Chinese SAC - FC-31/J-35 5th Gen Stealth Aircraft

Any export J-35 will still be an extremely expensive fighter.

If China is okay exporting J-35 even as a separate export model, PAF will certainly be a key strategic recipient, regardless of financing. Of course China doesn't give things away for free but the terms of price and package will no doubt be extremely favorable to Pakistan.

This would be an issue with SAC though. If other customers are aware of Pakistan's inability to afford full price J-35E, they will be less willing to pay full price, presenting SAC and Chinese government with a conundrum. On one hand they want to sell for profit to wealthier nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia, whoever is low or measured risk but also want to supply Pakistan.

Therefore I believe Pakistan will not be offered J-35E even if such a machine were to be made available to market until after India buys a 5th gen fighter. That would give China and Pakistan a reason and plausible deniability on price which usually is kept secret anyway but if India doesn't get a 5th gen, no other potential customer is going to believe Pakistan is paying full price for J-35E.
 
niubi said:
Any export J-35 will still be an extremely expensive fighter.

If China is okay exporting J-35 even as a separate export model, PAF will certainly be a key strategic recipient, regardless of financing. Of course China doesn't give things away for free but the terms of price and package will no doubt be extremely favorable to Pakistan.

This would be an issue with SAC though. If other customers are aware of Pakistan's inability to afford full price J-35E, they will be less willing to pay full price, presenting SAC and Chinese government with a conundrum. On one hand they want to sell for profit to wealthier nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia, whoever is low or measured risk but also want to supply Pakistan.

Therefore I believe Pakistan will not be offered J-35E even if such a machine were to be made available to market until after India buys a 5th gen fighter. That would give China and Pakistan a reason and plausible deniability on price which usually is kept secret anyway but if India doesn't get a 5th gen, no other potential customer is going to believe Pakistan is paying full price for J-35E.
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Allegedly a comment in that thread claimed that an UAE test pilot went to SAC last October.
 
Ali_Baba said:
China will need to revisit its WS-19 "restrictions". It is one thing for China to restrict and quite another for a client country to take on technical risk that they don't want to manage on their own.
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Regarding this issue, it's not something you or I can decide. Nobody cares about your or my opinion. I'm just stating the information I've gathered.

However, there are some problems with your perspective.

You need to understand WS-13/WS-21/WS-19 first. These are three different engines.

The WS-21 engine originated from the WS-13 project, and the WS-13 engine originated from the RD-33 engine. This is a mature system that has been developed over decades and is compatible with Pakistan's current engine maintenance system (requiring only minimal training for adaptation). If the JF-17 series fighter jets use the WS-21 engine in the future, it will significantly reduce spare parts and maintenance costs.

The WS-19 engine, on the other hand, is a completely new design. It only had its first successful flight in 2024 and will face significant technical risks in the future. Furthermore, it is incompatible with all existing systems and requires a complete overhaul of the maintenance system.

Besides being used in the J-35 series fighter jets, the WS-21 engine is also used in other PLA aircraft, having a very wide range of applications. It's just that there is little public reporting on it.

Currently, the performance parameters of the WS-21 and WS-19 are basically the same, but there is a significant difference in cost.

How would you choose?
 
niubi said:
Any export J-35 will still be an extremely expensive fighter.

If China is okay exporting J-35 even as a separate export model, PAF will certainly be a key strategic recipient, regardless of financing. Of course China doesn't give things away for free but the terms of price and package will no doubt be extremely favorable to Pakistan.

This would be an issue with SAC though. If other customers are aware of Pakistan's inability to afford full price J-35E, they will be less willing to pay full price, presenting SAC and Chinese government with a conundrum. On one hand they want to sell for profit to wealthier nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia, whoever is low or measured risk but also want to supply Pakistan.

Therefore I believe Pakistan will not be offered J-35E even if such a machine were to be made available to market until after India buys a 5th gen fighter. That would give China and Pakistan a reason and plausible deniability on price which usually is kept secret anyway but if India doesn't get a 5th gen, no other potential customer is going to believe Pakistan is paying full price for J-35E.
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Utterly bizzarre logic. By this logic we would not have got J-10C.

China has many more important considerations then pricing the J-35 for export.
 
Yasser76 said:
Utterly bizzarre logic. By this logic we would not have got J-10C.

China has many more important considerations then pricing the J-35 for export.
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This of course is not the case (right now). But what I see is a similar to USA supremacist thinking developing in Chinese people ( not government policy as yet). This will eventually seep into their official thought process.

We need to act proactively so we don’t face 1990s kind of situation again and start reducing our dependence on China gradually.
 
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Deino said:
Really? … they bought L-15, will produce the TA-20 locally … it all makes perfect sense IMO.
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it would be possible but also involve a radical change in the entire security architecture of the GCC. I mean massive political and military implications. Training jets, armoured cars and SPHs are one thing, a 5th gen Chinese jet in what the US consider's "it's turf" is another.
My guess is they evaluated it to learn about 5th Gen and gently pressure US over F-35...
 
Bilal said:
This of course is not the case (right now). But what I see is a similar to USA supremacist thinking developing in Chinese people ( not government policy as yet). This will eventually seep into their official thought process.

We need to act proactively so we don’t face 1990s kind of situation again and start reducing our dependence on China gradually.
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I really do not see that happening at all so agree to disagree.
 
I think it is pointless to discuss the export license for the WS-19 at this stage, as our understanding of its specifics is largely based on speculation. The WS-19 may feature advanced technology, but medium-thrust engines like it are generally subject to fewer restrictions under international norms compared to large-thrust engines. Examples such as the EJ200 and F414 are widely used and exported with relatively few limitations. Given that Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is confident in the export prospects of the J-35, there is no reason for them to scale back on its powerplant. It is more likely that the engine will be offered as a customizable option.
 
Yasser76 said:
Agreed, also it is massively in China's interests that PAF has high availability and can easily maintain it's J-35s. Lets remember for China we are not just a customer, we are a strategic ally.
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Talks of inducting J 35 in paf are going on for more than 10 years....china was not interested in J 35 in the beginning.....it was designed to specifically meet Paf needs ....we will get whatever we want for this aircraft.....forget what all knowing Chinese bloggers say .
 
mythbuster said:
What kind of proofs ? ,.... internal documents or minutes of the secret meetings ?
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any proofs you have and tell me air Chief told you that we requested to China to develop 5th gen jet for Pakistan lol, you're spreading nonsense and crap with no backup as usual lol
 
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