Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

There was no problem getting licenses for local production of 6TD series, Ukraine is still offering that, it does not make economic sense for Pakistan to spend all the money required on R&D, supply chain, metallurgy, machinery etc that would enable it to produce engines locally because the volume of production is so small. That’s why PA didn’t get TOT for VT4 powertrain either despite Chinas insistence, it would raise per-tank cost by 30-35% as opposed to importing the engines directly from China. I’ve butted heads with HIT enough times over this already and that’s their answer, which in a sense is valid too, as much as I’d like them to bite the bullet and set up local engineer production capabilities, they have a valid point when they say that such capabilities must start from commercial automakers where production volume is higher and trickle down to HIT instead of the other way around
Alas, maybe when we have enough money and vision where that increase is justified... It is a critical industry that needs to be established at the earliest... It's been too long since HIT has been producing licensed products with critical tech outsourced..
 
Why would commercial enterprises take this pill?

Are these engines used in other vehicles as well?

If not, then the sole customer would be PA, and we are back again at the same problem, re production volumes, no?
No commercial entity is going to design a 1200 hp engine except heavy machinery producers such as diggers, large earth movers, tractors etc.
There are currently zero assembly lines of this equipment let alone a manufacturer... HIT can start with a licensed tank engine and rework it for commercial machinery.. other way around is not happening.
 
state owned

There is need to identify critical national security/prosperity prospects. This is the single connecting thread separating those who made it and those who couldn't...
There are multiple body makers for trucks and buses... the state can standardize tooling... such as ATSM, SAE, ISO etc...
Taking it full circle by institutional research and industrial production for both domestic and potential foreign consumption. That is the only way to satisfy niche projects with demanding specs.
One of the posters posited a key insight to meaningfully domesticate the production cycle by having the engineers and project managers collaborate in China with existing lines and slowly equipping and moving them to Pakistan thereby reducing huge upfront costs in R&D, training and infrastructure.
 
Just look at this

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

RIP,
Typical noobs
if they had been playing warthunder they would know that you only carry 10 rounds of APFSDS and 5 rounds of HE... Then the penetrator would simply pass through the tank without harming the crew... Stallinium would have taken care of rest.
 
RIP,
Typical noobs
if they had been playing warthunder they would know that you only carry 10 rounds of APFSDS and 5 rounds of HE... Then the penetrator would simply pass through the tank without harming the crew... Stallinium would have taken care of rest.
What can they do,the design of the autoloader is problematic. In comparison,check out the autoloader in the French Leclerc:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


leclerc-xlr-image07.jpg
 
What can they do,the design of the autoloader is problematic. In comparison,check out the autoloader in the French Leclerc:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


View attachment 170783

I've always liked the leclerc style autoloaders... It's not that the Russians didn't realize the problem, either they didn't have the money or were worried about the silhouette being too high
T-80UM2 or black eagle being one of my favorite tanks.
That being said I don't think tanks can carry on with the 3 man crews anyways, only being possible with a lot of AI involvement in situational awareness... I believe there's just too much to do in a tank for 3 people in the evolving battlefield...
Either the tank gets back a crewman or a new heavy assault vehicle must be included in platoon or company level... The inclusion of drones will force nations to choose their own styles,
Either surveillance or loitering munitions drones to be paired with tanks...
 

Attachments

  • 11b642c28d6e8edf.jpg
    11b642c28d6e8edf.jpg
    176.4 KB · Views: 7
  • Object_640.webp
    Object_640.webp
    44.4 KB · Views: 7
I've always liked the leclerc style autoloaders... It's not that the Russians didn't realize the problem, either they didn't have the money or were worried about the silhouette being too high
T-80UM2 or black eagle being one of my favorite tanks.
That being said I don't think tanks can carry on with the 3 man crews anyways, only being possible with a lot of AI involvement in situational awareness... I believe there's just too much to do in a tank for 3 people in the evolving battlefield...
Either the tank gets back a crewman or a new heavy assault vehicle must be included in platoon or company level... The inclusion of drones will force nations to choose their own styles,
Either surveillance or loitering munitions drones to be paired with tanks...
Best example of new assault vehicles being the new chinese tank and ifv.. the ifv especially being not that good a transport but a scout + support vehicle.
 

Attachments

  • new-chinese-ifv-possibly-similar-hull-as-the-new-tank-v0-a5nagbgcibjf1.jpeg
    new-chinese-ifv-possibly-similar-hull-as-the-new-tank-v0-a5nagbgcibjf1.jpeg
    183.1 KB · Views: 3
  • article_68a1eeb92ea546_40971575.jpeg
    article_68a1eeb92ea546_40971575.jpeg
    77.7 KB · Views: 3
I've always liked the leclerc style autoloaders... It's not that the Russians didn't realize the problem, either they didn't have the money or were worried about the silhouette being too high
T-80UM2 or black eagle being one of my favorite tanks.
That being said I don't think tanks can carry on with the 3 man crews anyways, only being possible with a lot of AI involvement in situational awareness... I believe there's just too much to do in a tank for 3 people in the evolving battlefield...
Either the tank gets back a crewman or a new heavy assault vehicle must be included in platoon or company level... The inclusion of drones will force nations to choose their own styles,
Either surveillance or loitering munitions drones to be paired with tanks...
Too bad the Black Eagle project didn't continue!

By the way,I mentioned the Hellenic Army trials for a new tank,I forgot to mention what we actually bought in the end. The Leopard 2A5 came out with great results during the trials,
I remember reading somewhere that the British delegation was very,uncooperative or something like that. Which is weird,when you're trying to do everything to promote your tank and sell it(the Challenger 2E).

So anyway,after a few years we ordered the Leopard 2A6,specifically a slightly modified version,the Leopard 2A6 HEL and some second-hand Leopard 2A4s. Germans gave us some extra Leopard 1A5s if I remember correctly.

This is the inventory


Screenshot 2026-01-08 at 13-53-22 List of equipment of the Hellenic Army - Wikipedia.png
 
Anyone know current numbers of haiders in inventory and production rate
 
Thai VT-4 edit is here..
Enjoyable watch.
VT-4s mobility on display as well... Understandable why P.A chose it over others..
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
PA definitely have 175 for sure, 425 are under production with max 100 produced per year rate. so if you ask me the max number could be 275 as of Q1 2026.

I heard a while back haider production had slowed/halted due to lack of funds and proper indigenousiation of components . Was this true and has it been fixed?
 
PA definitely have 175 for sure, 425 are under production with max 100 produced per year rate. so if you ask me the max number could be 275 as of Q1 2026.
Definitely not.

I heard a while back haider production had slowed/halted due to lack of funds and proper indigenousiation of components . Was this true and has it been fixed?
This @studsmart.
 
Definitely not.


This @studsmart.
HIT has been a serious waste of resources since its inception. It could not produce ONE indigenous product while eating a huge chunk of the defense budget. Why has it been such a failure is anybody's guess.
And why has the government been so lenient to these state-owned loss making conglomerates? I guess we all know the reason but nobody wants to name and blame them openly.
 
HIT has been a serious waste of resources since its inception. It could not produce ONE indigenous product while eating a huge chunk of the defense budget. Why has it been such a failure is anybody's guess.
And why has the government been so lenient to these state-owned loss making conglomerates? I guess we all know the reason but nobody wants to name and blame them openly.
HIT has actually been among the better ones in that it's done a good job at indigenizing upstream inputs as much as possible.

It'll be worth seeing, but I think of all of Pakistan's SOEs, HIT and POF are the likeliest to start opening to private investment, esp for any unused or underused capacity that they're holding.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Country Watch Latest

Latest Posts

Back
Top