Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions

[Eşbah]

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What could it be? My gut feeling tells me it is something Iran-related.

 

[hyperman]

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What could it be? My gut feeling tells me it is something Iran-related.

we will see what the ask is, but I honestly don't think Turkey should be desperate for this plane by doing something rash. Even in the worst case scenario, with no planes and no engines, KAAN would only be delayed 2 years from the current timeline, with reengining and testing with Chinese or Russian(more likely China than Russia) engines for mass production. Turkey has already taken delivery of the F110 engines needed for the construction of prototypes for testing and certifying the jet and its subsystems.

They can delay, but they cannot stop the KAAN.

 

[Foinikas]

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What could it be? My gut feeling tells me it is something Iran-related.

Restore relations with Israel

 

[Merzifonlu]

Restore relations with Israel

This is impossible task already. May be in next life! After what happened in Gaza, no Turkish government would agree to this. This issue is no longer exclusive to the AKP.

This means we will pursue solutions that do not involve the F-35s. Judging by the trajectory of relations, solutions that do not involve any USA components will also be on the agenda in the near future.

 

[eagleeye]

Restore relations with Israel

That will not Happen it doesn't matter what it is.

 

[Foinikas]

This is impossible task already. May be in next life! After what happened in Gaza, no Turkish government would agree to this. This issue is no longer exclusive to the AKP.

Good point. It would be a political suicide to restore relations right now. I'm not saying Trump wouldn't try,but it would be very hard to sell it to the people and even the establishment itself in Turkey. Unless there is a change of government,Erdogan deposed or some kind of an undisputed electoral victory from another party. That too would be hard to sell to the people though. CHP could use this as point to gain favor against AKP,
criticize Erdogan's "soft" stance against Israel. Although it's a bit hard to imagine CHP doing that.

 

[Merzifonlu]

The Israeli government, acting without considering the future, has violated three borders that Türkiye should never have crossed. The first is the genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. The second is open support for the PKK in Syria. The third is the official declaration of Türkiye as a perpetrator of genocide.

Even if the CHP comes to power with all 600 deputies in the Turkish Grand National Assembly (TBMM), and the CHP is the most Western-oriented party, its policy toward Israel will no longer differ from the AKP's. In fact, it will be even harsher.

Therefore, I say that in the near future, Türkiye will not allow USA components in any of its weapons systems, including aviation. In fact, she will not be content with just the defense industry. She will also remove USA components from critical sectors, such as the financial system and communications infrastructure. Whatever the USA is doing in terms of security policy toward China, Türkiye will do the same Israel a.k.a. USA.

If I were the decision-makers in Greece, I would not be happy about this. On the contrary, I would be deeply concerned. A Türkiye that is not committed to alliances is bad news for Greece.

 

[Foinikas]

Therefore, I say that in the near future, Türkiye will not allow USA components in any of its weapons systems, including aviation. In fact, she will not be content with just the defense industry. She will also remove USA components from critical sectors, such as the financial system and communications infrastructure. Whatever the USA is doing in terms of security policy toward China, Türkiye will do the same Israel a.k.a. USA.

It really is very interesting to see what both Trump and Erdogan and decide and what will USA allow or negotiate about and what will Turkey ask from them. Trump is a very...how can I say it,different leader than all the other presidents the last 30 years. He's both predictable and unpredictable.

The question is: What will Turkey do with the Russians? How will Putin take all this?

If I were the decision-makers in Greece, I would not be happy about this. On the contrary, I would be deeply concerned. A Türkiye that is not committed to alliances is bad news for Greece.

Alliances you mean NATO or generally,for example deals with Russia? Or you mean because of the self-reliance?

 

[RajaBaja]

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What could it be? My gut feeling tells me it is something Iran-related.

Turkey will get the F-35's eventually. All it needs to do is, make about 6 prototypes of Kaan, 2 for ground testing, etc, and the other 4 for flight testing. It will tell the world that it's not dependent.

Ukraine can give you engines similar to the one's used in J-10C's. You guys are already buying engines from them for drones. But getting KAAN out in a few numbers and up in the air will be the master stroke.

 

[hyperman]

Ukraine can give you engines similar to the one's used in J-10C's.

Ukraine does not have such engines. Only 2 countries in the world other than the US have the engines in the class the KAAN is using, and that China and Russia.

Buying Russian is complicated as they are a neighbor and a potential rival in some areas, so China is the only viable option IMO. Whether the WS-10C or the WS-15s whatever they are willing to sell.

 

[hyperman]

2nd prototype under construction.

 

[RajaBaja]

Ukraine does not have such engines. Only 2 countries in the world other than the US have the engines in the class the KAAN is using, and that China and Russia.

Buying Russian is complicated as they are a neighbor and a potential rival in some areas, so China is the only viable option IMO. Whether the WS-10C or the WS-15s whatever they are willing to sell.

Are there any negotiations ongoing? Pakistan needs an engine solution for it's JF-17 block III and future jets. So may be there can be 1 engine class both can buy from China under TOT and build it locally in these 2 countries?

 

[hyperman]

Are there any negotiations ongoing? Pakistan needs an engine solution for it's JF-17 block III and future jets. So may be there can be 1 engine class both can buy from China under TOT and build it locally in these 2 countries?

no, its a contingency, Ismael Demir mentioned that Turkey held talks about contingencies with an unnamed country(people suspect its China or Russia, probably China) several years back when the first flight was taking place, saying the other country had agreed to sell, but that Turkey was not going to act on it if the F110s are available.

As the F110 has not been blocked and so far things are going smoothly, the contingency is largely irrelevant. Hopefully we won't need them, and things will go well with the F110 and a smooth transition to the TF35000.

With regards to Pakistan, this engine will not won on the JF-17. This engine is a heavy engine, what Pakistan is using is a medium sized engine.

So Turkey is pursuing the engine used on the J-10C/J-16/J-20 which is the WS-10/WS-15. Whereas the engine for the JF-17s, similar to the size of the RD-93 from Russia that Pakistan is currently using would be the WS-13 or the WS-19 in development that China will use on the J-35 when it is ready, and can be in theory used on the JF-17. If Pakistan wants an alternative to the RD-93 from Russia, they can use the WS-13 from China, but thus far Pakistan has opted not to do that, b/c it would be two different maintenance and logistics from the current one it uses on its current JF-17s.

 

[RajaBaja]

no, its a contingency, Ismael Demir mentioned that Turkey held talks about contingencies with an unnamed country(people suspect its China or Russia, probably China) several years back when the first flight was taking place, saying the other country had agreed to sell, but that Turkey was not going to act on it if the F110s are available.

As the F110 has not been blocked and so far things are going smoothly, the contingency is largely irrelevant. Hopefully we won't need them, and things will go well with the F110 and a smooth transition to the TF35000.

With regards to Pakistan, this engine will not won on the JF-17. This engine is a heavy engine, what Pakistan is using is a medium sized engine.

So Turkey is pursuing the engine used on the J-10C/J-16/J-20 which is the WS-10/WS-15. Whereas the engine for the JF-17s, similar to the size of the RD-93 from Russia that Pakistan is currently using would be the WS-13 or the WS-19 in development that China will use on the J-35 when it is ready, and can be in theory used on the JF-17. If Pakistan wants an alternative to the RD-93 from Russia, they can use the WS-13 from China, but thus far Pakistan has opted not to do that, b/c it would be two different maintenance and logistics from the current one it uses on its current JF-17s.

The reason I said both Turkey and Pakistan should get one engine with TOT and produce it locally, was to share TOT and developmental cost. Pakistan will not use a medium engine for it's PFX as the demand for more weapons, range and sensors is already there. JF-17 was just our step 1 into the aviation industry primarily due to wanting independence of sanctions and a weak economy. But that's no longer the case, so under PFX, a J-10C level engine will power it. So if Turkey and Pakistan collaborate, it may be beneficial for both. Otherwise Pakistan will get an engine from China with TOT post 2030 to build locally like you are doing to GE F-110.

 

[hyperman]

The reason I said both Turkey and Pakistan should get one engine with TOT and produce it locally, was to share TOT and developmental cost. Pakistan will not use a medium engine for it's PFX as the demand for more weapons, range and sensors is already there. JF-17 was just our step 1 into the aviation industry primarily due to wanting independence of sanctions and a weak economy. But that's no longer the case, so under PFX, a J-10C level engine will power it. So if Turkey and Pakistan collaborate, it may be beneficial for both. Otherwise Pakistan will get an engine from China with TOT post 2030 to build locally like you are doing to GE F-110.

Turkey does not need a TOT and license production. Turkey has been License producing the F110 with tech transfer for decades via the F-16 program. What Turkey needs is a stopgap until the TF35000 is ready. Two separate requirements.

Once the TF35000 is ready, which should be in the 2030s in a 5-10 year span from now, Turkey would have no need for any other engine, so no point in doing a TOT with License production, it takes a while to set up a production line and tech transfer to produce an engine, buy off the shelf is a better solution for Turkey than doing something extensive like a TOT License production, and it would be a overlap of what already exists with the F110.

I don't see Pakistan building a separate manned PFX fighter, that would be a foolish use of resources, even Sweden with a greater GDP and technical means via the Gripen program is not pursuing a separate 5th/6th gen program. Money is better spent elsewhere. Pakistan should concentrate on building CCAs, to then use with System of System aircraft either bought from China(J-35) or Turkey(KAAN).