CCS clears AMCA for IAF

[MirageBlue]

But this model was posted first in August 2022! So is there a new one available or are there no changes since almost 1 1/2 years?

No external changes that we know of. However, systems design and reviews were on-going during that period when it went through PDRs and CDRs.

 

[MirageBlue]

The SPV program is what got us into this soup, in first place. Frankly its idiotic to expect Indian Private Aviation sector, to take up the challenge of working on a fifth gen fighter.

While the thought seems to be good, it was foolish practically. A sector that hasn't build even a third gen plane on its own, is expected to take up straight away fifth gen project??? Does it even make sense ??

Nearly two years were lost in this wild goose chase

It wasn't foolish at all. It was doable. See what TASL has done in JV's with LM. Or look at what level of supplier outsourcing is happening on the Tejas program. Almost the entire Tejas is now built by private suppliers and HAL assembles it alongwith parts that it manufactures.

There are other Indian private sector companies that are also involved in various avionics and electronics manufacturing. For e.g. Astra Microwave, Samtel, Tonbo, etc.

But as ACM RKS Bhadauria said there needs to be frank and honest discussions with the private sector for them to take on the financial risk associated with being a part of the SPV, rather than just taking on confirmed contracts from HAL and simply being a supplier to HAL.

 

[MirageBlue]

This is not project approval. What this means is that the Critical Design Review has been completed, all needed technologies are considered as complete and money is released for construction of prototypes. That's the 1.5 Billion for.

Turkey didn't wait for CDR to give go ahead for prototype construction because most countries don't. In India because you have a bunch of risk averse babus running our programs, they dragged this out for years.

I'm sorry that is how it works EVERYWHERE. Including at Boeing, where I myself have been a part of various CDRs with FAA Tech Reps and Boeing's senior design folks involved. Only after they cleared the design did it go for manufacture.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I'm sorry that is how it works EVERYWHERE. Including at Boeing, where I myself have been a part of various CDRs with FAA Tech Reps and Boeing's senior design folks involved. Only after they cleared the design did it go for manufacture.

Not manufacture bro. Prototype construction.

 

[MirageBlue]

Not manufacture bro. Prototype construction.

Prototype has to be manufactured and flown na?

It won't fly unless it is rigorously reviewed. CDR is basically that. A panel of engineers from certification agencies and senior engineers review how the design was done, why it was done the way it was done and whether the processes followed were as per established aerospace standards.

That has to be proven. With documentation. It is no small task, trust me.

 

[Sharky]

Great so lets re-visit this thread again in 2050 just in time for the first prototype's rollout

 

[BobBiswas]

Well, the funny part however is indeed that since years in all social media groups like this one Indians are mocking CHinese for onyl copying while their own types are praised as great individual unique platforms ... and now they make a fighter that is more a copy of the J-35 than the J-35 ever could be rated of the F-35 simply since it has two engines!

In case of China, copying is not just skin deep....
They actually stole F-35 designs.
And they have a history for that. Stealing IPR that is.
So yes, its apt to call it out.

BTW airframe design of KAI-KFX and TFX is also heavily "inspired" to an exact copy of F-35 in many aspect.
Last but not hte least India DID try a number of designs.

 

[BobBiswas]

Great so lets re-visit this thread again in 2050 just in time for the first prototype's rollout

My estimate is 2090.... If it flies, its never gets done in India anywhere near timely limits.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Prototype has to be manufactured and flown na?

It won't fly unless it is rigorously reviewed. CDR is basically that. A panel of engineers from certification agencies and senior engineers review how the design was done, why it was done the way it was done and whether the processes followed were as per established aerospace standards.

That has to be proven. With documentation. It is no small task, trust me.

Turkey project seems to follow the timeline I told you about. CDR is done after aircraft prototype is built by them.

Phase-1 Stage-2 involves detailed design and qualifications carried out in the 2022-2029 period. The aircraft will roll out in 2023, critical design review (CDR) activities will be carried out in 2024, the production of the first aircraft, called Block-0, will be completed in 2025 and the first flight will be accomplished in 2026. Until that date, TAI aims to manufacture 3 prototypes.[1] The Block-1 configuration is planned to be developed until 2029. The manufacture of 10 Block-1 fighter jets is planned within the scope of Phase-2, and the aircraft will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force between 2030 and 2033.[1] In Phase-3, between 2034 and 2040, development and mass production activities of other TF-X blocks is planned.[1]

 

[kaku]

Turkey project seems to follow the timeline I told you about. CDR is done after aircraft prototype is built by them.

Phase-1 Stage-2 involves detailed design and qualifications carried out in the 2022-2029 period. The aircraft will roll out in 2023, critical design review (CDR) activities will be carried out in 2024, the production of the first aircraft, called Block-0, will be completed in 2025 and the first flight will be accomplished in 2026. Until that date, TAI aims to manufacture 3 prototypes.[1] The Block-1 configuration is planned to be developed until 2029. The manufacture of 10 Block-1 fighter jets is planned within the scope of Phase-2, and the aircraft will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force between 2030 and 2033.[1] In Phase-3, between 2034 and 2040, development and mass production activities of other TF-X blocks is planned.[1]

Bhaiya Ji, they don’t even have a RCS facility, then how they finalised airframe design without it and calling it stealth aka VLO. There are no shortcuts for these.

Turkish Aerospace Invests in Radar Cross Test Bed

Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) is investing substantially in carrying out Radar Cross-Section (RCS) tests to develop aerial platforms. The test bed will be used primarily for Turkish Fighters (TF) and other indigenous projects. Turkey’s most prominent and the world’s 5th largest radar cross-sectional...

www.turdef.com

There are lots of dubious cases in KAAN, which we shouldn’t discuss here.

KF-21 is far more a believable story, they kept the things simple, even forging bulkhead with aluminium instead of titanium.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Bhaiya Ji, they don’t even have a RCS facility, then how they finalised airframe design without it and calling it stealth aka VLO. There are no shortcuts for these.

Turkish Aerospace Invests in Radar Cross Test Bed

Turkish Aerospace (TUSAŞ) is investing substantially in carrying out Radar Cross-Section (RCS) tests to develop aerial platforms. The test bed will be used primarily for Turkish Fighters (TF) and other indigenous projects. Turkey’s most prominent and the world’s 5th largest radar cross-sectional...

www.turdef.com

There are lots of dubious cases in KAAN, which we shouldn’t discuss here.

KF-21 is far more a believable story, they kept the things simple, even forging bulkhead with aluminium instead of titanium.

I have definitely felt something is strange about KAAN. I have felt for a while that this is a bull$hit program, but if I say it @Joe Shearer will say some nonsense and delete the post/ speed limit etc.


Look at this- who the f*** completes the complete complete flight testing in 1 year and starts production within 1 year?
nd qualifications carried out in the 2022-2029 period. The aircraft will roll out in 2023, critical design review (CDR) activities will be carried out in 2024, the production of the first aircraft, called Block-0, will be completed in 2025 and

Like you pointed out- how the hell do you do RCS testing without Anachoeic chamber testing? I haven't hard of tha about KAAN at all.

And the plane looks very wierd.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Great so lets re-visit this thread again in 2050 just in time for the first prototype's rollout

Wow.

Thoughtful of you.

Let's see, just in time to celebrate my centennial.

 

[Joe Shearer]

if I say it @Joe Shearer will say some nonsense and delete the post/ speed limit etc.

I might.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I might.

I was very keen on sying that the front of the Kaan was looking extremely weird too....like a mentally retarded horse...look close and you will see the similarity...

But then I chose not to say it....

 

[Yasser76]

Indians crying and mocking a real plan that has actually flown in a thread about a plane that only exists on the drawing board sums up much of Indian Defence