The Case for Pakistan as a Civilizational State

[Watandar]

It's an easier alphabet than what Lashkari currently uses. It is printed, much more simplified and will make literacy much higher.

A Pakistani on Facebook was preoccupied with removing Arabic script and when i showed him that alphabet, he went to the effort of creating a modified version of it and sending it to me.

A printed alphabet is much easier than the current alphabet.

I was mystified by what you meant by "Lashkari" and looked it up. Turns out you meant Urdu and its linked with that old myth of Urdu originating in lashkar camps.

Dawn has explored this topic and scholars say Urdh originating as a Lashkari zuban is a myth.

The origin of Urdu and Suhail Bukhari`s linguistic theories

The origin and genesis of Urdu has always been a subject of animated discussion — and a source of unending...

www.dawn.com

Urdu’s origin: it’s not a ‘camp language’

Some myths are so deep-rooted that one has to work really hard to make people, especially students face facts. One such myth is about the origin of Urdu. Most of our students subscribe to the view that Urdu is a ‘lashkari zaban’ or ‘camp language’.

www.dawn.com

 

[ThunderCat]

I was mystified by what you meant by "Lashkari" and looked it up. Turns out you meant Urdu and its linked with that old myth of Urdu originating in lashkar camps.

Dawn has explored this topic and scholars say Urdh originating as a Lashkari zuban is a myth.

Dawn is a joke. Do you know what "urdu" even means? It means camp language.

Lashkar means battalions, in reference to the battalions of the Ghaznavid Empire, which is where this language originates. Strange how you are mystified by the original and indigenous names for your own language but not by a foreign meaningless name.

I've read those stupid articles years ago. Basically they're stating "camp language is not a camp language."

Care to explain these quotes:
In his respect, Lashkari or Urdu replaced Farsi or Persian, which was being used and understood by fewer and fewer individuals.

• Dhir, K. S. (2022). The Wonder that is Urdu: A Multidisciplinary Analysis. India: Motilal Banarsidass.

"In fact this mixture of locals and foreigners gave birth to the language later known as "Urdu" in Lahore that was called Lashkari Zaban
(language of the army) at that time."

• Khalid, Kanwal. Lahore During the Ghaznavid Period

"The very word Urdu came into being as the original Lashkari dialect, in other words, the language of the army."

• Aijazuddin Ahmad. Geography of the South Asian Subcontinent: A Critical Approach. p. 120.

 

[El Sidd]

Dawn is a joke. Do you know what "urdu" even means? It means camp language.

Lashkar means battalions, in reference to the battalions of the Ghaznavid Empire, which is where this language originates. Strange how you are mystified by the original and indigenous names for your own language but not by a foreign meaningless name.

I've read those stupid articles years ago. Basically they're stating "camp language is not a camp language."

Care to explain these quotes:
In his respect, Lashkari or Urdu replaced Farsi or Persian, which was being used and understood by fewer and fewer individuals.

• Dhir, K. S. (2022). The Wonder that is Urdu: A Multidisciplinary Analysis. India: Motilal Banarsidass.

"In fact this mixture of locals and foreigners gave birth to the language later known as "Urdu" in Lahore that was called Lashkari Zaban
(language of the army) at that time."

• Khalid, Kanwal. Lahore During the Ghaznavid Period

"The very word Urdu came into being as the original Lashkari dialect, in other words, the language of the army."

• Aijazuddin Ahmad. Geography of the South Asian Subcontinent: A Critical Approach. p. 120.

What purpose will it serve to take away the flexibility of the Ordu language? It is a very young language and has no problem integrating or borrowing words from any language( klingon and binary ) included.

By Einschränkung the grammar to some perceived past golden age, you are doing disservice to the language.

You are nothing but a language Ayatullah or a Lughat Nazi.

 

[ThunderCat]

What purpose will it serve to take away the flexibility of the Ordu language? It is a very young language and has no problem integrating or borrowing words from any language( klingon and binary ) included.

By Einschränkung the grammar to some perceived past golden age, you are doing disservice to the language.

You are nothing but a language Ayatullah or a Lughat Nazi.

A thousands years is not young and "ordu" is a fictitious name given by the ***** poet Mashafi. This name simply didn't exist for the language before 350 years ago.

Are you telling me calling it a camp language is okay but it's not? Because that's exactly what "urdu" means. And it has no meaning in our lexicon.

Do Greek people call their language Greek natively or call it by it's indigenous name Hellenis? Why should we use a word that has no meaning to us and emphasizes it as a camp language when it clearly is not.

 

[ThunderCat]

You are nothing but a language Ayatullah or a Lughat Nazi.

So sates the moron who thinks this is the only language that can integrate words. Almost all languages have.

 

[El Sidd]

A thousands years is not young and "ordu" is a fictitious name given by the ***** poet Mashafi. This name simply didn't exist for the language before 350 years ago.

Are you telling me calling it a camp language is okay but it's not? Because that's exactly what "urdu" means. And it has no meaning in our lexicon.

Do Greek people call their language Greek natively or call it by it's indigenous name Hellenis? Why should we use a word that has no meaning to us and emphasizes it as a camp language when it clearly is not.

It's a borrowed Turkic word, Ordu, interessanter weise there is a small town of strategic military importance in Turkey by the same name as well.

What is the difference between Urdu and Khari Boli?

So sates the moron who thinks this is the only language that can integrate words. Almost all languages have.

Yes, show me one language more that has the capacity or flexibility of Ordu.

 

[ThunderCat]

It's a borrowed Turkic word, Ordu, interessanter weise there is a small town of strategic military importance in Turkey by the same name as well.

What is the difference between Urdu and Khari Boli?

Yes I know it's a borrowed word, but what meaning does it have to us; especially when Turkic languages are of no relationship with Indo-Aryan languages?

Khariboli influenced Lashkari while it eventually adopted the name "urdu." It is not the same language. What is the different between Latin and English?

One influenced the other. English is not Latin and Latin is not English.

 

[El Sidd]

Yes I know it's a borrowed word, but what meaning does it have to us; especially when Turkic languages are of no relationship with Indo-Aryan languages?

Khariboli influenced Lashkari while it eventually adopted the name "urdu." It is not the same language. What is the different between Latin and English?

One influenced the other. English is not Latin and Latin is not English.

The term lashkari also employs that it was a name given to it by 'others'.

 

[ThunderCat]

The term lashkari also employs that it was a name given to it by 'others'.

it is an existing name, predating "ordu" by centuries and still has meaning in our lexicon. "ordu" does not.

"ordo" implies camp language, when historians & linguists argue it is not.

 

[El Sidd]

it is an existing name, predating "ordu" by centuries and still has meaning in our lexicon. "ordu" does not.

"ordo" implies camp language, when historians & linguists argue it is not.

Historians and linguists are politically aligned. The evidence of Urdu being a camp language outweighs the notion that it was not.

Farsi - language of the Mughal Court
Urdu - language of the Mughal army

 

[nahtanbob]

What was you bar?

"Can script be deciphered saar?? If not, it cannot be civilisation saar!"

it is one of the bars for historians

 

[nahtanbob]

The house of Saud itself was raised by a coloniser to oust a rival coloniser.

Are you for real this illiterate??

Let me rephrase
Arabian peninsula has never been colonized by an European power

 

[nahtanbob]

When you parade these civilizations as if they were your own, you glorify them. But once reminded they were situated in Pakistan, they become "just a bunch of settlements."

ok, you cannot decipher the script by some strange turn of history
any empires or kingdoms after that, centered on Pakistani soil ??

 

[Hiroshi9x]

Pakistan did not capitalize on this and instead made claim on every invading force that for the most part plundered and looted the locals of this land.

Natural identity of Pakistan is Indo-Aryan.

Punjabis, dards and sindhis are civilizational entities that form this state. Till their identity is not marginalized, we'll never achieve this.

 

[ThunderCat]

Natural identity of Pakistan is Indo-Aryan.

No it is Indo-Iranic of which Indo-Aryan is a subgoruping.

Pashtuns, Baloch, Wakhis are Iranic peoples, which is also a subgrouping of Indo-Iranic. Calling our national identity Indo-Aryan is alienating them.