Chinese Naval Platform & PLAN discussions

[FuturePAF]

If Type 052D numbers keep doing up, and it remains the backbone blue ocean warship of the PLAN, will we see further improvements to the design?

 

[ety]

If Type 052D numbers keep doing up, and it remains the backbone blue ocean warship of the PLAN, will we see further improvements to the design?

Very possible as new batches are ordered, but the improvements maybe be limited by the tonnage of the destroyer. There is already a new variant 052DL.

The first three batches of the 052D Class totalled 30 ships. The fourth batch of 10 ships is currently under construction. [citation needed]

 

[FuturePAF]

Very possible as new batches are ordered, but the improvements maybe be limited by the tonnage of the destroyer. There is already a new variant 052DL.

DL is slightly longer and with minor improvements over the Standard D model.

But this design needs better surface search capabilities and a method to engage small and/or fast threats; sea-skimming and coming in waves. Even a 16 cell addition of Quad-Packed missiles in the capabilities of the ESSM/CAMM-ER would mean the adding 64 missiles dedicated for the close in defensive mission. A smaller main gun (76 or 57 mm) an making space for these missiles would probably be a more useful upgrade.

Improvements to the mast to search the surface with a different and dedicated radar band as well as IRST sensors could detect threats like the LRASM or NSM or Brahmos.

 

[ety]

DL is slightly longer and with minor improvements over the Standard D model.

But this design needs better surface search capabilities and a method to engage small and/or fast threats; sea-skimming and coming in waves. Even a 16 cell addition of Quad-Packed missiles in the capabilities of the ESSM/CAMM-ER would mean the adding 64 missiles dedicated for the close in defensive mission. A smaller main gun (76 or 57 mm) an making space for these missiles would probably be a more useful upgrade.

Improvements to the mast to search the surface with a different and dedicated radar band as well as IRST sensors could detect threats like the LRASM or NSM or Brahmos.

052D already has 24 HQ 10 SAM that can knock out incoming missiles as low as 1.5 metres. It also has H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun that deals supersonic sea skimming missiles.

 

[FuturePAF]

052D already has 24 HQ 10 SAM that can knock out incoming missiles as low as 1.5 metres. It also has H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun that deals supersonic sea skimming missiles.

Out to only 9km or 15 km for the HQ-10 and under 3 km for the H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun

Not long range enough to be fired in enough salvos to ensure being able to take out a salvo of enemy missiles. The HQ-16 is not adequate to deal with the threat in the 15-50 km range where these missiles are visible but can’t be effectively engaged.

 

[xiao]

Please confirm where I said bad quality stop trolling I ask again refrain derailing thread
China has Amazing ships
Just zero combat heritage

But there are some countries that don't even have amazing ships, such as; United Kingdom

 

[xiao]

The gas turbine engines are of the 30 MW rating, and there is a 40 MW turbofan engine in development. If the two gas turbine engine reach that level, it will be equal that of the Arleigh Burkes 78 total MW power.
Then look at replacing the diesel engines with cruising (fuel efficient / modest speed) turbofan engines so all engines use one fuel type and get better performance and usage of internal space in the ship.

Considering the Burkes weigh just under 10k tons, a variant of the Type 052D (with shaping similar to the Type 055) but in the 9-10k ton size, could be just large enough to hold another 32 VLS and be a good cost effective destroyer for the PLAN.

A 96 cell 9kton Type 052D derivative with Type 55 shaping and high speed performance all under $1 billion each could sell really well, especially in the GCC.

Heck if the PN could afford it, it would purchase 6, per its desire for Blue Water Destroyers, especially to be able to really do full EEZ ASW in force.

Yes and no, even if Pakistan has 052d, but land attacks from terrorist groups cannot be stopped unless the countries behind the terrorist groups are eliminated, the same is true of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that India said before, imagine what would happen if there was a sudden terrorist attack on the highway, 300 kilometers per hour high-speed rail, if these terrorist groups were not solved? What if there are bombs of terrorist groups on oil ships in ports?

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes and no, even if Pakistan has 052d, but land attacks from terrorist groups cannot be stopped unless the countries behind the terrorist groups are eliminated, the same is true of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that India said before, imagine what would happen if there was a sudden terrorist attack on the highway, 300 kilometers per hour high-speed rail, if these terrorist groups were not solved? What if there are bombs of terrorist groups on oil ships in ports?

India can’t be eliminated only isolated from interference in Pakistan, through neutralizing their proxies and limiting the ability of the proxies from operating from their sanctuaries in Iran and Afghanistan. This is why Pakistan needs both, conventional capabilities of a strong navy, to check the conventional Indian military, but also a strong paramilitary and police force as well as robust polity and economy to secure the borders and interdict enemy while dissuading recruitment from amongst our own people.

The second design in the following video would probably be ideal for Pakistan, but with IEP and a COGOG configuration. To be able to afford that, Pakistan would have to improve the economy and wait till China has perfected IEP tech for its own destroyers.

So Pakistan should focus on improving its economy, political landscape, and internal harmony by 2030, while China finishes that 40 MW turbofan engine and making the IEP economical and very reliable.

If pakistan is back on track to at least 6-7% annual growth and managing its politics and economy, such that it is no longer dependent (or dictated to) by the IMF or any other foreign bank, it can invest in its interests without interference.

But as or once Pakistan has made this shift for reforms and self correction, it will need support from China, in the form of integration into Chinese supply chains, to jump start Pakistan’s re-industrialization. While this can be done by ship, China also has a desire to develop its western provinces, and therefore a rail route direct between the two countries, despite the $56 Billion cost, will make it economically viable for Chinese firms to invest more in western China and in industrial parks in Pakistan where labor will be cheap enough to process raw material from all points west of Pakistan and ship them on to Chinese firms in western China for further development and then ship finally to eastern China and final assembly and export. Goods exporting to the Middle East and Africa could also go the other way or just be shipped to Karachi for final assembly (with our relatively cheaper labor) to help Pakistan have the economy to not be as dependent on western markets.

P.s. development of western China is a goal of the central government, so the rail corridor is as much beneficial to China as it is for Pakistan, and will dissuade Indian forces from being able to invade Kashmir/GB, knowing it will then be come a vital interest of China, allowing Pakistan to focus more funding on economic growth (and being better able to afford Chinese equipment).

 

[ety]

Out to only 9km or 15 km for the HQ-10 and under 3 km for the H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun

Not long range enough to be fired in enough salvos to ensure being able to take out a salvo of enemy missiles. The HQ-16 is not adequate to deal with the threat in the 15-50 km range where these missiles are visible but can’t be effectively engaged.

Much longer ranges HQ-16B and HQ-16FE have come out.

 

[Dalit]

Shocked why not sold any to Pakistan who have nil destroyers right now

Good destroyer though

It will come. No doubt.

 

[FuturePAF]

Much longer ranges HQ-16B and HQ-16FE have come out.

HQ-16 isn’t said to be as nimble against supersonic skimmers and can’t make out low RCS missiles (with the HQ-16’s semi-active seekers) like the LRASM and NSM fast enough to be as effective for the 15-50 km mission.

The HQ-16B / HQ-16FE could be good enough if it’s an active missile and has the addition of an IR sensor like the SM-2MR Block IIIB, but the size of the missile is fine for 160 km range missile, bit too large for a 70km missile. Smaller missiles could operate out to the 50 km range and be quad packed, increasing the probability of a kill.

Obscure 23-Year Old Navy SAM Was So Ahead Of Its Time That It's Still In High Demand Today

The SM-2 Block IIIB's dual-mode guidance system is still unique among the missiles the Navy's fleet uses to defend against aerial threats.

www.twz.com

 

[ety]

DL is slightly longer and with minor improvements over the Standard D model.

But this design needs better surface search capabilities and a method to engage small and/or fast threats; sea-skimming and coming in waves. Even a 16 cell addition of Quad-Packed missiles in the capabilities of the ESSM/CAMM-ER would mean the adding 64 missiles dedicated for the close in defensive mission. A smaller main gun (76 or 57 mm) an making space for these missiles would probably be a more useful upgrade.

Improvements to the mast to search the surface with a different and dedicated radar band as well as IRST sensors could detect threats like the LRASM or NSM or Brahmos.

 

[FuturePAF]

It’s a good start, but it might be able detect the small RCS missiles like LRASM and NSM far enough out to have enough opportunities to fire off missiles with a 50 km in the needed numbers.

An IRST system is needed, like Artemis.

 

[Nuffle]

Some funny comments here. India is a true Blue Water Navy because it sails in the Red Sea, but the PLA Navy is not because it has no bases abroad hahahaha

The only reaction to this is to laugh.

 

[ety]