Chinese Military - General News

[j_hungary]

I don't know why you need to attack Vietnam to secure the Malacca strait Vietnam is way out in Indochina. The road to Malaysia runs through Laos which is a Chinese ally they just finished HSR last year and it ends in Vientiane just close to the border of Thailand. Plan is afoot to continue from Vientiane to Bangkok in 2 phases Bangkok to Nakhon Rachasima and then to Vientiane. The first phase is in construction

The Kunming–Singapore railway, also referred to as the Pan-Asian Railway, is a network of railways that connects China, Singapore and all the countries of mainland Southeast Asia. The concept originated with the British and French colonial empires, which sought to link the railways they had built in southwest China, Indochina and Malaya, but international conflicts in the 20th century kept regional railways fragmented. The idea was formally revived in October 2006 when 18 Asian and Eurasian countries signed the Trans-Asian railway Network Agreement, which incorporated the Kunming–Singapore railway into the Trans-Asian railway network.

The network consists of three main routes from Kunming, China to Bangkok, Thailand: the Eastern route via Vietnam and Cambodia; the Central route via Laos, and the Western route via Myanmar. The southern half of the network from Bangkok to Singapore has been operational since 1918. The Central route opened on 3 December 2021, with the opening of the Yuxi–Mohan railway and Boten–Vientiane railway linking with the other operational segments of the route, which formally connected Kunming and Singapore directly by rail.
View attachment 58135

unless you are talking about a seaborne amphibious landing without ground line of communication support, China would need to attack either Vietnam and Laos, or Myanmar to establish a GLOC in order to support the seaborne invasion in either Malaysia or Thailand because China have no border to either Thailand or Malaysia, especially so for Thailand because it is on the other side of South China seas, it's on the Indian Ocean. Otherwise, Chinese troop would have been slaughtered D-Day style because Chinese sealift capability is below 20000.

Laos is not China allies, just because they build the HSR does not mean they are okay for China to use their country as base when they go to war with the US. And you can even get to Laos without go over Vietnam first.

And again, that's beside the point, as I said, it's not the troop that is the matter, it is always how you can support that troop and again, you ain't simplifying the issue by invading 2 or 3 more countries.

 

[Vi-va]

How big of a facility is this? Is this one facility or spread out over a large area?

I don’t doubt china’s industrial capacity to do this; totally possible, but considering the costs to run, is this something that sits mostly idle until it has to ramp up in time of need?

China's car manufacturing capacity is more than 100,000/day. Shell is much easier to make, and the factory is much smaller.

I don't know why so many people believe 100,000/day is difficult for China, is it just because the West production rate is so slow?

 

[Vi-va]

lol, even full-blown war don't need 100,000 round a day.

Think about it like this, beside the logistic effort you need to bring those shell to the frontline (A truck can carry about 1000 round each (or 5 tons), you need 100 trucks per day just to bring them to and from somewhere.)

Each gun can fire around 1000-2500 rounds before the barrel wear out (M777 failure rate is at around 2000), let's say you have 1000 guns on the field 100,000 rounds would mean you need to also bring 1000 spare barrel every 10 days for you to change out of to sustain that firing rate, that another hundred or so truck.

Both these combine, you will need a logistic system so big that you probably will end up putting 80/20 or even 90/10 tooth to tail ratio. That's like 15-20% of normal logistic limit (usually at 30/35 to 65/70)

100 trucks is a big number? What are you smoking?

China has more than 7 million trucks on the road, and a large portion of them are heavy trucks that carry 50 tons of cargo.

 

[Vi-va]

let make a math. the new rheinmetall 155mm ammo factory at Unterfüss makes 100,000 shells per year (not per day), then production rate increased later to 200,000 per year. to have a production capacity of 100,000 per day the chinese factory is 365 times bigger or 182.5 times bigger. then comes the cost. one 155mm shell (with all components as metall, explosive, igniter) cost 3,600 euros (reail price to Ukraine army). let assume China has the people, money and lands, 1 factory alone would produce artillery shells worht 360 million euros per day. lets assume chinese work 5 day weekx, they will produce shells worth 90 billion euros in peacetime.

realistic?

well, I don´t know.

Your calculation base is problematic.

There are many kinds of shell, and the basic version of shell is cheap. Just some iron and gunpowder.

I think in total war mode, it only costs hundreds of bucks at most in China.

Some shell may be expensive, such as premium ones.

 

[j_hungary]

100 trucks is a big number? What are you smoking?

China has more than 7 million trucks on the road, and a large portion of them are heavy trucks that carry 50 tons of cargo.

100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number.

Think about it like this, you need to refuel twice for 1000km range, 100 truck with 120L tank refuel twice (4 times return) you are looking at 240,000L fuel just for that (480,000L return), a standard tanker have a capacity of 20800L, which mean you don't just need 100 truck running up and down all day, you also need 10 tanker. 20 if you are going in return, and that's just for a 1000km range, that's shorter than Sydney to Brisbane.

You then also need to bring the rest of the supply as well, and you are talking about all these



So yes, 100 trucks a day bringing in just 1 single type of munition is a big number. A tanker truck usually are 20 meters long (30 meters long if you hae a 40 ft container), back-to-back 100 truck would have been 20km. That's half the infamous 40km Russian convoy, and you saw how that convoy went.

 

[Viet]

Your calculation base is problematic.

There are many kinds of shell, and the basic version of shell is cheap. Just some iron and gunpowder.

I think in total war mode, it only costs hundreds of bucks at most in China.

Some shell may be expensive, such as premium ones.

I made the math based on rheinmetall artillery shells delivered to Ukraine at market price of 3,600 euros apiece. The same shell costs 2,000 euros before the war. Don’t ask me but someone makes big profits.
the russians make artillery shell for $1,000 a piece. I don’t know about chinese production cost. Can be less as you said it. Low rate NK artillery shell costs even much more less than chinese I assume.

 

[j_hungary]

100 trucks is a big number? What are you smoking?

China has more than 7 million trucks on the road, and a large portion of them are heavy trucks that carry 50 tons of cargo.

100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number.

Think about it like this, you need to refuel twice for 1000km range, 100 truck with 120L tank refuel twice (4 times return) you are looking at 240,000L fuel just for that (480,000L return), a standard tanker have a capacity of 20800L, which mean you don't just need 100 truck running up and down all day, you also need 10 tanker. 20 if you are going in return, and that's just for a 1000km range, that's shorter than Sydney to Brisbane.

You then also need to bring the rest of the supply as well, and you are talking about all these


So yes, 100 trucks a day bringing in just 1 single type of munition is a big number. A container truck usually are 20 meters long (30 meters long if you have a 40 ft container), back-to-back 100 truck would have been 20km. That's half the infamous 40km Russian convoy, and you saw how that convoy went.

And lol, I would like to see how you direct 7 million trucks on the road at the same time, that traffic jam would have been horrific. The famous red ball express is the biggest logistic operation in WW2, and that only ever see some 5000 truck a day traffic........

Red Ball Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Michael]

100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number.

Think about it like this, you need to refuel twice for 1000km range, 100 truck with 120L tank refuel twice (4 times return) you are looking at 240,000L fuel just for that (480,000L return), a standard tanker have a capacity of 20800L, which mean you don't just need 100 truck running up and down all day, you also need 10 tanker. 20 if you are going in return, and that's just for a 1000km range, that's shorter than Sydney to Brisbane.

You then also need to bring the rest of the supply as well, and you are talking about all these
View attachment 58171

So yes, 100 trucks a day bringing in just 1 single type of munition is a big number. A container truck usually are 20 meters long (30 meters long if you have a 40 ft container), back-to-back 100 truck would have been 20km. That's half the infamous 40km Russian convoy, and you saw how that convoy went.

And lol, I would like to see how you direct 7 million trucks on the road at the same time, that traffic jam would have been horrific. The famous red ball express is the biggest logistic operation in WW2, and that only ever see some 5000 truck a day traffic........

Red Ball Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you come to China and have a look, put aside your prejudices and get to know China seriously, you will change your opinion a lot.

In China, companies with more than 100 trucks are everywhere. There are so many such companies that it is impossible to count.

JD Express has 200,000+ trucks shuttling throughout China every day. In China, this is just an ordinary private courier company. Zhongtong Express, YTO Express, Shentong Express, Yunda Express, SF Express, China Post............. And that's just the capacity of the express delivery industry

 

[FuturePAF]

China's car manufacturing capacity is more than 100,000/day. Shell is much easier to make, and the factory is much smaller.

I don't know why so many people believe 100,000/day is difficult for China, is it just because the West production rate is so slow?

It seems unbelievable because domestic demand doesn’t seem that high to warrant such an expensive production line, and China is known to be good at managing its investment allocations. It seems like a waste, although it could be an insurance policy, so it’s not that it’s impossible. Many don’t understand the rationale for such a large production line.

 

[j_hungary]

If you come to China and have a look, put aside your prejudices and get to know China seriously, you will change your opinion a lot.

In China, companies with more than 100 trucks are everywhere. There are so many such companies that it is impossible to count.

JD Express has 200,000+ trucks shuttling throughout China every day. In China, this is just an ordinary private courier company. Zhongtong Express, YTO Express, Shentong Express, Yunda Express, SF Express, China Post............. And that's just the capacity of the express delivery industry

Dude I lived in China and Hong Kong for over 20 years +

This is not about how many trucks you have, this is about how you can move them to where you want and how much fuel you are going to need

Again, 100 truck a day for just 100,000 155 rounds is a lot, imagine that Russian convoy, half of those the Russian is carrying is 155 rounds.

And finally, you can only drive freight truck on the road, so all your military offensive is following the road if you want to use that, otherwise you can't use container truck offroad, it gets stuck pretty quick.

 

[Michael]

Dude I lived in China and Hong Kong for over 20 years +

This is not about how many trucks you have, this is about how you can move them to where you want and how much fuel you are going to need

Again, 100 truck a day for just 100,000 155 rounds is a lot, imagine that Russian convoy, half of those the Russian is carrying is 155 rounds.

And finally, you can only drive freight truck on the road, so all your military offensive is following the road if you want to use that, otherwise you can't use container truck offroad, it gets stuck pretty quick.

If you really knew China, you wouldn't say such things. When you say "100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number" in front of the Chinese, you will be ridiculed.

After 1949, in all the wars in which the PLA participated, there were serious logistical supply problems, which led to great suffering for the soldiers at the front. An important factor in this problem is the ability to transport materials.

After entering the new century, the PLA spent huge manpower and financial resources to solve the problem of logistics supply, and even set up a special unit "PLA Joint Logistics Support Force".

Today, China has the world's largest and fastest civilian logistics and transportation system. At the same time, PLA's three-dimensional logistics transportation and support system has already been built.

The problem you mentioned, for PLA, really doesn't have any difficulty.

Relatively speaking, the current air transport capacity of the PLA is insufficient, and the number of Y20 is far from enough.

 

[j_hungary]

If you really knew China, you wouldn't say such things. When you say "100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number" in front of the Chinese, you will be ridiculed.

Dude, 100 truck a day just for the shell is ridicous. When I was in Iraq, my unit is at best getting 2 trucks worth of supply a day, how many truck do you think the whole of America have? Do you know what kind of traffic jam for 100 truck to go at the same time?

This is not about how many trucks you have, you can have gazillion number of truck but how you direct your truck to your final destination, and what kind of resource you need to bring those truck to the line and back. I did the calculation in a post before. Read it or not is up to you.

I will be ridiculed because none of you people know how to fight a war, and thinking, sweet, we had 7 millions truck and hence we can do anything with it, without thinking how logistic actually work.

After 1949, in all the wars in which the PLA participated, there were serious logistical supply problems, which led to great suffering for the soldiers at the front. An important factor in this problem is the ability to transport materials.

After entering the new century, the PLA spent huge manpower and financial resources to solve the problem of logistics supply, and even set up a special unit "PLA Joint Logistics Support Force".

Today, China has the world's largest and fastest civilian logistics and transportation system. At the same time, PLA's three-dimensional logistics transportation and support system has already been built.

The problem you mentioned, for PLA, really doesn't have any difficulty.

Yeah, 7 million trucks on the road, that I like to see, and again, you can't just use trailer hauler to haul supplies, that's strictly road bound vehicle, so are you saying PLA don't go off road? And we aren't talking about civilian logistic, I mean, what next? are you going to say you are going to mail those rounds with Chinese post?

Relatively speaking, the current air transport capacity of the PLA is insufficient, and the number of Y20 is far from enough.

There is a reason why you are not allow to bring Lithium battery on an aircraft. Do you want to take a while guess why it was? And you are thinking about PETN packed with Cordite on a plane, what could possibly go wrong?

Dude, it's comment like this showing how much you know about the topic in question

 

[Vi-va]

If you really knew China, you wouldn't say such things. When you say "100 trucks A DAY just for one single entity is a big number" in front of the Chinese, you will be ridiculed.

After 1949, in all the wars in which the PLA participated, there were serious logistical supply problems, which led to great suffering for the soldiers at the front. An important factor in this problem is the ability to transport materials.

After entering the new century, the PLA spent huge manpower and financial resources to solve the problem of logistics supply, and even set up a special unit "PLA Joint Logistics Support Force".

Today, China has the world's largest and fastest civilian logistics and transportation system. At the same time, PLA's three-dimensional logistics transportation and support system has already been built.

The problem you mentioned, for PLA, really doesn't have any difficulty.

Relatively speaking, the current air transport capacity of the PLA is insufficient, and the number of Y20 is far from enough.

100,000 trucks per day on a large scale of war is not a big deal for China at all.

In total war mode, I am pretty sure China can organize 10 times as many trucks as the Russians in the Ukraine War.

The only concern should be if there are enough roads. LOL

 

[Michael]

Dude, 100 truck a day just for the shell is ridicous. When I was in Iraq, my unit is at best getting 2 trucks worth of supply a day, how many truck do you think the whole of America have? Do you know what kind of traffic jam for 100 truck to go at the same time?

This is not about how many trucks you have, you can have gazillion number of truck but how you direct your truck to your final destination, and what kind of resource you need to bring those truck to the line and back. I did the calculation in a post before. Read it or not is up to you.

I will be ridiculed because none of you people know how to fight a war, and thinking, sweet, we had 7 millions truck and hence we can do anything with it, without thinking how logistic actually work.


Yeah, 7 million trucks on the road, that I like to see, and again, you can't just use trailer hauler to haul supplies, that's strictly road bound vehicle, so are you saying PLA don't go off road? And we aren't talking about civilian logistic, I mean, what next? are you going to say you are going to mail those rounds with Chinese post?




There is a reason why you are not allow to bring Lithium battery on an aircraft. Do you want to take a while guess why it was? And you are thinking about PETN packed with Cordite on a plane, what could possibly go wrong?

Dude, it's comment like this showing how much you know about the topic in question

It is difficult for people from different countries to really understand the differences between different countries. This is due to a variety of factors.

For example, when Australia's hares are flooded, the Australia government and people have a headache. At that time, the advice of Chinese netizens to Australia was: open a direct flight from Australia to Chengdu, give Sichuan people visa-free, only a few months, and eat the extinction of Australia hare............... It's a joke, but it illustrates a huge cultural difference.

In China today, no Chinese would doubt that the PLA could produce 100,000 shells a day and deliver them to front-line soldiers in time. Even if everyone in the rest of the world doubts, not a single Chinese will doubt.

Chinese have this view, not blind worship or brainwashing. There is a television channel in China (CCTV-7) that broadcasts all kinds of information about the PLA on a regular basis, including a lot of videos of the PLA's military production and super-large-scale long-range delivery - I don't know if it can be watched outside of China.

If you really want to test the long-range delivery capabilities of the PLA, you can only wait until the real war comes.

Or, you can look at how the PLA behaves when a major natural disaster strikes in China.

In China, the PLA steps in when the impact of natural disasters exceeds the capacity of government departments to deal with them. You can look at the response time, troop dispatch, and material dispatch of the PLA. At the same time, you can compare the ability of other countries to cope with the same situation.

 

[j_hungary]

It is difficult for people from different countries to really understand the differences between different countries. This is due to a variety of factors.

For example, when Australia's hares are flooded, the Australia government and people have a headache. At that time, the advice of Chinese netizens to Australia was: open a direct flight from Australia to Chengdu, give Sichuan people visa-free, only a few months, and eat the extinction of Australia hare............... It's a joke, but it illustrates a huge cultural difference.

In China today, no Chinese would doubt that the PLA could produce 100,000 shells a day and deliver them to front-line soldiers in time. Even if everyone in the rest of the world doubts, not a single Chinese will doubt.

Chinese have this view, not blind worship or brainwashing. There is a television channel in China (CCTV-7) that broadcasts all kinds of information about the PLA on a regular basis, including a lot of videos of the PLA's military production and super-large-scale long-range delivery - I don't know if it can be watched outside of China.

If you really want to test the long-range delivery capabilities of the PLA, you can only wait until the real war comes.

Or, you can look at how the PLA behaves when a major natural disaster strikes in China.

In China, the PLA steps in when the impact of natural disasters exceeds the capacity of government departments to deal with them. You can look at the response time, troop dispatch, and material dispatch of the PLA. At the same time, you can compare the ability of other countries to cope with the same situation.

Again, you have no idea how military logistic works.

You are still thinking about civilian logistic.

First of all, all military logistic is on time logistic, you have to constantly supplied on the road, and it cannot be delay, unlike you post something from China Post, where it take you 2 to 3 days to ship something from Beijing to Shenzhen, all military logistic package by default is express. Because you can't wait 2 to 3 days to receive your food and ammunition.

Second, all logistic is hub to hub, you have to constantly have shipment on the road going to one place to another, because you don't just need one log pack per battle, you need to keep them coming, so you are sending one after the other..

And finally, you can't depend on road network (MSR/ASR) for logistic, one, your army don't advance thru road, if they do, that's a big mistake, two, you need to be able to send something without reference and landmark, usually a Grid Co-ordinate and you can't have your troop to wait for your logistic head, you need to be able to have your package send in the middle of nowhere on time when they need it.

This is not about how many people you have; this is not about how many trucks you have, this is about how you can send something on the go to the prearrange point where you can receive it when you need it. As I said, there are 5.6 million semi-trailers in America, it does not mean you can put them all on the road and going to the same place at the same time, that is going to jam up all artery road.