PAF F-16 | Discussions

[ziaulislam]

That is why I dont think there is any value in purchasing new build F16Vs given the cost involved. Upgrade of the F16 Radars, and missiles for the existing fleet to be able to use the C8's should cover all that is required.

The focus for new procurements has to be stealth, and J10CE's until the J-35A's are ready.

There is a case for older f16s but i doubt we will get those

 

[Ak01]

A certain retard believe the Ds hold the longest a2a kill record by hitting a "drone" at "undisclosed" range (as if his phoopa works at Raytheon) while dismissing PL15 kill of actual 4.5 gen aircraft at 190km+ range. How do you deal with such buffoonery?

If these Ds are coming for free, then why not, but to spend such resources from own pocket on capability which is inferior to what you already got (and battle proven), not so wise. Rather you spend that money to enhance on your capabilities.

I take your point of 75 F16s in our inventory, but would that mean significant upgrades on them to effectively employ Ds? None of them are AESA equipped, while all our PL15 carrying fleet is. Argument can be made that all these F16s needs AESA upgraded to be able to achieve that very long range a2a kills that we did with our J10s. If that's the case, how much the cost escalates to?

taimoor for CAS!

 

[abcefg]

The A/Bs underwent a mid-life SLEP in 2015. The 2016-17 TAI upgrade was related to NVIS capability enhancement and went ahead. As for the ADFs, I don't believe the air force saw a lot of value in upgrading them given their intended role and the associated costs. However, there may now be a prospect that the ADFs could recieve donor avionics drawn from the aircraft potentially slated for F-16V conversion, but that's just a thought

The F-16 is and has always been a worthwhile investment for Pakistan, despite what some people would have you believe

41 A/B MLU was completed by 2014, and no other structural upgrades were carried out after that. NVs were handled locally by importing kits and manuals, if I'm not mistaken.
Famous 100 million $ deal didn't go through I remember the old forum chats from that time.

Also PAF had the choice to get Jordanian upgraded f-16s for next to nothing, wonder why it wasn't done :/

 

[Strawman]

41 A/B MLU was completed by 2014, and no other structural upgrades were carried out after that. NVs were handled locally by importing kits and manuals, if I'm not mistaken.
Famous 100 million $ deal didn't go through I remember the old forum chats from that time.

Also PAF had the choice to get Jordanian upgraded f-16s for next to nothing, wonder why it wasn't done :/

The NVIS work was to be carried out locally with OEM involvement/oversight. Don't recall the jets needing any other structural upgrades after the 8K SLEP for those 32 airframes. The 14 PGIII/IV OCUs had different airframes that did not require external strengthening.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

No one has asked this after the AMRAAM C8 or D3 order: to fully utilize their capabilities, we must upgrade our F-16s; otherwise, procuring these missiles makes no sense. If not a full fleet upgrade, at least the Block 52s are candidates for upgrades. Does this mean we’re getting an F-16 upgrade? Or new Vipers? There was news earlier about the UAE Air Force transferring Block 60s to Pakistan. Whatever the case, it’s confirmed we’ll get AESA-based F-16s—whether through upgrades of some or a few, a new order, or from another country. This should be the real discussion here now.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Most likely the AMRAM missiles could be bugged can't trust any gift from Uncle anymore

What is it we just woke up one day and all of sudden we have offer for F16 gifts ?Just like that

Last thing you want is AMRAM missile to explode instead of launching

Fyntynal-16 and any upgrade should be avoided

If any espionage happens against Pakistan Airforce it will be on these Fyntynal-16 upgrades

The Fyntynal-16 upgrades no one know what is uploaded or which hardware gets changed

Focus on own BVR Missiles and PFX

2006 Was different era when we had the last upgrade
there is too much unpredictability at present time

 

[Oscar]

No one has asked this after the AMRAAM C8 or D3 order: to fully utilize their capabilities, we must upgrade our F-16s; otherwise, procuring these missiles makes no sense. If not a full fleet upgrade, at least the Block 52s are candidates for upgrades. Does this mean we’re getting an F-16 upgrade? Or new Vipers? There was news earlier about the UAE Air Force transferring Block 60s to Pakistan. Whatever the case, it’s confirmed we’ll get AESA-based F-16s—whether through upgrades of some or a few, a new order, or from another country. This should be the real discussion here now.

Please go through the last few pages

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Getting items which can't be maintained by local staff
or analyse the code or hardware is risk

If anything is needed

• First get the Super Cobra with Engines
• Second approval for Helicopter Engine for 40-60 Helicopters from Turkey

Get the stuff our Engineers can open and maintain

Safer Bet

 

[CSAW]

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[CSAW]

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امریکہ کا پاکستان کو جدید ایمریم میزائل فروخت کرنے کا فیصلہ لیکن اس کی صلاحیت کیا ہے؟​

امریکہ کا پاکستان کو جدید ایمرا میزائل فروخت کرنے کا فیصلہ لیکن اس کی صلاحیت کیا ہے؟ - BBC News اردو

امریکہ کی جانب سے پاکستان کو ایمرا میزائلوں کے خریداروں کی فہرست میں شامل کرنے کو دونوں ملکوں کے درمیان بڑھتی گرمجوشی کے تناظر میں دیکھا جا رہا ہے۔

www.bbc.com

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[Taimoor]

taimoor for CAS!

Thank you for your vote, much appreciated!

 

[Ali_Baba]

Getting items which can't be maintained by local staff
or analyse the code or hardware is risk

If anything is needed

• First get the Super Cobra with Engines

Super Cobra should be absorbed into the American Marines now, there is no need for them now given the WZ-10 is here and Pakistan will look at the T-929 with Turkiye when that is ready.

• Second approval for Helicopter Engine for 40-60 Helicopters from Turkey

Get the stuff our Engineers can open and maintain

Safer Bet

Think Pakistan has moved on from the T-129 now, and will wait for the T-929 ( my theory ) which will fill in the capability at the higher end as the WZ-10 will fill in what the T-129 was for ( of course, expect China to push their WZ-21 very heavily when that requirement materialises ).

There is of course a question mark over attack helicopters with the rise of UAV/Drones so the prospect of Pakistan operating both the WZ-10, and the Super Cobra's is not there really, let alone the T-129.

 

[Ali_Baba]

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I would really like to know why the JF17 Block II's cannot operate the PL-15E in "Cooperative engagement assistance" mode ?

To me, logically, it is an odd limitation that I struggle to understand.

The advantage is a larger fleet of PL15Es capable planes, which in "Cooperative engagement assistance" mode can outclass the whole of the IAF, but in "non Cooperative engagement assistance", the missiles will have a larger NEZ anyway as a benefit if they are forced to use their own radars( albeit with smaller detection range). The Block II wings have been strengthened and the software changes to introduce the missile to Block II should be minimum

@side-winder - is there a reason for the limitation of why we have not seen this integration? is it technical, or political ( ie commercial business/reasons ? ).

 

[Gripen9]

If US offered PAF say 4 F-16V Sqds (72 planes) at $9 Billion plus say $1 Billion to upgrade our 18 C/Ds. That is 5 full V squadrons.

Saudis fund the package, we then station a wing (2 Sqds) in Saudi and keep 3 Sqds in Pak.


US is a winner, Saudi is a winner, Pakistan is a winner.

#achasorry

 

[m52k85]

I would really like to know why the JF17 Block II's cannot operate the PL-15E in "Cooperative engagement assistance" mode ?

To me, logically, it is an odd limitation that I struggle to understand.

The advantage is a larger fleet of PL15Es capable planes, which in "Cooperative engagement assistance" mode can outclass the whole of the IAF, but in "non Cooperative engagement assistance", the missiles will have a larger NEZ anyway as a benefit if they are forced to use their own radars( albeit with smaller detection range). The Block II wings have been strengthened and the software changes to introduce the missile to Block II should be minimum

@side-winder - is there a reason for the limitation of why we have not seen this integration? is it technical, or political ( ie commercial business/reasons ? ).

The hint lies in the description of Jf-17 block 3 by its Chinese designers and in the first feedback aired from the horses mouth of Pakistan J-10s. These machines are built around sensor and processor while older 4th gen are not. So block-2s would need some replacements in terms of weapons computers, data link attenas and prcessors and they will be good to go. It can be dones, its just that there is no impending need to do so. It is more of a war scenario, an option in the bag in case things get really messy.