Toxic
Trusted Member
It makes sense why it's the epicenter since the area borders Afghanistan with poor border enforcement.
Balochistan Terrorism Watch
- Thread starter ghazi52
- Start date
It makes sense why it's the epicenter since the area borders Afghanistan with poor border enforcement.
unconventional
Registered Member
It's a chicken and egg situation: which one comes first? Good governance/development or security?
If we say governance/development is a pre-requisite; then how will you achieve it without security?
And if you try to establish security (through targeted military operations), then you risk alienating the local Baloch population in Baloch majority districts, and fanning more separatist sentiments.
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unconventional
Registered Member
Anyone can point to all the mistakes the state has made dealing with Balochistan post 1947.
What we don't really get from anyone is a clear roadmap for how to address the issues in Balochistan.
For me personally, as long as the Baloch people are willing to stay within the federation of Pakistan, they should be able to get whatever else they are demanding.
To be extremely generous to their separatist sentiments; one can even understand their fighting military personnel/combatants. But one cannot excuse the killing of Punjabi laborers and other non-Baloch non-combatants in their province, that is simply not acceptable.
There needs to be a clear roadmap devised by the Baloch people (who want to remain with the federation of Pakistan) who want to resolve their issues. Not just complaining about everything that is wrong, but how to address the violence and development issues in Balochistan. And everyone from the Pakistani state should be on-board with this roadmap, there can be no spoilers.
As far as I can recall, there has never been a roadmap provided for what needs to done for Balochistan.
If someone from outside of Balochistan tries to do something for Balochistan; for example, with Musharraf taking out Akbar Bugti (resulting in the resurgence of the BLA and other separatist groups), or CPEC; then it is viewed by the Baloch as overreach and overstepping by the state. Hence, the roadmap needs to come from Balochistan, and implemented by all stakeholders in the nation.
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unconventional
Registered Member
There has been an outsourcing of responsibilities from the Pakistani state to corrupt Baloch sardars/elite.
These people have done nothing for their people, and fanned separatism further.
The state has neglected Balochistan, avoided uncomfortable conversations and narratives inside Balochistan; and not worked with the Baloch people to help them devise a clear roadmap for their integration into the Pakistani state.
Some people say the Pakistani military has used kid's gloves in Balochistan, especially in light of what the Indian military has done in Jammu and Kashmir. That is probably true, and yes, the Pakistani military has never deployed even close to their full military might in Balochistan (compared to for example: FATA) for the fear of stoking more separatist sentiments, but they also abdicated their responsibilities towards Balochistan because they could not handle uncomfortable conversations/narratives. Hence, they outsourced those responsibilities to corrupt Baloch sardars/elite, who have made the situation in the province worse.
The Baloch outside of Balochistan; living in Sindh, Punjab etc. are well integrated with the Pakistani state. It is not right for Punjabi laborers just trying to making a living to be gunned down in Balochistan. So the problem is not Baloch people, but specific to Balochistan and how it is governed.
Whereas the situation is opposite in India. Kashmiri Muslims in other Indian state are routinely targeted in other states for who they are. But India is a hard/security state; and has imposed security inside J&K, which gives the illusion that things are better there than in Balochistan. Pakistan has adopted a soft state approach in Balochistan, which results in less outright separatism sentiments in the local population compared to J&K, but more terrorist attacks and casualties.
These people have done nothing for their people, and fanned separatism further.
The state has neglected Balochistan, avoided uncomfortable conversations and narratives inside Balochistan; and not worked with the Baloch people to help them devise a clear roadmap for their integration into the Pakistani state.
Some people say the Pakistani military has used kid's gloves in Balochistan, especially in light of what the Indian military has done in Jammu and Kashmir. That is probably true, and yes, the Pakistani military has never deployed even close to their full military might in Balochistan (compared to for example: FATA) for the fear of stoking more separatist sentiments, but they also abdicated their responsibilities towards Balochistan because they could not handle uncomfortable conversations/narratives. Hence, they outsourced those responsibilities to corrupt Baloch sardars/elite, who have made the situation in the province worse.
The Baloch outside of Balochistan; living in Sindh, Punjab etc. are well integrated with the Pakistani state. It is not right for Punjabi laborers just trying to making a living to be gunned down in Balochistan. So the problem is not Baloch people, but specific to Balochistan and how it is governed.
Whereas the situation is opposite in India. Kashmiri Muslims in other Indian state are routinely targeted in other states for who they are. But India is a hard/security state; and has imposed security inside J&K, which gives the illusion that things are better there than in Balochistan. Pakistan has adopted a soft state approach in Balochistan, which results in less outright separatism sentiments in the local population compared to J&K, but more terrorist attacks and casualties.
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unconventional
Registered Member
I would like to know from you, as a Baloch; in your estimation, what the levels of separatism are in each of the districts in Balochistan?
Also separately, which ones have less separatism sentiments, but more of discontent with the state? I would assume most of them.
And which districts are absolute no-go areas for non-Baloch Pakistanis (basically Urdu speaking, Punjabi speakers; not Sindhis and Pashtuns)? I would really appreciate your perspective as a Baloch from Balochistan.
I am assuming you have lived at least a few years in Balochistan, or at least know family members that are there.
Same was said about Sheikh Mujeeb when he was abducted and imprisoned in Mianwali .
Expert
Registered Member
And then Mujeeb lost west Pakistan. I know you'll try to spin it in other . But still it's a fact.
hussain0216
Elite Member
Balochistan has been carried now for 80 years, same as the tribal areas
Any and every development is as a result of tax payers from other places paying for then
The sardars and elite are BALOCH, that's their leaders, their masters
If you try to remove them the same Baloch will revolt and create more chaos
It takes two hands to clap, you can't just wait for the government or state to fix these people if they do not want to fix themselves
No investment will come to backwards, violent areas with a bad reputation and we do not have endless finances to try and bring change under such a security environment
At the end of the day it's up to the tribals or the Baloch to make use of the security operations to advance themselves
They do nothing
They remain complicit
They are silent
Their is good reason why Investment is limited and people are becoming tired of the jahilat and fassad out of these areas
The Muslim world is under attack and we need to get ready for the war that is coming
But oh look we have Baloch and pashtuns to create endless fassad
hussain0216
Elite Member
Bangladesh was a thousand miles away, that is the basic reason why we couldn't enforce state will
We don't have that issue HERE
The whole point of the state and military is to take on enemies who threaten the state
We are a soft state who does nothing against ENEMIES who are openly seditious
We do nothing against human donkeys spreading ethnocentric fassad like the scum bags in ANP or PTM
We allow afghans to stay in our cities when we should be throwing them all out
We don't pursue our enemies and their propaganda across the world
And we are out own worst enemies when we make excuses for our enemies on why they should attack us
Make the lives of our enemies brutal and violent, make sure Afghanistan is dismantled, pay for our own groups to create chaos in Afghanistan,
Let the Afghans suffer
Until Pakistans enemies suffer, you will not build deterrence
Toxic
Trusted Member
And guess who is keeping those Sardars in power? The fact is you have never tried to modernize the region, no land reforms no implementing new systems.
when you allow parallel systems of governance to exist and you further give that system power then don't be surprised when people don't believe in your authority.
Police in these regions are sub Servient to these Sardars, they can get SSPs transfered with just one call.
Distant_Observer
Trusted Member
They were killing Punjabi teachers 10 years ago. If they want to become civilized then they will be need to be ready to accept being civilized. They do not understand living peacefully with joy.
They act like bandits.
They sell themselves to the highest bidder.
They prefer to be a combative over every topic.
Extremism is a way of life.
They have to fix their society, time to take responsibility and do the work.
unconventional
Registered Member
I'm sorry, but this kind of mindset will not get us anywhere with Balochistan, and will only linger on the status quo.
As a non-Baloch (non-Pashtun, non-Sindhi) Pakistani Canadian, it is sad that many or if not most of the districts inside Balochistan are no-go areas for me, that I could be assassinated if I'm even trying to visit them. All Pakistanis should be able to visit Balochistan safely without risking their lives.
VectorZero
Registered Member
Why we ended operation when there leader is still alive in Afghanistan wtf.
unconventional
Registered Member
We can beat the Baloch insurgency/terrorism into submission, but that can only be means to an end, not the end itself.
Even if we establish good control/security there (similar to India in J&K); it will give us a false hope that things are improving there.
It is very easy to for our state to use their real military might (which they haven't done in Balochistan yet) and bring down the insurgency/violence; but it is much more difficult to have those difficult conversations on uncomfortable narratives; and coming with a comprehensive strategy (through the roadmap provided by the Baloch people) to help them achieve their goals.
Even if we establish good control/security there (similar to India in J&K); it will give us a false hope that things are improving there.
It is very easy to for our state to use their real military might (which they haven't done in Balochistan yet) and bring down the insurgency/violence; but it is much more difficult to have those difficult conversations on uncomfortable narratives; and coming with a comprehensive strategy (through the roadmap provided by the Baloch people) to help them achieve their goals.
