Bangladesh Socio-Political Crisis 2024

[Nilgiri]

@LeonBlack08 @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @Bengal71 @Strider Thoughts? I found it interesting. Representing several points of views.

Will watch later and let you know my thoughts.

 

[Nilgiri]

So far, the lady (Ms. Riva Ganguly Das, former High commissioner to BD)

is kind of rehashing the people-people thing I did previously:

Regd the 90% sentiments (that dont have such time surplus for the online realm), it is very early days to crunch qualitative numbers there.....i.e their activities and impressions under a political blanket (how much they know/care and put aside or dont put aside regd that w.r.t larger overall impression of a country/people etc)..

This survey for example (given pre covid, visits from BD citizens to India was around 1.9 million per year and will rebound to that level and surpass it soon:

https://tourism.gov.in/sites/default/files/2020-04/Final%20Report%20on%20Visit%20of%20Nationals%20of%20Bangladesh%20to%20India.pdf
It was interesting to note the overall rating of facilities, host population attitude among the 3 or so sample strata (benapole, maitree rail, dum dum airport combinations etc).

It gave larger sense than say cpl instagram groups I have been following w.r.t say Dr. Shetty hospital in BLR and Bangladesh medical tourists, which again would be skewed very differently to say social media "english conversant 10% vs 10%" groupings...given basic context of the "why"/needs governing the interactions.

I also have followed from time various travel blogs/vlogs both directions too to get a sense of the person-person interactions and their perceptions/reactions etc as they travel in respective otherside host populations. Where frictions arise inevitably, but general positive sense prevails when witness to 90% bulk population that are getting through day to day life with the interesting local curiosities and geniality both ways.

At least I was reminded of it.

Doing the top down "official only" thing is not proper way to handle relations....as you are sampling in very limited way and doing knee jerk coin flips for immensely larger entities that you are excluding from the picture.

It is dereliction of fiduciary authority. Authority always has to be humble to where it has come from and is accountable to.

 

[Nilgiri]

Listening to more of it slowly, its very annoying.

Lot of the Indians are very tone deaf and/or ignorant (or worse indulgent) regarding rules/principles for thee but not for me.

If you are going to go into deep criticism of BNP and Jamat, it can only come credibly to me if you have first applied the same regarding BJP and RSS.

Otherwise it is asserting might = right....and then doing bazaar haggling over debris that has coursed out and washed back onto beach....these shiny objects of distraction away from what could have been if these objects were not broken and scattered in first place by bad thinking + bad action. i.e distraction away from good vs bad.....and rather to look at which mix of good-bad is a bigger pile able to enforce its bad.....and anyone wise sees why power very easily absorbs bad (from the ego of power) compared to the good.

I despise that intensely (the inability to coherently apply good vs bad, moral and ethical principles across the board first so you have proper credibility to argue/discuss)....as this is near 100% of how power among few keeps powerless at each others throats destructively to their detriment through time immemorial, but becoming all the more alarming now with better roads having been charted by better social contract....we are not to drink from same good well that has nourished?...because it becomes too inconvenient and challenging for the laziness+greed+ego that festers in power?

Anyway Joe will be away for a while (busy with stuff on his end) till start of next month. So I will discuss with you folks that want to in meanwhile and later he can chime in too.

 

[MNZGamerX]

What a nonsense!

No it is actually true. That is how appointment and recruitments are happening. This has already happened in the appointment of officers to the AG's office. I am a lawyer I know and I don't care whether you believe me or not. A person should be able to criticize the CG without being labeled an Awami Leaguer or RAW agent because isn't that exactly the method of the AL and RAW to silence justified criticism over the last 16 years. It is because of the intolerant attitude of the CG and its blind supporters that the country is already turning against it especially after recent incidents.

Would it be justified for those defending the CG to be labeled MOSSAD and CIA agents and enemies of Islam for what Israel and America is doing in Gaza. If not then why is it happening the other way.

 

[Fallstuff]

'Downgrade diplomatic ties with Bangladesh': Chakma leaders submit memorandum to PM Modi over killing of tribals in Chittagong Hill Tracts - Times of India

Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Well, this is a problem.

It is not a problem. This will get settled. Indians always overplay their cards. It is not the first time they are doing this. It is India who has issues with the neighbors, not the other way around.
The main issue is Hasina gave all the data to India. Something needs to be done about it.

 

[Fallstuff]

India tried to strangle Nepal, how did that work out ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I read Shashi Tharoor's book "An Era of Darkness" regarding the parliamentary democracy in India. Here, he challenged that the British system of parliamentary democracy currently utilized was never suited for Indian society. It focused more on staying in power rather than governance. He further adds that it has distorted the voting preferences of an electorate that knows which individuals it wants but not which policies to implement. This has resulted in parties that have shifting alliances of individual interests rather than mobilizing a consistent set of ideas in a collective manner. This is the reason why he always advocated for a presidential system. He concludes that the British never had any intention to impart democracy in India. And secondly, the Indians chose the parliamentary system themselves despite suggestions to implement a presidential system by a former British PM Clement Attlee at the time. This current system is responsible for many of the political ills in India, he claims.

I read this right in the run-up of August 5th and cannot help thinking just how eerily familiar the problems we are facing are considering we use the same system. Would a presidential system help mitigate any future autocracy better (if not completely) than a parliamentary one?

The problem is more complex than Shashi seems to have projected (Disclaimer: I haven't read his book, and am going by your account, that I have no reason to suppose to be distorted).
A number of anthropologists, Cohn among them, have pointed out that Indian constitutional arrangements, the resulting type of government, and the habits and social practices of Indians did not align. Without going further, it needs to be pointed out that the Presidential system is equally misaligned with Indian society. <More>

 

[Afif]

Listening to more of it slowly, its very annoying.

Lot of the Indians are very tone deaf and/or ignorant (or worse indulgent) regarding rules/principles for thee but not for me.

If you are going to go into deep criticism of BNP and Jamat, it can only come credibly to me if you have first applied the same regarding BJP and RSS.

Otherwise it is asserting might = right....and then doing bazaar haggling over debris that has coursed out and washed back onto beach....these shiny objects of distraction away from what could have been if these objects were not broken and scattered in first place by bad thinking + bad action. i.e distraction away from good vs bad.....and rather to look at which mix of good-bad is a bigger pile able to enforce its bad.....and anyone wise sees why power very easily absorbs bad (from the ego of power) compared to the good.

I despise that intensely (the inability to coherently apply good vs bad, moral and ethical principles across the board first so you have proper credibility to argue/discuss)....as this is near 100% of how power among few keeps powerless at each others throats destructively to their detriment through time immemorial, but becoming all the more alarming now with better roads having been charted by better social contract....we are not to drink from same good well that has nourished?...because it becomes too inconvenient and challenging for the laziness+greed+ego that festers in power?

Anyway Joe will be away for a while (busy with stuff on his end) till start of next month. So I will discuss with you folks that want to in meanwhile and later he can chime in too.

So, whatever criticism Indians has about BNP and Jamaat from past experiences, they have to move beyond that. By that I don't mean they need to make truce overnight, but to recognize this revolution was people's revolution outside the perimeter of traditional party politics. And the reason it happened because there is new force that has emerged with a new generation of young people.

If you can't see the past BAL, BNP and Jamaat, and continue to claim it was CIA, ISI and China, (first it was funny, now it seems more or less every Indian diplomats and think tankers except for few insinuating or explicitly saying this same thing!) and basically deny the people/this new generation of younglings the agency, everyone is gonna have a problem. Because you are failing at the grassroot to comprehend what happened. Consequently from there, it will only be reactionary polices from India based on faulty understanding. You will likely be unable to formulate sound initiatives and proactive policies.

I think professor Shahab explained that part well, Delhi (current political stablishment and the elite) doesn't seem to have the right idea of the 'people.' Otherwise, it should have had a more clear stance on BAL/Hassina's mass atrocities in July-August (esp. when it is already ousted) and shown more respect toward clearly demonstrated will and aspiration of BD people. That much doesn't require cozing up with BNP and Jamaat. Instead India stuck with sheltering a mass murber, (I hope you personally saw what happened during July-August for what it is, and there is no other way to put it about her) and the most hated person in BD while a large Portion of Indian elites (at least who are publicly talking) continue to attributes all the wrong conspiracies about this revolution. In the end of the day, all the discussions about unrests, instability in wake of revolution and the direction of the interim government still misses the main question. What was all this really about?

Up to you.