PakFactor
Elite Member
The Israelis are also using cope cages, so I guess there is some benefit to it from top attack until a far better solution is found.
Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]
- Thread starter CSAW
- Start date
The Israelis are also using cope cages, so I guess there is some benefit to it from top attack until a far better solution is found.
Completely agree, these are just white elephants which will serve no purpose and add no particular value.We all know parts are going to be manufactured in China if not the whole tank itself.
If they decide to make it mostly in-home they're probably looking at a 5+ year schedule before there are enough of these in numbers that matter.
And by that time these Mammoths will truly be obsolete.
I got some eyes on potential wars within the next 5-10 years. Even the ones going on right now are showing signs of how much of a utter waste tanks are unless there's proper air dominance.
UAV's can easily scout tanks and direct Artillery fire as seen in Ukraine. A Arty round is cheaper than a modern ATGM. India might use 10-50 of them before even hitting a Pakistani tank but it'll be worth the effort if they ever go that route or are clever enough to do so.
In a Indo-Pak scenario, there are enough ATGM's (among other weaponry) on both sides to pulverize such tanks 10x over.
Truly shows the thinking capability of these "war planners". But then again....this tank is for photo shoots, not actual War.
Pakistan will cave in to economic, political and social pressure long before it ever declares war on anyone that isn't a civilian or a sandal wearing Jihadist.
That_Guy
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Cope cages do work.....sometimes.
99% of the time they fail, but they do work 1% of the time.
Oscar
Moderator
AK was based off Type-90II with the different powerpack and some Pakistani specific mods but started life fairly similar to the Haider. Eventually more and more Pakistan specific/ built requirements incl electronics(autoloader/ electrical systems/battle management system) were added so it’s more Pakistani than it began.
So yes, you are correct where Haider is pretty much license assembly of VT-4 with the small modifications to radio and local IBMS(not confirmed although it would be weird not to) and ensuring compatibility with local ammo.
But, that doesn’t mean eventually for cost cutting and local industry/commission purposes components can be manufactured in Pakistan and the Haider in 5 years would be more Pakistani than it is today.
amuqeetk
Registered Member
but why didnt we produce enough alkhalid 2 tanks in the first place ? can you shed light on that please.
PakFactor
Elite Member
That's why you cope 99% of the time, hoping you're part of that 1%. Lol
Hareeb
Trusted Member
After watching tanks getting hit by drones in Ukarine-Russia war, I have a question: why do tanks not have some kind of safety net/railings (8-10 feet away from the main body of tank) around them so the RPGs/missiles first hit the safety net and burst before hitting the main body of the tank?
Muji.Iqbal
Trusted Member
Are these to replace VT-4s?HIT unveiled HAIDER Tank, indigenously manufactured with NORINCO China and Pakistan
General Syed Asim Munir, NI (M), Chief of Army Staff (COAS), visited Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) as chief guest at the rollout ceremony of HAIDER tank (Pilot Project).
The ceremony was attended by Ambassador of the Peoples Republic of China, key officials of Chinese state company NORINCO, high officials of Government of Pakistan & Pakistan Army, and various military and civilian officials of HIT. During the ceremony, HIT unveiled its new Tank HAIDER, which has been indigenously manufactured through collaboration with NORINCO China and various industries of Pakistan.
HAIDER embodies cutting-edge technology and impressive capability in the domain of tank warfare having remarkable firepower, protection and manoeuvre characteristics. Crafted with state-of-the-art advanced technologies, HAIDER stands as a testament to Pakistani defence industry’s relentless pursuit of excellence in defence innovation.
COAS was briefed in detail about the technical capabilities of the HAIDER tank and the progress being made in achieving indigenization in arms and armament.
COAS also visited other manufacturing facilities within the Heavy Industrial Complex and appreciated the commitment of the officers and workforce in successful achievement of another technological milestone.
Earlier on arrival, COAS was received by Chairman HIT.View attachment 23945View attachment 23946
Muji.Iqbal
Trusted Member
Those who are critisizing China, at least China is bringing development to Pakistan and Pakistanis.
What has the West done other than "Global War on Terrorism." or rather "Global war of Terrorism."
What has the West done other than "Global War on Terrorism." or rather "Global war of Terrorism."
Oscar
Moderator
In my opinion they could not get the progress and sup chain on it stabilized but more so realized that the VT-4 has already incorporated everything they wanted to do for AK-2 so why throw money on climbing the same flights of stairs when you can take an escalator to it?
It all goes back to Pakistan’s R&D mantra as a broke nation - “Only build when you have exhausted all other avenues to buy cheap - or if you don’t want secrets leaked”
To
FuturePAF
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Considering what has been leaked recently about the Type 99 tank, the performance is exceptional. The speed of the Sabot round 100m/s faster than the M1 Abrams rounds and penetration of 960 mm of RHA at 1000 meters.
Speaking of importing foreign tech instead of reinventing the wheel, what do you think of an upgrade of some of the Al-Zarrar Tanks with the Turkish defense industry?
The following upgrade may look strange, but it seems interesting in how to upgrade a legacy tank and deal with modern threats.
Turkish M60A3 tanks get new modular turret
Turkish defence company Roketsan has delivered the first M60A3 upgraded with the new Modular Armored Tower to the Turkish Land Forces. The M60A3 is a main battle tank (MBT) that was developed by the United States in the 1970s and 1980s. It is an upgraded version of the M60 Patton tank, which was...
www.defencetoday.com
Turkish industry is apply a lot of lessons learned from the Ukraine war on their tank fleet, why not benefit from that experience in a cost effective manner, with an upgrade package.
In war time, practically, Türkiye could supply ammo if the turret is swapped out with a Turkish 120 mm.
Oscar
Moderator
Considering what has been leaked recently about the Type 99 tank, the performance is exceptional. The speed of the Sabot round 100m/s faster than the M1 Abrams rounds and penetration of 960 mm of RHA at 1000 meters.
Speaking of importing foreign tech instead of reinventing the wheel, what do you think of an upgrade of some of the Al-Zarrar Tanks with the Turkish defense industry?
The following upgrade may look strange, but it seems interesting in how to upgrade a legacy tank and deal with modern threats.
Turkish M60A3 tanks get new modular turret
Turkish defence company Roketsan has delivered the first M60A3 upgraded with the new Modular Armored Tower to the Turkish Land Forces. The M60A3 is a main battle tank (MBT) that was developed by the United States in the 1970s and 1980s. It is an upgraded version of the M60 Patton tank, which was...
Turkish industry is apply a lot of lessons learned from the Ukraine war on their tank fleet, why not benefit from that experience in a cost effective manner, with an upgrade package.
In war time, practically, Türkiye could supply ammo if the turret is swapped out with a Turkish 120 mm.
I don’t the think Zarrars will undergo another upgrade - they are meant for the bogs when Ajeyas were the main target.. now its T-90s and with that area pretty much a combination of minefields, obstacles and extreme bunkers along with entrenchment tanks will serve more as artillery than trying any assaults without serious artillery pacification. The north is the closest I can imagine to the Russo Ukrainian conflict.
The south is where the action will be and the token T-80uds , AKs and VT-4s are needed to face a 3-1 ratio of T-90s, Ajeyas and their accompanying Arjuns.
Not to mention the numerous ATGM and loitering munitions the Indians will throw at it.
At the end, losses will be more severe for PK now even if it takes a 1:1 toll unless it’s willing to give up a LOT of territory in return for places where they can use ambushes and many many asymmetric ATGM systems to make India lose an arm and a leg for every inch onward. With that communication line so close to the border regardless - India could simply not care and claim victory but these all start approaching WMD thresholds so it’s rather moot.
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
Plus u can only make money when u import somthing.....not when u manufacture somthing inhouse
Oscar
Moderator
Fulfillment of the requirements trumps enterprise and any local production costs need to be lower than imports to make sense- the Mushaq fulfilled a requirement for a basic trainer - its use as liason to replace the L-19 was due to pocket filling.
The MP5 is a CQB weapon that should have been imported in limited numbers for the requirement - its license manufacturing and push as a field weapon when its 9mm is dead on the ground in less than 200m was to fill pockets.
How much money has HIT made selling the Al Khalid? Did HIT manufacture and sell to Bangladesh? Or Myanmar or Morocco?
Nothing to KSA or Saudi arabia so where was the money made?
Did at the least send barrels for the VT-1s sold?
Panzerkiel
Professional
The same problems being faced with other defence production organizations.
