800+km range BrahMos missile successfully test fired by Indian Navy

[DDG-80]

Their hypersonic missiles are falling from the sky. If the Russians had any faith in their Oniks and Brahmos, they would have used them. The fact they don’t despite the dire need, says a lot.

Ukraine and the Kinzhal: Don’t believe the hypersonic hype

Reporting of Ukraine’s shootdown of Russian hypersonics tells only a partial truth. Russian hypersonic missiles do not yet pose the dire threat to Western interests.

www.brookings.edu

First, you need to grasp the distinctions between various types of missiles: aero-launched ballistic missiles such as Kinzhal, supersonic cruise missiles like KH-22 and BrahMos, Oniks, and BrahMos, true hypersonic missiles like Zircon, and glide vehicles like Avangard. Aero-launched ballistic missiles fly very high into space and then come back down at high speeds to their target, like throwing a ball up and having it fall back down. Supersonic cruise missiles, including special variants like the KH-22 and BrahMos, fly fast at lower altitudes, hugging the ground, and maneuvering to their target. They also possess steep dive capabilities, allowing them to approach targets from high altitudes and rapidly descend upon them, enhancing their effectiveness. Hypersonic cruise missiles fly very fast, faster than the speed of sound, and can change direction in flight. Glide vehicles are launched into space, then glide through the atmosphere at incredible speeds toward their target, similar to a spacecraft re-entering Earth's atmosphere

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Analysis of BrahMos Anti-Ship Missile Flight Paths​

BrahMos Missile Capabilities:​

1. Double S-Maneuver Path:
   • The missile performs high-speed, complex maneuvers in an S-form.
   • Final approach is extremely low, hitting just one meter above the waterline.
   • Designed to evade horizontal detection and interception, presenting a challenging engagement profile due to its unpredictable path and low altitude.
2. Vertical Steep Dive Path:
   • The missile executes a near-vertical dive, descending at a 90-degree angle in the terminal phase.
   • This path makes it an "ultimate aircraft carrier killer" due to the difficulty of detecting and intercepting a target descending from directly above.

Comparative Lethality and Difficulty of Interception​

Lethality:​

• Double S-Maneuver:
  • Lethal due to its low-altitude terminal attack, minimizing reaction time for ship defenses.
  • Complex maneuvers make it difficult to predict and track.
• Vertical Steep Dive:
  • Extremely lethal, especially against large targets like aircraft carriers.
  • High kinetic energy from the steep descent, combined with precise targeting, results in devastating impact.

Difficulty of Interception:​

• Double S-Maneuver:
  • Harder to track due to unpredictable lateral movements.
  • Low-altitude approach reduces radar line-of-sight and reaction time.
• Vertical Steep Dive:
  • Hard to detect due to high descent angle.
  • Requires interception systems with full vertical coverage and quick reaction capability.

SAM Systems Evaluation: HQ-16FE vs. LR-SAM​

HQ-16FE:​

• Strengths:
  • Advanced phased array radar with a range of at least 250 km.
  • Multi-target tracking capability.
• Weaknesses:
  • Elevation coverage limited to 0° to 80°.
  • Less suitable for near-vertical or high-angle interceptions.
• Interception Analysis:
  • Double S-Maneuver: The HQ-16FE might struggle with the low-altitude, high-maneuverability approach due to potential gaps in radar coverage and slower reaction times.
  • Vertical Steep Dive: The system is likely to fail against a 90-degree dive due to its inability to track targets at steep vertical angles.

LR-SAM:​

• Strengths:
  • Full 0° to 90° elevation coverage.
  • Detection range up to 450 km.
  • Rapid reaction time.
  • Dual-pulse solid propulsion and active seeker for precise terminal guidance.
• Weaknesses:
  • None specific for the discussed threat profiles.
• Interception Analysis:
  • Double S-Maneuver: More capable of tracking and intercepting due to better maneuverability and reaction times. However, the low-altitude approach still presents challenges.
  • Vertical Steep Dive: Well-suited to intercept steep dive attacks due to full vertical coverage and rapid response capabilities.

Conclusion:​

Most Dangerous and Lethal Path:

• Vertical Steep Dive is considered more lethal and difficult to intercept, especially for large targets like aircraft carriers. The near-vertical descent increases impact energy and complicates detection and interception.

Most Difficult to Intercept:

• Both flight paths are challenging, but the Vertical Steep Dive presents the greatest difficulty due to the need for full vertical coverage and rapid reaction.

System Likely to Fail:

• HQ-16FE would likely fail against both flight paths of the BrahMos missile:
  • Double S-Maneuver: Struggles with low-altitude tracking and high maneuverability.
  • Vertical Steep Dive: Cannot track targets descending from 90 degrees.

System Likely to Succeed:

• LR-SAM is better equipped to handle both flight paths:
  • Double S-Maneuver: Enhanced maneuverability and quick reaction times, though challenging due to low altitude.
  • Vertical Steep Dive: Full 0° to 90° coverage makes it capable of intercepting near-vertical threats effectively.

In summary, the LR-SAM system is more capable of dealing with both flight paths of the BrahMos missile, particularly the steep dive, which is the most lethal and difficult to intercept. The HQ-16FE system is less likely to succeed against these advanced attack profiles due to its limited elevation coverage and potentially slower reaction capabilities.

Lol we also have layered defense on our type 54AP for your out of this universe/invincible/invisible BRAHMOUSE and long/medium range SAMs have a least capability to intercept supersonic anti-ship Missiles but short range SAMs are intended for intercepting supersonic anti-ship Missiles like US ESSM/RAM, UK CAMM/CAMM-ER, Chinese HHQ-10/FL 3000N/FN 3000 and Russian counterparts

So your out of this universe BRAHMOUSE is no problem for PN because we have FL 3000N on our type 54AP and also we will have CAMM-ER on our upcoming Jinnah class frigate from Turkiye, so your rants and trolls are not worked here, you don't know technicalities of modern naval warfare

USN is more concern about hybrid anti-ship cruise missiles (subsonic at cruise phase + and supersonic at terminal phase) they have both qualities stealth and sea skimming of subsonic anti-ship cruise missiles and low reaction time of supersonic anti-ship Missiles at terminal phase like Russian sizzler and Chinese YJ-18 than all supersonic anti-ship Missiles like BRAHMOUSE which is easily detected/track and engage much earlier than supersonic anti-ship Missiles like your out of this universe BRAHMOUSE

And for double S maneuver its just a marketing stunts with no backup, can you show me a one clip of your out of this universe BRAHMOUSE is doing S maneuver at terminal phase let alone double S maneuver nonsense

 

[DDG-80]

And for double S maneuver its just a marketing stunts with no backup, can you show me a one clip of your out of this universe BRAHMOUSE is doing S maneuver at terminal phase let alone double S maneuver nonsense

You're speaking as if this is my personal claim, but it's actually based on the company's thorough testing of this particular flight profile. We rigorously tested it and achieved this capability back in 2013.

 

[SecularNationalist]

How many indian bases successfully hit?

 

[DDG-80]

so your rants and trolls are not worked here, you don't know technicalities of modern naval warfare

This image demonstrates the sheer kinetic power of a dummy BrahMos missile, which has penetrated the ship's hull without the aid of a warhead. The left side of the image highlights the impact damage and resulting hole, emphasizing the missile's destructive potential. When equipped with a full warhead and launched in salvo mode, the BrahMos missile's capability would be exponentially more devastating.

 

[Falcon26]

Post #86 contains a link to the article showcasing the wreckage of the Patriot air defense system. No system is invincible.

First of all, stop replying to the same messages multiple times in different posts. Organize your response in 1 post. It makes it difficult to follow your argument when you divide your response to multiple different posts.

Secondly, the first Patriot missile to be destroyed by the Russians happened couple months, a full two years after the war has begun. This should tell you everything you need to know about the effectiveness of the Russian missiles.

Thirdly, obviously Ukraine won’t stop each and every missile launched by the Russians. The patriot systems and the Ukrainians have to prioritize what missiles to intercept as to preserve their stocks.

As we saw, during Iran’s missile and drone salvo launch few weeks ago, the saturation levels will mean some will inevitably get away despite best attempts to stop them. This is the reality of air defense systems.

A Russian Drone Spotted A Ukrainian Patriot Air-Defense Crew Convoying Near The Front Line. Soon, A Russian Hypersonic Missile Streaked Down.

A Russian drone operator’s persistence paid off when they located a Ukrainian convoy including, it seems, two truck-mounted quad-launchers for a Patriot missile battery.

www.forbes.com

The Oniks and all the other Russian missiles have been shot down. My point was to emphasize that there’s nothing uniquely special and which makes the oniks and their derivative the Brahmis invincible, as you and other Indians routinely claim. You’re falling for a marketing gimmick, in fact, deliberately to over-exaggerate the capabilities of the Brahmins & the Onika they are based off. Shooting down the Oniks have been a routine business in Ukraine. The only exception is the Zircon, which the Russians haven’t used in appreciable numbers to objectively analyze. Heck no one even knows how the Zircon looks like, even though most people think it’s based off the Oniks.

3M22 Zircon: Debunking Misconceptions

There has been a lot of talk about the Russian Zircon/Tsirkon missile recently, particularly in light of strikes on Kiev in late March that were said to have used it.

simplicius76.substack.com

 

[DDG-80]

The Oniks and all the other Russian missiles have been shot down. My point was to emphasize that there’s nothing uniquely special and which makes the oniks and their derivative the Brahmis invincible, as you and other Indians routinely claim. You’re falling for a marketing gimmick, in fact, deliberately to over-exaggerate the capabilities of the Brahmins & the Onika they are based off. Shooting down the Oniks have been a routine business in Ukraine. The only exception is the Zircon, which the Russians haven’t used in appreciable numbers to objectively analyze. Heck no one even knows how the Zircon looks like, even though most people think it’s based off the Oniks.

3M22 Zircon: Debunking Misconceptions

There has been a lot of talk about the Russian Zircon/Tsirkon missile recently, particularly in light of strikes on Kiev in late March that were said to have used it.

simplicius76.substack.com

You haven't provided any source indicating that the Oniks missile has been successfully intercepted. On the other hand, I have cited two articles confirming that Ukrainian air defense systems failed to intercept it due to its advanced flight trajectory. The BrahMos missile remains a formidable threat to our adversaries. Consider the Mian Channu incident, where a dummy BrahMos missile penetrated 124 km into Pakistan, revealing the deficiencies in Pakistan's Chinese-origin air defense system, which relies on outdated semi-active radar guidance that is ineffective against modern cruise missiles. Furthermore, conflating BrahMos with Brahmins indicates not only your frustration but also ignorance towards the Hindu religion. This demonstrates a lack of understanding and an emotional response rather than a factual argument. If you cannot contribute constructively to the discussion, it may be best to step away from the thread.

Former Ukrainian Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ihnat explained why it is difficult for Ukrainian air defences to shoot down the Oniks missiles that Russia used to attack Odesa and Mykolaiv. According to him, these missiles fly at high speed and low altitude, making them difficult to detect and shoot down.

“Oniks missiles are designed to destroy boats and ships, they fly at Mach 2.6. That’s over 3000 km/h, so the speed is high. When on the march, it can climb high to save fuel, and when it hits the target, it can actually fly 10-15 metres above the water to destroy the ship,”

– said the serviceman.

“This makes it very difficult for our radars to capture them. The Oniks system is invisible to radar stations because it uses technologies that reduce radio signal reflection (STELS). Therefore, the Oniks missile is more difficult to intercept than the subsonic Kalibr, and it is cheaper to produce than Russia’s new Zircon and Kinzhal hypersonic missiles.

Zircon and Oniks missiles: why they are difficult to shoot down - Ukrainian Komersant

It is likely that during the shelling of Kyiv on the morning of 25 March, Russia used Zircon or Oniks missiles, which are not always shot down by the Ukrainian air defence system. Komersant ukrainskyi looked at what these missiles are and how to deal with them. Russian Zircon and Oniks missiles...

www.komersant.info

Nevertheless, attempts to intercept two Oniks anti-ship missiles were unsuccessful.

Ukraine Shot Down 91% of the Kalibr Missiles and All the Shahed Drones, But the Issue with Oniks Missiles Remains | Defense Express

The Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to neutralize 11 Kalibr cruise missiles and 19 Shahed-136/131 UAVs

en.defence-ua.com

 

[Falcon26]

You haven't provided any source indicating that the Oniks missile has been successfully intercepted. On the other hand, I have cited two articles confirming that Ukrainian air defense systems failed to intercept it due to its advanced flight trajectory. The BrahMos missile remains a formidable threat to our adversaries. Consider the Mian Channu incident, where a dummy BrahMos missile penetrated 124 km into Pakistan, revealing the deficiencies in Pakistan's Chinese-origin air defense system, which relies on outdated semi-active radar guidance that is ineffective against modern cruise missiles. Furthermore, conflating BrahMos with Brahmins indicates your frustration towards the Hindu religion. This demonstrates a lack of understanding and an emotional response rather than a factual argument. If you cannot contribute constructively to the discussion, it may be best to step away from the thread.

Former Ukrainian Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ihnat explained why it is difficult for Ukrainian air defences to shoot down the Oniks missiles that Russia used to attack Odesa and Mykolaiv. According to him, these missiles fly at high speed and low altitude, making them difficult to detect and shoot down.


– said the serviceman.

“This makes it very difficult for our radars to capture them. The Oniks system is invisible to radar stations because it uses technologies that reduce radio signal reflection (STELS). Therefore, the Oniks missile is more difficult to intercept than the subsonic Kalibr, and it is cheaper to produce than Russia’s new Zircon and Kinzhal hypersonic missiles.

Zircon and Oniks missiles: why they are difficult to shoot down - Ukrainian Komersant

It is likely that during the shelling of Kyiv on the morning of 25 March, Russia used Zircon or Oniks missiles, which are not always shot down by the Ukrainian air defence system. Komersant ukrainskyi looked at what these missiles are and how to deal with them. Russian Zircon and Oniks missiles...

www.komersant.info

Nevertheless, attempts to intercept two Oniks anti-ship missiles were unsuccessful.

Ukraine Shot Down 91% of the Kalibr Missiles and All the Shahed Drones, But the Issue with Oniks Missiles Remains | Defense Express

The Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to neutralize 11 Kalibr cruise missiles and 19 Shahed-136/131 UAVs

en.defence-ua.com

You’re using fake unsubstantiated websites to make your point. No point in arguing with you. Continue to live in your delusions.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Good range of a powerful missile.

India tested Russian made sea attack missile with extended range as ground attack non-nuclear weapon.

 

[drkrn86]

First of all, stop replying to the same messages multiple times in different posts. Organize your response in 1 post. It makes it difficult to follow your argument when you divide your response to multiple different posts.

Secondly, the first Patriot missile to be destroyed by the Russians happened couple months, a full two years after the war has begun. This should tell you everything you need to know about the effectiveness of the Russian missiles.

Thirdly, obviously Ukraine won’t stop each and every missile launched by the Russians. The patriot systems and the Ukrainians have to prioritize what missiles to intercept as to preserve their stocks.

As we saw, during Iran’s missile and drone salvo launch few weeks ago, the saturation levels will mean some will inevitably get away despite best attempts to stop them. This is the reality of air defense systems.

A Russian Drone Spotted A Ukrainian Patriot Air-Defense Crew Convoying Near The Front Line. Soon, A Russian Hypersonic Missile Streaked Down.

A Russian drone operator’s persistence paid off when they located a Ukrainian convoy including, it seems, two truck-mounted quad-launchers for a Patriot missile battery.

www.forbes.com

The Oniks and all the other Russian missiles have been shot down. My point was to emphasize that there’s nothing uniquely special and which makes the oniks and their derivative the Brahmis invincible, as you and other Indians routinely claim. You’re falling for a marketing gimmick, in fact, deliberately to over-exaggerate the capabilities of the Brahmins & the Onika they are based off. Shooting down the Oniks have been a routine business in Ukraine. The only exception is the Zircon, which the Russians haven’t used in appreciable numbers to objectively analyze. Heck no one even knows how the Zircon looks like, even though most people think it’s based off the Oniks.

3M22 Zircon: Debunking Misconceptions

There has been a lot of talk about the Russian Zircon/Tsirkon missile recently, particularly in light of strikes on Kiev in late March that were said to have used it.

simplicius76.substack.com

Patriots were supplied after start of the war and may be around March last year. It was successfully targeted by may.
Second, we don't know how many batteries were in service with Ukraine. So can't say what percentage of them are lost.
Third, a missile interception is never one on one show. you need a well established network and environment like Intel, satellites radars etc. With Ukraine enjoying support of many countries especially the USA which has one of the best electronic warfare and interception systems, things were in Ukraines favour.
Four, during attack on Israel by iran, the majority of interceptions were done by USA and it's allies rather than Israel and it's Iron dome.
Yes, you are technically correct in claiming Brahmos and Oniks missiles can be intercepted for a power like USA. They actually have become old now.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

You're speaking as if this is my personal claim, but it's actually based on the company's thorough testing of this particular flight profile. We rigorously tested it and achieved this capability back in 2013.

Lol you don't know the real physics about maneuverability, as speed increases agility/maneuverability decreases, on the SR-71 which had same top speed or better it takes hundreds of miles to take 180° turns, read somewhere on internet, and also Mig31 has same top speed of Mach 2.8 like BRAHMOUSE but it have very limited maneuverability/agility of only 5G at max

So your company just doing marketing stunts and nothing more, if your BRAHMOUSE is that agile and maneuverable than why most of world navies ordering your out this universe BRAHMOUSE?lol

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

This image demonstrates the sheer kinetic power of a dummy BrahMos missile, which has penetrated the ship's hull without the aid of a warhead. The left side of the image highlights the impact damage and resulting hole, emphasizing the missile's destructive potential. When equipped with a full warhead and launched in salvo mode, the BrahMos missile's capability would be exponentially more devastating.
View attachment 43440

So what is special about it? You're boosting nonsense ego every time and everyday, presume that your BRAHMOUSE is some kind of special weapon that world sees as a biggest threat for its naval ships but opposite is true, your BRAHMOUSE is just the ordinary supersonic Missile with supersonic speed , just like in cold war soviet union developed so many supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles to target US carrier battle groups

 

[drkrn86]

Lol you don't know the real physics about maneuverability, as speed increases agility/maneuverability decreases, on the SR-71 which had same top speed or better it takes hundreds of miles to take 180° turns, read somewhere on internet, and also Mig31 has same top speed of Mach 2.8 like BRAHMOUSE but it have very limited maneuverability/agility of only 5G at max

So your company just doing marketing stunts and nothing more, if your BRAHMOUSE is that agile and maneuverable than why most of world navies ordering your out this universe BRAHMOUSE?lol

Wow!
You are comparing a Human machine interface with a missile.
A human can't tolerate more than 9G for sustained periods. No limitations with a missile.

Agility reduces with increased speed, agreed. But that's the whole point. A perfect combo of high speed with (variable) agility reduces the probability of interception.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Wow!
You are comparing a Human machine interface with a missile.
A human can't tolerate more than 9G for sustained periods. No limitations with a missile.

Agility reduces with increased speed, agreed. But that's the whole point. A perfect combo of high speed with (variable) agility reduces the probability of interception.

Physics remains same for both manned and for unmanned platforms, I don't know if you guys (Indians) can develop INDIAN PHYSICS to defy REAL PHYSICS

 

[Sharma Ji]

Physics remains same for both manned and for unmanned platforms, I don't know if you guys (Indians) can develop INDIAN PHYSICS to defy REAL PHYSICS

Re-read that post again, genius. A human will pass out at sustained high Gs.. a missile, aircraft or a machine can take a LOT more before it is structurally compromised.