Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[Ak01]

Please grow up and come out of your bubble of delusions and dreams.

take your own advice Zarvan, for people far more familiar with the project and the details are telling you the bitter truth, some of us do have more first hand experience than just internet circlejerk.

 

[Tank131]

NOW that's how a sensible person should talk.unlike others.but the main thing is what i had said is true.you just describe it briefly.and it is really not good for Pakistan to rely heavily on chinese.and when it comes to weapon integration, PAC can't even integrate weapons on jf-17 without chinese help.and yes.it is true.Pakistan needs to her young educated people to part of her defence industry, should not rely on only defence personal

 

[ziaulislam]

Yes, You are right we should put a peernis Dam there ......

Why a dam?
Dams should be built on rivers

 

[krash]

Cope cages do work.....sometimes.

99% of the time they fail, but they do work 1% of the time.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

60 of JF-17 parts are now produced in Pakistan and most parts of Haider Tanks are also being produced in Pakistan. The weapon systems which we get from China we don't just assemble them. When we say TOT from Turkey and China that means TOT. We produce most parts.

As for TOT from Turkey, these tanks need to be fitted with AKKOR active protection systems, resident armed min-drones as AI-controlled scouts to find and kill the enemies hiding with ATGMs, and guns (coupled with in-situ EW/AD systems) firing ATOM 35mm smart fragmenting rounds to take care of the enermy loitering munitions or drones....

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[razgriz19]

So - it seems like HAIDER is basically a local version of VT4 ?!

It is VT4. Just being assembled at HIT

 

[uucc001]

Did we opt for 1500hp engine in the VT-4? I am wondering if they had the engine changed or not. Thanks , anyone.

A 1500 HP engine will not last as long as a 1200 HP engine. This is a different tuning of the same engine.

 

[uucc001]

First introduce, then gradually localize. This is nothing to dispute. What needs to be debated is the speed of localization. China did the same thing in the 1980s.

 

[Oscar]

take your own advice Zarvan, for people far more familiar with the project and the details are telling you the bitter truth, some of us do have more first hand experience than just internet circlejerk.

That doesn’t mean a tank wasn’t manufactured (most recent batches) in terms of the AK even if with imported parts. That’s what the comic could was busy disputing among generally dismissing anything Pakistani.

 

[شَاھِین شَاہِ لَولَاک]

ہتھیاروں کے نام تو صحابہ کرام والے رکھ لیے لیکن صحابہ کرام والی دینی غیرت و حمیت کہاں سے لائیں گے

 

[That_Guy]

It is VT4. Just being assembled at HIT

It is the VT4, but it's being manufactured, not assembled.

 

[Lion]

Sometimes that could be the operational use case depending upon what is required. In many cases it is possible that the turret ones are either less prone to environmental damage due to where they are or they are a bit more of a headache to take off and put on.

ERAs have weight too -

It’s more likely that the turret ERA is not removed because it’s not inherently harmful to the crew and other infantry around the tank. Meanwhile the ones on the Hull are often stepped on or could be damaged in an accident. Though ERA is very inert and doesn’t go off even to small arms fire, it’s better not to take a risk and keep it on, it is an explosive after all.

Secondly, ERA has limited shelf life, and using it reduces said shelf life, that’s apart from the added weight and complexity of keeping it on when not in a conflict.

Thirdly, another reason we often see ERA on AKs turret but not on the hull is because sometimes the plates on the turret aren’t ERA at all, they are also often extra composite plates that look like ERA, you can see the difference in some close up images.


Lastly, the way ERA is mounted on older Al-Khalid (and by extension Type 85) is different than how it’s mounted on AK-1 and VT4. On the older models, there is a large metal plate to which ERA is mounted and then that plate is mounted to the hull, you can take off the entire plate of ERA as required rather quickly.

In the newer models however, ERA is directly mounted to the Hull using mounting points, these can be seen (or not seen) in images of AK-1 and AK without ERA.

All that being said, yes, if a conflict was to start, ERA would be quick to go on, including ERA on the sides, PA does indeed use Side ERA on AK, AZ and VT4, it’s not hard to do and is not needed during peacetime, but like the field modifications we saw in WoT, this would be one of the first thing to go on tanks (if needed) during a conflict.

 

[Lion]

Seems like no GL-5 yet but hopefully some upgrade program in future may include equipping it with GL-5.

Cost is a major factor, though not likely to succeed, they are working on local APS systems to see what they can indigenize to reduce costs. Adding a hard kill APS like GL5 (or the new GL6 which PA would prefer) adds significant cost to a tank, PA would rather buy more tanks to replace older types first and then add APS.

Keep in mind APS are of multiple types, VT4 without GL6/5 already has passive APS.

 

[Lion]

"A nice comparison of turrets between Indian Army’s T-90S Bhishma and Chinese VT-4 MBT.

The VT-4 is decked without the sensors for better accuracy, survivability, and situation awareness while T-90S has very little or none."

View attachment 24789


"The Indian Army sighed contract to modify 957 T-90 with thermal sight for commander in early 2022.

No news yet about the progress."

Indian T90S has gunners thermals, same ones as in base model AK. No commanders thermals or even commanders panoramic sight (which AK and VT4 both have).

VT4 even without GL5/GL6 hard kill APS has passive APS like LWRs. It has Muzzle reference systems, auto bore sight system, 360 degree cameras and much more. No tank in the subcontinent has the kind of sensor array VT4 does, AK1 is a rather distant second, though this is going to be improved with future AK upgrades to bring it closer to VT4. That is followed by base model AK and then T90S (which has really the same things as our T80UDs).

 

[Lion]

AK was based off Type-90II with the different powerpack and some Pakistani specific mods but started life fairly similar to the Haider. Eventually more and more Pakistan specific/ built requirements incl electronics(autoloader/ electrical systems/battle management system) were added so it’s more Pakistani than it began.

So yes, you are correct where Haider is pretty much license assembly of VT-4 with the small modifications to radio and local IBMS(not confirmed although it would be weird not to) and ensuring compatibility with local ammo.

But, that doesn’t mean eventually for cost cutting and local industry/commission purposes components can be manufactured in Pakistan and the Haider in 5 years would be more Pakistani than it is today.

Local Radios, local IBMS, local gun barrels, local drivers night sight. The list is longer than it may seem, but still pretty short, you’re right otherwise though, this will change over the tanks lifetime considerably. I fully expect the Haider to be more localized eventually than the AK ever was.