Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[Afif]

Once again, both points about RWS and APS make little sense.

I’ve been to the border you’re talking about, it’s a standard forest environment. I do not see how not having an APS there is any advantage at all. It is always an advantage. If your position does not call for it, you simply turn it off. Yes, you can do that.

ATGMs can still be very easily deployed there, if anything it’s kind of the perfect place to set up an ambush. Besides, an APS isn’t only stopping ATGMs, the VT5 is a light tank, it can be taken out by much more portable AT weapons too, including RPGs. An APS would help there.

It’s a no brainer that tanks operate differently in different environments, deploying a tank at a strong point to hold it isn’t exactly unique to forest environments, nor is infantry taking cover around a tank. Infantry is supposed to be trained to recognize the threat of Incoming and outgoing projectiles from a tank, removing it isn’t an actual way to fix that. By that same logic, ERA is much more dangerous to infantry around a tank than an APS (which engages projectiles at a distance that would be away from infantry), should we remove that from the VT5 too? And if the tank is hit, you’re losing the crew inside and if the explosion is bad enough or if there’s infantry on the sides or front of the tank they’re getting hurt too, so how exactly is this safer for infantry in any way? If that really is the logic the army applied while buying them then I’d be worried about their planning and training.

About the RWS, yes, line of sight is limited in the jungle, so would it not help to have an RWS which is stabilized and hence more accurate, has its own magnification and WFOV sights with thermals to scan through foliage and can keep the commander safe from enemy sniper fire? The human eye is going to see Jack compared to modern optics in most environments, regardless of the FOV.
And the FOV goes to shit anyways if the commander has to use his vision blocks while remotely operating a normal Turret instead of an RWS, which he is likely to do if the tank comes under fire. Besides, the RWS can be used with the MK1 eyeball too if that’s really a problem.

Both arguments simply don’t stack up. Regardless of the usage environment.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree. VT-5 isn't fitted with ERA. In vegetation there is extra clutter that would hinder APS sensor's operability. And you don’t have to worry about BD Army's training and planning.

The fact that PLA it self doesn't use APS on its tanks yet should tell you something. Those aren't magic shield as advertised. If you look at Hamas-Israel conflict, you can see in many cases APS failed to activate in time when tanks was hit from close range. It was Merkava 4's superior armor that stopped most projectiles.

Besides, they added additional thermal sleeve and fume extractor system to VT-5's main gun. So, I don't think army was short on budget. I am sure they had their reasons.

 

[studsmart]

maybe I am wrong, but Haider tank engine supposed to be 1500 hp size?

 

[Lion]

maybe I am wrong, but Haider tank engine supposed to be 1500 hp size?

these engines are tuneable to different horsepower ratings for different kinds of fuels (they can run on multiple fuels) and also different requirements. The same engine can produce as low as 1200HP and as high as 1500HP. Currently PA has them tuned to 1200HP for higher fuel efficiency and less engine stress but this can be changed as needed. For example, Thailand also ordered VT4s which have the same engine as our Haider’s and theirs make 1300 HP just because it’s tuned to it.

 

[Sparten]

I feel there is absolute ignorance to how much of a money black hole the WoT was for Pakistani military. If the Earthquake limited to AJK culls 18 additional C/Ds and puts a mirage replacement on hold… imagine what constant deployment and kinetic ops does to PA upgrades while everyone here keep talking to no AK or Battle rifle or Z-10s and so on.

Quite. The biggest expenditure last 10 or so years has been the Western border fence. Besides the construction costs, 70 plus battalions (more than 20 brigades) had to be raised, trained and equipped to man the area. In addition a lot of armour and artillery elements had to be created, and those even if equipped with Regular PA surplus, needed to be refurbished before it could be used. Let alone the payment needed for the drone and surveillance kit.

One of the reason I really laugh at the "Jernails want Dallah" posts everytime something happens on the Western border. No what they want is to stop the haemorrhaging of money.

 

[Oscar]

Quite. The biggest expenditure last 10 or so years has been the Western border fence. Besides the construction costs, 70 plus battalions (more than 20 brigades) had to be raised, trained and equipped to man the area. In addition a lot of armour and artillery elements had to be created, and those even if equipped with Regular PA surplus, needed to be refurbished before it could be used. Let alone the payment needed for the drone and surveillance kit.

One of the reason I really laugh at the "Jernails want Dallah" posts everytime something happens on the Western border. No what they want is to stop the haemorrhaging of money.

At the end, it is a case of a stitch in time saves crores . You simply cannot have borders completely left open when you know there is a hostile force running around the area.

 

[hussain0216]

Quite. The biggest expenditure last 10 or so years has been the Western border fence. Besides the construction costs, 70 plus battalions (more than 20 brigades) had to be raised, trained and equipped to man the area. In addition a lot of armour and artillery elements had to be created, and those even if equipped with Regular PA surplus, needed to be refurbished before it could be used. Let alone the payment needed for the drone and surveillance kit.

One of the reason I really laugh at the "Jernails want Dallah" posts everytime something happens on the Western border. No what they want is to stop the haemorrhaging of money.

Afghans have never done anything good for Pakistan, yet expect us to host millions of their namak harami population across the country, let them utilize our ports, roads and still cause endless fassad

 

[Qureshi]

Afghans have never done anything good for Pakistan, yet expect us to host millions of their namak harami population across the country, let them utilize our ports, roads and still cause endless fassad

Thanks to our namak harami officials who gave them National ID & Passports for few bucks. Whole gulf is full of such Afghans holding Pakistani Passports & icing on the cake several of them involve in crimes too including drugs'.

 

[hussain0216]

Thanks to our namak harami officials who gave them National ID & Passports for few bucks. Whole gulf is full of such Afghans holding Pakistani Passports & icing on the cake several of them involve in crimes too including drugs'.

The biggest reason was those officials were from the same background and gave out these cards not just because of greed but because of ethnocentric jahilat and loyalties

We need to review all cards issues and anyone with a dodgy history or cards to be removed from Pakistan and all citizenship revoked for them a d the family

 

[Qureshi]

The biggest reason was those officials were from the same background and gave out these cards not just because of greed but because of ethnocentric jahilat and loyalties

No, dear, it was not ethnocentric; rather, it was done only for financial gain, and everyone from Peshawar to Karachi participated in this avarice.

We need to review all cards issues and anyone with a dodgy history or cards to be removed from Pakistan and all citizenship revoked for them a d the family

Its practically impossible now mainly because of intermarriages & we are in their 3rd generation.

 

[hussain0216]

No, dear, it was not ethnocentric; rather, it was done only for financial gain, and everyone from Peshawar to Karachi participated in this avarice.



Its practically impossible now mainly because of intermarriages & we are in their 3rd generation.

Sure, it was because of greed, but don't underestimate the connected family, tribal links that handed out cards to the "brothers" and family had


And we can absolutely review all cards and kick out all illegitimate non citizens, if they broke the law they are not applicable for Pakistani citizenship

Citizenship has REQUIREMENTS
Including loyalty as a main point

 

[Qureshi]

Sure, it was because of greed, but don't underestimate the connected family, tribal links that handed out cards to the "brothers" and family had


And we can absolutely review all cards and kick out all illegitimate non citizens, if they broke the law they are not applicable for Pakistani citizenship

Citizenship has REQUIREMENTS
Including loyalty as a main point

Break Law

Are you sure this thing exists in Pakistan?

What you said above, if these things implemented we are not in this filth which we are in & that not because of Afghans but by the following...

• Judiciary
• Bureaucracy
• Establishment

 

[CSAW]

1500 HP MBT Powerplant development on other side of border
Maiden test fire for Arjun MK-I A of India’s first indigenous 1500 HP engine for Main Battle Tanks at BEML Mysuru Happened Today

 

[CSAW]

 

[Awwad]

Afghans have never done anything good for Pakistan, yet expect us to host millions of their namak harami population across the country, let them utilize our ports, roads and still cause endless fassad

You hate em so much. Good and bad people are in every society. God created everyone equally. The borders all around the world are man-made. These borders are not built by God. Circumstances make one the way they act, no one is born like that.

As far as afghan refugees are concerned, it was no other than Pakistan Army (General Zia) who brought the refugees into Pakistan then invited several US congress men to visit the refugees camps. There was flow of dollars and on other hand, the military was busy establising madrassa after madrassa for producing jihadis.

Bottomline, We can never reach to a permanent solution with hatred in our minds. A prosperous neighborhood is a guarantee of a peaceful environment. Pakistan have a golden opportunity after when a pro-indian / anti-pak ashraf ghani govt is ousted. Work with taliban and earn each other trust. You going to war with them or trying to twist their arm will throw Taliban completely in alliance with TTP which would become a nightmare for Pakistan. Today, they are neutral but you are pushing them to become ally of ttp. TTP on other hand ofcourse is enemy of Pakistan and it has only one objective that is to create a war or total mistrust between Taliban & Pakistan. TTP objective is to become ally of Taliban. The establishment is exactly falling on TTP's trap.

 

[studsmart]

if Haider and vt4 same why they displayed as two different platforms ? or is it VT4P is imported from china and Haider is VT4p produced in Pakistan