Chinese Naval Platform & PLAN discussions

[guangdongt]

They may say that or they have accepted performance trade offs; noise level vs. career life probability it will matter compared to fuel costs/range.

Btw, yes I remember the test ship with the two sided area being tested about a decade ago.

This is related to the development of China's military level, not only ships, but also the entire conventional weapon system. As you can see from the progress of China's civilian products such as cars and mobile phones, around 2010, we mainly solved the problems of whether there were or not, such as the j20 prototype testing machine/052c/054A. After 2020, China's new generation weapon systems and platforms pay more attention to quality and lifespan/whether the system is advanced, reliable, and easy to operate. The public information currently revealed by 054b and j35 both indicate that progress is intrinsic. They are not the next generation products that change the times, but they are likely to be outstanding products at the same level，So I sneer at the Indian people's incessant chatter about the quality of Chinese weapons. They lived more than a decade ago and did not even notice the significant changes in China's generation of weapons in 2020. This even includes our rifle, the new assault rifle 191, which is equipped at an extremely fast speed and popularized throughout the army in just a few years. This is much faster than the initial Type 95 rifle, and the military has responded well. It is reliable, accurate, sturdy, and durable

 

[FuturePAF]

This is related to the development of China's military level, not only ships, but also the entire conventional weapon system. As you can see from the progress of China's civilian products such as cars and mobile phones, around 2010, we mainly solved the problems of whether there were or not, such as the j20 prototype testing machine/052c/054A. After 2020, China's new generation weapon systems and platforms pay more attention to quality and lifespan/whether the system is advanced, reliable, and easy to operate. The public information currently revealed by 054b and j35 both indicate that progress is intrinsic. They are not the next generation products that change the times, but they are likely to be outstanding products at the same level，So I sneer at the Indian people's incessant chatter about the quality of Chinese weapons. They lived more than a decade ago and did not even notice the significant changes in China's generation of weapons in 2020. This even includes our rifle, the new assault rifle 191, which is equipped at an extremely fast speed and popularized throughout the army in just a few years. This is much faster than the initial Type 95 rifle, and the military has responded well. It is reliable, accurate, sturdy, and durable

They are stuck in viewing China as though it is limited, and a China that advanced on a steady pace not exponentially, as it climbs the technological ladder.

You should see how they plan to counter the Fujian, when it does its eventual patrol in the Indian Ocean.

Btw, as China moved up the technological and financial ladder, it’s inevitable more expensive but rugged systems will be used. More gas turbine where appropriate but also at a better cost economy, as large volumes will be made to reduce unit cost.

 

[guangdongt]

True. The only country China would probably consider selling an export approved version of the Type 052D is Pakistan. Interoperability and secure maintenance facilities in a friendly country will mean a sale to Pakistan is support to the PLAN’s own goal of securing its SLOCs from the Persian gulf to mainland China, while also bogging down India with another way of matching their technological capabilities and maintaining a conventional balance between India and Pakistan.

It fits China’s desire to decrease the chances of war by making Pakistan strong enough to deter war, while slowly building the maintenance facilities in the region should China need them.

I think it depends on whether Pakistan's naval targets will expand to destroyers or large frigates. At last year's Lancaway International Maritime and Aviation Exhibition, China showcased the foreign trade type 052de destroyer. The on-site model of 052de has been labeled as a large frigate. According to on-site promotional materials, 052DE is displayed under the code name "Whale Shark -6000", with a length of 156 meters and a width of 9.8 meters. It has a standard displacement of 6800 tons and a full load displacement of approximately 7600 tons. The Whale Shark-6000 adopts a diesel fuel combination propulsion system, with a maximum speed of 28 knots and a range of 4000 nautical miles/16 knots. I noticed that the 052de is equipped with a 517b meter wave radar, commonly referred to as a "hanger" in China, indicating that it is partially similar to the first batch of versions of the 052d destroye，But to be honest, the sales target countries for phased array shield ships are very few. These countries that are capable of bearing the burden either have deep ties with Europe and America, or are subject to sanctions, which has a great geopolitical impact.

 

[gambit]

lol, "90% worthless" was still able to push you guys back halfway through Korea.
Maybe US army is "99%" worthless

Is there a book in China that says how you guys lost against VN in 1979? Of course not. Guess the PLA forgot about bringing back the Korean War veterans in that border conflict, eh?

 

[ety]

Is there a book in China that says how you guys lost against VN in 1979? Of course not. Guess the PLA forgot about bringing back the Korean War veterans in that border conflict, eh?

In your Vietnamese and American wet dream.

 

[Han Patriot]

lol, "90% worthless" was still able to push you guys back halfway through Korea.
Maybe US army is "99%" worthless

Korean War actually stopped US from invading North China. The plan was to attack China from the North. US wanted to reinstate KMT back in China. The war proved to the West that the days of using a couple of gunboats to defeat an entire nation were over. Mac Arthur was so humiliated that he wanted to use nukes in Korea. Imagine your war hero 5 years prior getting so desperate. The Korean War ended the myth of American invincibility and ensured peace for the next 50 years. US did not dare intervene in China again, so when people tell me US will intervene in Taiwan, hahahaha

 

[Han Patriot]

Is there a book in China that says how you guys lost against VN in 1979? Of course not. Guess the PLA forgot about bringing back the Korean War veterans in that border conflict, eh?

Maybe we didn't lose as much as the Americans I guess. lol

 

[ety]

Korean War actually stopped US from invading North China. The plan was to attack China from the North. US wanted to reinstate KMT back in China. The war proved to the West that the days of using a couple of gunboats to defeat an entire nation were over. Mac Arthur was so humiliated that he wanted to use nukes in Korea. Imagine your war hero 5 years prior getting so desperate. The Korean War ended the myth of American invincibility and ensure peace for the next 50 years. US did not dare intervene in China again, so when people tell me US will intervene in Taiwan, hahahaha

And Vietnam war of US completely occupying Vietnam and Laos was designed to encircle or attack China from the south as predicted by Mao during the Korean war. US troops stationed in Taiwan was designed to encircle or attack China from the east. The three attacks from three directions were predicted by Mao just after founding of PRC. Mao chose to fight the Americans head on in Korea.

 

[Han Patriot]

And Vietnam war of US completely occupying Vietnam and Laos was designed to encircle or attack China from the south as predicted by Mao during the Korean war. US troops stationed in Taiwan was designed to encircle or attack China from the east. The three attacks from three directions were predicted by Mao just after founding of PRC. Mao chose to fight the Americans head on in Korea.

Actually, China's geopolitical situation is better than during Mao's time, Russia, Central Asia, South East Asia is now stable with us. Korea, Taiwan and Japan had always been there since day 1, so at least we pushed their expansion to stop there. The biggest mistake US did was fcking with Russia, else we would have been gang raped by the Whites. Russia is the world's largest resource holder, food, minerals, energy and we desperately need them and they are just next door. Xi was right, this is a once in a lifetime change not seen for the past 100 years. This single act will determine our fate for the next century, thank you AMERICA.

 

[ety]

Actually, China's geopolitical situation is better than during Mao's time, Russia, Central Asia, South East Asia is now stable with us. Korea, Taiwan and Japan had always been there since day 1, so at least we pushed their expansion to stop there. The biggest mistake US did was fcking with Russia, else we would have been gang raped by the Whites. Russia is the world's largest resource holder, food, minerals, energy and we desperately need them and they are just next door. Xi was right, this is a once in a lifetime change not seen since for the last 100 years. This single act will determine our fate for the next century, thank you AMERICA.

And American troops are out of Taiwan now.

 

[Han Patriot]

And American troops are out of Taiwan now.

I think it was part of the deal to normalize relationship. Now they can't put back troops without instigating another war. Smart move by Zhou Enlai, he knew we needed to solve the Taiwan problem in the future.

 

[PakFactor]

We need long range air defense destroyers to protect our naval assets

Those are my thoughts exactly. Our surface fleet will face a more significant threat from the Indian Naval Air Force than its surface fleets as our expanding subramire fleet will be hunting Indian surface fleets.

I am a proponent of the Navy developing its air arm independently from the Air Force. The current setup we have relies to heavily on the Air Force who can from my understanding recall back the jets allocated for naval purposes leaving our surface fleet as sitting ducks for the INAF.

 

[ety]

I think it was part of the deal to normalize relationship. Now they can't put back troops without instigating another war. Smart move by Zhou Enlai, he knew we needed to solve the Taiwan problem in the future.

Yes. American foremost priority is to deal with their perceived serious existential threat and they think Russia poses the biggest imminent threat to US largely because Russia has thousands of nukes, that's why they want to mess with Russia foremost at least until very recently.

 

[guangdongt]

Those are my thoughts exactly. Our surface fleet will face a more significant threat from the Indian Naval Air Force than its surface fleets as our expanding subramire fleet will be hunting Indian surface fleets.

I am a proponent of the Navy developing its air arm independently from the Air Force. The current setup we have relies to heavily on the Air Force who can from my understanding recall back the jets allocated for naval purposes leaving our surface fleet as sitting ducks for the INAF.

TFor surface vessels, it is inconvenient to deploy without early warning aircraft detection and fighter aircraft air cover. Without these two, surface vessels are no different from naked runninghe exclusive naval air force is very important

 

[guangdongt]

So what is current used for effectively neutralize a salvo of Mach supersonic sea skimming anti-ship cruise missiles from stand off range?

The use of naval escort formations for combat, as well as multi-purpose fighter jets and missile bombers that need to strike surface vessels, is currently the most effective means of countering attempts by surface vessels to launch a salvo of anti-ship missiles. Taking the US military as an example, dozens of drones and anti-ship missiles attempting to strike the US carrier battle group is nothing but a fantasy.
The US military's Aleburk class destroyer has the ability to simultaneously detect 400 batches of targets and guide carrier based anti-aircraft missiles to launch simultaneous attacks on dozens of them. Our J-16 fighter jet also has the ability to launch anti-ship attacks in coastal waters, carrying anti-ship missiles to strike surface combat vessels and possessing extremely strong anti-ship assault capabilities in coastal waters