, take Qatar as an example, small (tiny) country already, what would happen to it/the regime if they told the Americans to close the Al-Udeid base and say invited in the Chinese or Russians? They would not survive. And who of us (Muslims as a whole) could stand up to the US might if they decided to take such actions? Nobody. We see this impotency in Gaza as well for the very same reason that we all know that should ANY Muslim nation actually threaten the existence of Israel, the US/West (obedient slaves of the Zionists) will come to their rescue with full force.

And this is why Muslim and Arab regimes appear as impotent and weak in front of this entire situation. Not because they are necessarily weak on their own (the strong/powerful ones) or as a collective (not at all) but because they simply stand no chance against the US and collective West militarily and politically and economically. Nobody does yet, not even the Chinese. Hence Taiwan being Taiwan to this day.

Sad situation but it is what it is, cannot pretend it is not the case.

That is why I wholeheartedly hope that agreements such as this one between KSA and Pakistan will actually be a start of something new and better and result in tangibles changes for both countries in terms of strengthening the militarily, economy and political clout in order to protect our core interests and everything else that has been discussed in this thread of wise topics.

 

[Dalit]

Off topic but indirectly related. This is going to hit india’s global standing and economy:

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The Indians have always dreamt of miracle growth like China. It was never on the cards, but now it is more than guaranteed.

 

[Yasser76]

The Indians have always dreamt of miracle growth like China. It was never on the cards, but now it is more than guaranteed.

China has some luck, it milked the globalisation of world trade to it's benefot, no the liberal free trade set up of global economics is in retreat India missed the boat just as it was getting on board.

My prediction is

1) India will become more self sufficient and rely less on exports
2) India will remain the "work shop" of the IT world but at lower levels of tech
3) European and Western backlash against mass Indian immigration will results in in increase in unemployment levels amongst the 6 million people wh graduate in India every year
4) To take hold of all this, I think India will actually need to massively increase subsidies and domestic spending
5) We will see massive cuts in Indian defence spending

 

[Tamerlane]

I do not know what has gotten into our diaspora these days. Perhaps it is because, when you live as a second-class citizen, you naturally develop a sense of self-loathing and an inferiority complex. But lately the equation for many Pakistani expats seems very simple:

Something good happens in Pakistan = “IK would have done it better, or it is just a ploy by the generals.”

Frankly its getting tiring, People here in Pakistan dont give two hoots about the PTI narrative anymore, since every protest call since may has failed miserably. Any opposition and online PTI trolls call you a patwari.

Yaar aik dain ki post koi nahi parray ga

No one knows what’s in the agreement, so to say “When something good happens in Pakistan” regarding this agreement is mostly conjecture. In this thread people are imagining that PAF will take over whole bases in Saudi Arabia and station multiple squadrons of fighters, maybe even nuclear missiles, there will be billions of dollars of Saudi investment in Pakistan’s defence industry, massive investment in the economy, it will be the beginning of an Islamic NATO etc.

In reality most of that stuff is just a product of overactive imaginations and reality may be much less glamorous. If what people want is 10 and nothing is 0 then reality may be in the 2-3 range. That’s still better than nothing, so I’m all in favor of the deal, whatever it is.

 

[Yasser76]

Enjoy the cope. Writer is a former Indian foreign secretary, going by this, they are shitting themselves....

The Saudi–Pakistan Pact and Global Power Games​

The announcement of a strategic defence pact between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan has many ramifications for us and for the region. India has reacted immediately, which means that we are seriously concerned and want to make our position known without delay.

We have frontally stated our serious concerns about the impact of this development on our national security as well as on regional and global stability. By underscoring in the context of this defence pact our commitment to protect our national interests and to ensure comprehensive national security in all domains, we have been unusually forthright.

Our saying that we were aware that this development, which formalises a long-standing arrangement between the two countries, has been under consideration would suggest that we were not caught completely off guard. But, if we have reacted so strongly, it is probably because of the clause in this pact, which has been highlighted in the Saudi statement, namely, that aggression against one country will be seen as aggression against the other.

Now, for Pakistan, the only country that can commit “aggression” against it is India. There is no other country from which Pakistan could fear an attack. Operation Sindoor is not yet over. If, therefore. If Pakistan sponsors another major terrorist attack and India reacts militarily, would Saudi Arabia consider it an attack on them too?

Saudi Arabia is aware of the reasons for the conflict between India and Pakistan. It is in no position to cleanse Pakistan of its jihadi outfits and end Pakistan’s long-standing policy of using terrorism as a tool against India. Pakistan has territorial claims on India, which it is determined to maintain. Its Army Chief is a diehard, India-baiting, and Hindu-baiting Islamist. The defence pact can, in fact, embolden the Pakistan military and the jihadi groups to target India.

In this situation, does Saudi Arabia want to be drawn directly into an India-Pakistan conflict in the future? If not, why then this clause that aggression against Pakistan will be considered as an aggression against Saudi Arabia too? The Saudi leader would know that India would construe this clause in the only way it has to be. Why has he allowed this concern to arise in India?

If he had anticipated this concern and clarified to us in advance the scope of this clause and the obligations on each side arising from this defence pact, our reaction would have probably been couched differently. Obviously, the Saudis did not seek to allay our concerns.

We do not, of course, expect Saudi Arabia to get directly involved in a military conflict with India. What we can expect as a result of this defence pact is Saudi financial aid to Pakistan to build its military capacities so that its security support to Saudi Arabia in the future becomes more robust.

In the recent conflict with India, Pakistan has suffered major damage to its air bases, and it would now be looking to fill the gaps in its air defences in particular. This would require a lot of money, which Pakistan can ill afford, given the state of its economy. Saudi Arabia can make financial resources available with soft loans, in addition to subsidised energy supplies.

Saudi Arabia can also become more active on the diplomatic front in favour of Pakistan. Even during Operation Sindoor, it had intervened diplomatically. After the defence pact, it could feel obliged to work in favour of Pakistan within the Islamic world and with the US.

President Trump has already expressed his desire to mediate between India and Pakistan on Kashmir, besides other signals he has given about strengthening ties with Pakistan. He has disregarded India’s concerns. He has engaged Pakistan’s Army Chief over the head of the country’s prime minister. He wants US companies to exploit Pakistan’s natural resources. In the past, the US and Saudi Arabia have collaborated against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan with Pakistan’s collaboration. That cooperative role can be revived in a different context, this time to ostensibly stabilise the situation in the sub-continent, more so if the Saudis are also investing in extracting minerals in Baluchistan.

Some commentators in India are arguing that this defence pact is directed at Israel and not India. The immediate trigger, it is being said, was the Israeli attack on Qatar. All these years, the Gulf countries, and Saudi Arabia in particular, with its massive oil resources, depended on the US for their security. Now they can no longer, as the US is fully backing Israel. Besides this, Trump’s political base is against the US getting involved in conflicts abroad and acting as the policeman of the world.

This dwindling confidence in the US as a guarantor of security in the region had already led Saudi Arabia to begin normalising its ties with Iran.

The fact remains that the US has major military bases in the region, in Qatar and in Bahrain. The US Navy is active in the region. The US has been protecting commercial shipping in the Red Sea and acting against Houthi threats. It has militarily attacked Iranian nuclear installations, something the US has never done before. The fact is also that the Gulf states are supportive of Israeli efforts to eliminate what are seen as Iranian proxies in the region, be it Hamas or Hezbollah. Despite Israel’s deadly military campaign against the Palestinians in Gaza and accusations against it of committing genocidal acts, the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco have not broken diplomatic ties with Israel.

Israel’s violation of Qatar’s sovereignty in conducting air strikes against Hamas leaders located on its territory seems to have precipitated the Saudi decision to sign the strategic defence pact with Pakistan. The “strategic” element in this is the nuclear weapon umbrella that Pakistan is providing to Saudi Arabia.

Bringing in this nuclear element into the equation would be unsettling for the region. On the one hand, Iran continues to be subject to intense pressure to prevent it from going nuclear, even though it disclaims any intention to do so, and its programme has been subject to IAEA inspections. It has been argued that if Iran went nuclear, Saudi Arabia would do so too in time. On the other hand, by accepting Pakistan’s nuclear umbrella, Saudi Arabia is now bringing in nuclear weapon deterrence in the Gulf. This could be seen as a nuclear challenge by Iran. This is bound to complicate the security issues in the Gulf region.

The assumption that Pakistan’s nuclear capacity will act as a deterrent to Israel in West Asia assumes that Israel could use nuclear weapons against the Gulf states. No Gulf state is powerful enough to threaten the existence of Israel, and Israel does not need to use nuclear weapons against Saudi Arabia. Israel has no reason to threaten the existence of Pakistan either. So, why is Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal being brought into the security arrangements in the Gulf?

India would feel perturbed by this development too. Pakistan acquired its nuclear capability clandestinely. It has been involved in proliferation activities. There has been concern in the US in particular about its nuclear weapons falling into the hands of Islamic extremists. The Pakistan Army Chief, talking to the Pakistani diaspora in the US, has been threatening to bring down half the world with the country’s nuclear weapons.

This strategic defence pact between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan rehabilitates Pakistan as a responsible state. It also politically legitimises Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal as a stabilising element regionally.

Significantly, the head of the US Central Command was in Riyadh when the defence pact with Pakistan was signed. (Oddly, Ali Larijani, head of Iran’s National Security Council, was in Riyadh too on the same day.) One can assume that the US is not against Pakistan playing a security role in the Gulf and taking the burden off the US, in the way the US wants Europe to share the security burden in Europe. This would be part of the Trump administration’s policy of strengthening ties with Pakistan and adding to strategic pressures on India, the latest being the decision to revoke the earlier waiver and impose sanctions on the Chabahar port project in Iran, in which India is participating. It is an important connectivity project that facilitates India’s access to Afghanistan and Central Asia.

The Saudi–Pakistan Pact and Global Power Games | India Narrative

The announcement of a strategic defence pact between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan has many ramifications for us and for the region. India has reacted immediately, which means that we are…

www.indianarrative.com

 

[mythbuster]

The problem was never tiny Israel on its own. The problem is that Israel and Zionism is a creation of the West and even since before their creation and ever since their creation as a "state" have been propped up by the same West/USA 24/7 militarily (enjoying the most advanced military tech for free), economically, politically and in every sphere, rendering them untouchable. As we see today unfortunately and always have seen. Not to mention the nukes in the equation which I have no doubt that they would willingly use even if it meant their own nuclear end (Samson Option) just out of spite.

That is the main problem and at the same time the fact that the US/West cannot be ignored economically and militarily by the Arabs. 80-70 years ago, when relations were first forged with the West (in the case of KSA), there were only two options, the capitalistic West (USA/Europe) or the Godless USSR who had much less to offer on every front.

In fact not many people know this, locals included, but the first country to recognize the news iteration of KSA (unified KSA under Ibn Saud (ra)), was the USSR.
There is a great article about how the Russians/USSR lost KSA.

How Moscow lost Riyadh in 1938

Russian-Saudi relations could be very different today, if Stalin hadn't killed the Soviet ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

www.aljazeera.com

So the GCC/Arab world (most of the Muslim world if not all of it and most of the world) is economically, politically and militarily tied to the West (USA in particular), been the case for decades, and it is very difficult to decouple from them overnight, especially when they have embedded themselves in the region directly.

You see it with Qatar not long ago and the Israeli attack on the Hamas delegation all while hosting the largest US base in the region (Al-Udeid).

You see one of the problems now?

This i the crux of the matter because we are all aware of who actually enables the crimes of the Zionist regime. It is the same US/West and nobody else. Not that the likes of Russia/Putin do not have close ties with them, they do, but not to such an extent even though much of the Oligarchy in Russia that keeps their (Putins) system intact are composed of Russian Jewish oligarchs..

Now, take Qatar as an example, small (tiny) country already, what would happen to it/the regime if they told the Americans to close the Al-Udeid base and say invited in the Chinese or Russians? They would not survive. And who of us (Muslims as a whole) could stand up to the US might if they decided to take such actions? Nobody. We see this impotency in Gaza as well for the very same reason that we all know that should ANY Muslim nation actually threaten the existence of Israel, the US/West (obedient slaves of the Zionists) will come to their rescue with full force.

Sad situation but it is what it is, cannot pretend it is not the case.

You seemed to be well versed in history and geopolitics but a bit short on military affairs,.....nukes are the greatest equaliser ever in military power.....for a moment ignore different opinions about Saudi Pak defence pact and focus on a single point .... what's in it for Saudi Arabia ? ......in a conventional war neither Saudi nor Pakistani are of much help to each other ( future could be different ).....for all practical purposes Saudis and by extension middle east, now , has nuclear umbrella against Israeli nuclear threat .....now , it's up to the Arabs to grow some balls and do what's needed to be done....... forget the mumbo jumbo of PDFers ... .. do you even understand what was going to happen to Iran ? ..and why the war stopped ? .....why President trump met with CAS Asim Munir ?....do you think they were discussing weather ?...... Israel was preparing to use low yield nukes against Iranian nuclear facilities....it was Pakistan's threat against the use of nukes that stopped the war ...... Saudis know that and that's what they want for themselves.

 

[_Arabia_]

No one knows what’s in the agreement, so to say “When something good happens in Pakistan” regarding this agreement is mostly conjecture. In this thread people are imagining that PAF will take over whole bases in Saudi Arabia and station multiple squadrons of fighters, maybe even nuclear missiles, there will be billions of dollars of Saudi investment in Pakistan’s defence industry, massive investment in the economy, it will be the beginning of an Islamic NATO etc.

In reality most of that stuff is just a product of overactive imaginations and reality may be much less glamorous. If what people want is 10 and nothing is 0 then reality may be in the 2-3 range. That’s still better than nothing, so I’m all in favor of the deal, whatever it is.

Deal or no deal, there is a clear and rapidly growing alignment between KSA (and the wider Arab world) and China that has only accelerated after the leaderships have once again witnessed the total impunity and support that the Zionists enjoy from the US/West. Shattering any past illusions that may remain, of the idea of a "rule based international order", "international law", "human rights" etc.

No need to mention where Pakistan fit into this calculation and why this development (at least on paper) is self-evident.

Of course nothing occurs overnight and outside elements will try to foil the potential of this agreement (which is likely to expand in scope with other Muslim nations) but the idea that it was even side (in an unstable time like the current one) speaks volume.

It is also a clear message to the US that there are limits to the Zionist insanity and servitude from their part and that they are pushing all allies away.

Let us see what will occur, for now, there is nothing to lose at all.

 

[r3alist]

Trump seriously has it in for India

Just in 1 month

50% tarrifs
Chahabar port exemotion removed
H1B Visa fees
Pro Pak view on May ceasefire


What a great "Phraaand" of Modi....

Let's not forget.....


Field marshal at lunch, mentioning brokering the ceasefire over 20 times, Pakistan referred to as a phenomenal partner in counter terrorism, pakistani's referred to as brilliant people or something, the tacit acceptance of Saudi Pakistan defence pact


The whole point is if India wants to be non-aligned to American interests, then why can the opposite not be true.

It's actually very fair

 

[r3alist]

@_Arabia_


Please continue to stick around and post.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Egypt and Jordan..

both tired and frustrated after repeated losses

should give up and let us handle the job!

 

[_Arabia_]

You seemed to be well versed in history and geopolitics but a bit short on military affairs,.....nukes are the greatest equaliser ever in military power.....for a moment ignore different opinions about Saudi Pak defence pact and focus on a single point .... what's in it for Saudi Arabia ? ......in a conventional war neither Saudi nor Pakistani or of much help to each other ( future could be different ).....for all practical purposes Saudis and by extension middle east, now , has nuclear umbrella against Israeli nuclear threat .....now , it's up to the Arabs to grow some balls and do what's needed to be done....... forget the mumbo jumbo of PDFers ... .. do you even understand what was going to happen to Iran ? ..and why the war stopped ? .....why President trump met with CAS Asim Munir ?....do you think they were discussing weather ?...... Israel was preparing to use low yield nukes against Iranian nuclear facilities....it was Pakistan's threat against the use of nukes that stopped the war ...... Saudis now that and that's what they want for themselves.

This could be the case but we are both speculating here. As for military affairs, all I know is that the Zionists/Israel, courtesy of the US/West, have the military advantage in the region (by design) and nukes which no Arabs or Muslims, aside from Pakistan, possess. I don't think that I am wrong in the military aspect that I covered.

If not the case, why have the Arabs and Muslims not long ago attacked the Zionists to stop the bloodbath in Gaza with Pakistan (the strongest of them) at the helm? It contradicts what you are saying.

As for the Zionist/US bombing of Iran, I have no clue what stopped them but it appears to me that they did the job that they wanted to/intended to. Destroyed their nuclear program for good, most of their anti-ballistic missile systems, much of their military infrastructure, killed/assassinated most of their main scientists and a ton of military commanders. Now the Iranian regime is capitulating before the world and sanctions are even back.

Not sure why they needed to nuke Iran to achieve the above. They would only do so in case Iran posed an existential threat to Israel and Iran does not pose any such threats with all due respect to Iranian missiles.

In short Zionist entity/Israel = USA/WEST/NATO de facto.

@_Arabia_


Please continue to stick around and post.

I will try, at least occasionally, but no guarantees. A good place to have interesting discussions, no doubt, and always interesting to follow the developments in Pakistan and see the opinions of our Pakistani friends. Just a shame that there are not more active Arab users (very few of us) and more interestingly, users with different opinions etc to give other perspectives. We have Arab social media/forums for that but many of them tend to be echo chambers or places where moderators are trying to restrict "outside of the box" thinking because you tend to receive all kinds of various labels for doing so at times. PDF for whatever reason, is capable of something that no other forum is, lol, in a good way.

 

[Yasser76]

Egypt and Jordan..

both tired and frustrated after repeated losses

should give up and let us handle the job!

Jordan has been a loyal ally of Pakistan and sent us F-104s during war and handed over used F-16s, however, in the light of the bigger picture, I cannot think of a country more useless to the Arab cause in the last 30 years.

Sauds should have kept Transjordan from the Hashemites....

Less said about Sadat, Mubarak and Sisi the better. Nasser was the shining jewel for Egypt and the Arab world, now they are basically a US/Israeli puppet

 

[mythbuster]

This could be the case but we are both speculating here. As for military affairs, all I know is that the Zionists/Israel, courtesy of the US/West, have the military advantage in the region (by design) and nukes which no Arabs or Muslims, aside from Pakistan, possess. I don't think that I am wrong in the military aspect that I covered.

If not the case, why have the Arabs and Muslims not long ago attacked the Zionists to stop the bloodbath in Gaza with Pakistan (the strongest of them) at the helm? It contradicts what you are saying.

As for the Zionist/US bombing of Iran, I have no clue what stopped them but it appears to me that they did the job that they wanted to/intended to. Destroyed their nuclear program for good, most of their anti-ballistic missile systems, much of their military infrastructure, killed/assassinated most of their main scientists and a ton of military commanders. Now the Iranian regime is capitulating before the world and sanctions are even back.

Not sure why they needed to nuke Iran to achieve the above. They would only do so in case Iran posed an existential threat to Israel and Iran does not pose any such threats with all due respect to Iranian missiles.

In short Zionist entity/Israel = USA/WEST/NATO de facto.

On your first part ' contradiction ' .....there is none...... Palestine/Gaza is not a red line for Pakistan...you can't be cavalier in establishing red lines .......on the Iranian part ....in the begining Americans were reluctant to use those powerful bunker busters against the Iranian nuclear sites....after the Israeli threat of using nukes and Pakistan's counter threat a compromise was made ...nukes will not be used and America will take out Iranian nuclear facilities....... Statecraft is a dirty game , it's beyond the comprehension of armchair intellectuals of social media.