Aftermath of the Iran-US war and its effects on proximities

[RescueRanger]

Who would hypothetically Pakistanis back in Iran if the state collapsed into chaos and factional fighting. I wonder if GCHQ have drawn up any plans for this

This is a very difficult question as you know Pakistan and the IRGC have had a complex relationship in the past. The other options don't look so rosy either, but this is not for us to theory craft at this point - Iran is still standing and the current government is in power.

 

[Goenitz]

Pakistan should learn from iranian mistakes. Update, plan, strategize, being nuclear is not enough. Posturing will deter any greater this greater that dreams and Armageddon hopers. Soon this will be in our neighborhood, hypocrite, soul selling enemies on three sides.

1. New colonisation: Sanctions on countries, personnel and therefore weaken the country economically and politically.
2. Promote different faultlines.
3. Then pressurise using UN, WHO, HRW, etc more when they conform.

A similar thing happened to Gorbachev, Yeltsin, etc.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I think we need one of each of these, adjusted to our contextual needs. Our current infrastructure is built for the needs that existed around the 1990s or so, times have evolved. Modern warfare means modern infrastructure (and cool aesthetics)


Turkey's "Pentagon"



Beijing underground military city, 10x the size of Pentagon

Satellite images show 'Beijing Military City,' the secretive command center China is building. It may be the world's largest.

China is secretly building a massive military command center southwest of Beijing. The 1,500-acre construction site is expected to dwarf the Pentagon.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Ibbi32]

I think we need one of each of these, adjusted to our contextual needs. Our current infrastructure is built for the needs that existed around the 1990s or so, times have evolved. Modern warfare means modern infrastructure (and cool aesthetics)


Turkey's "Pentagon"



Beijing underground military city, 10x the size of Pentagon

View attachment 184652

Satellite images show 'Beijing Military City,' the secretive command center China is building. It may be the world's largest.

China is secretly building a massive military command center southwest of Beijing. The 1,500-acre construction site is expected to dwarf the Pentagon.

www.businessinsider.com

I think war in iran has taught us that fortified structures are still incredibly important and if built with planning cannot completely be bypassed. I will admit i always mocked these large scale projects as a waste of time and money but Pakistan should definitely invest in fortified command and control nodes in mountains and to a limited scale emulate iranian missile cities with PARFC to increase detterence. However this all depends on cost and unlike china and iran weak state cant easily afford or coordinate massive infrastructure projects

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I think war in iran has taught us that fortified structures are still incredibly important and if built with planning cannot completely be bypassed. I will admit i always mocked these large scale projects as a waste of time and money but Pakistan should definitely invest in fortified command and control nodes in mountains and to a limited scale emulate iranian missile cities with PARFC to increase detterence. However this all depends on cost and unlike china and iran weak state cant easily afford or coordinate massive infrastructure projects

Bang on assessment. Our lack of funds is a major problem.

An air force is absolutely critical for DCA, OCA, CAS and interdiction, but then for really long-ranged strikes we need a decent stockpile of missiles too because our air force can't reliably extend that far. Also it's a fall back in the event the air force is overwhelmed in other tasks, or god forbid destroyed. This makes the underground missile cities attractive as a dual strategy alongside a powerful air force.

But the amount of money needed to invest in both simultaneously is huge.

Also the underground HQ on a smaller scale like the Chinese one can prevent Iran-style decapitation strikes that totally disrupt/eliminate your C&C structure.

 

[T80UD]

To some extent we already have it, I believe most CC centers on PAF bases are already underground. I am sure the same is probably true for GHQ

 

[hasssanali8998]

emulate iranian missile cities with PARFC to increase detterence.

if we want PARFC to be any serious threat we have to do this , it has to be built on the assumption that PAF and Pak IADS will fail .look at how well iranian missiles cities are

 

[Rational Philosopher]

To some extent we already have it, I believe most CC centers on PAF bases are already underground. I am sure the same is probably true for GHQ

Yeah they are sporadic small centres though I believe, not large co-ordinated bases where several services gather

 

[hasssanali8998]

Yeah they are sporadic small centres though I believe, not large co-ordinated bases where several services gather

i doubt they dont exist specially when we face a nuclear threat . probably just classified

 

[Ibbi32]

Bang on assessment. Our lack of funds is a major problem.

An air force is absolutely critical DCA, OCA, CAS and interdiction, but then for really long-ranged strikes we need a decent stockpile of missiles too because our air force can't reliably extend that far. Also it's a fall back in the event the air force is overwhelmed in other tasks, or god forbid destroyed. This makes the underground missile cities attractive as a dual strategy alongside a powerful air force.

But the amount of money needed to invest in both simultaneously is huge.

Also the underground base can on a smaller scale like the Chinese one can prevent Iran-style decapitation strikes that totally disrupt/eliminate your C&C structure.

I think if we are to use this strategy in actuality there are 3 main ways to do it.

1) centralised GHQ c&c facility that is large enough to function as coordinated headquarters for command and control and controls all levels of escalation with triservice strateic command coordination. Can be built close to islamabad in margalla hills and must be able to withstand nuclear strike
2) structures to help protect Pakistans existing means of deterrence. Repurpose old nuclear storage sites in kirana hills to store aircraft and build deep storage sites for ASFC rockets and veichles
3) proliferated hardened bases and structures for ARFC to create another secure means of deterrence similar to IRGC missile cities but smaller in scale, not necessarily underground and proliferated across hundreds of sites across country.

From 1 to 3 in order of priority as i see it

 

[Rational Philosopher]

if we want PARFC to be any serious threat we have to do this , it has to be built on the assumption that PAF and Pak IADS will fail .look at how well iranian missiles cities are

100%.

The issue is the funding primarily I guess but there would be major benefits.

1. Release the burden on a small-sized PAF overwhelmed in other tasks (DCA, OCA, etc)

2. Reliably be able to strike long-distance targets that can't be reached by PAF — deep inside India or elsewhere (you get the gist)

3. Provide a fallback in the event PAF is wiped out to sustain an offensive capacity.

These 3 are serious major vulnerabilities that this could at least contribute to relieving.

Rocket Force with a couple missile silo cities would be amazing but the pockets say no

 

[Ibbi32]

if we want PARFC to be any serious threat we have to do this , it has to be built on the assumption that PAF and Pak IADS will fail .look at how well iranian missiles cities are

Pakistan cannot completely fall for this missile city strategy however. Pakistani war strategy is built on nato war theory that assumes relative air superiority and assuming the paf wiil be unable to help completely throws away the entire conventional military doctrine. ARFC can exist as another means of deterrence but can never be allowed to challenge Paf in importance

 

[hasssanali8998]

The issue is the funding primarily I guess but there would be major benefits.

dont have to do it in a year do it slowly slowly , its too important to be ignored . these can also be used to house our nukes and strategic missiles .

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Pakistan cannot completely fall for this missile city strategy however. Pakistani war strategy is built on nato war theory that assumes relative air superiority and assuming the paf wiil be unable to help completely throws away the entire conventional military doctrine. ARFC can exist as another means of deterrence but can never be allowed to challenge Paf in importance

100% correct Ibby, no replacenent for a powerful air force, missile silos should ideally serve as a parallel strength to make up for our weaknesses like long-ranged strikes, smaller size of air force, and last fall back

Iran is a good example of this

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Thread kind of went off-track with the missile silos discussion but I don't think a thread on the Rocket Force Command even exists

This was meant to be for really large cross-services HQs reinforced underground to prevent decapitation strikes like in Iran