Dangerous majoritarianism

[VCheng]

Or we have to hit rock bottom. The point where the complicit majority will not be able to fleece the scraps that it is still happy with right now. We have done it once and do seem to have a knack for it. No guarantees of course, we have also failed before.



Not when the majority in the country is still afraid of, opposed to, and/or indifferent to questioning the cruelty subjected on its own people or the fabricated religious arguments, which ironically constitute bidah and hence are haram. The rabid and emotionally charged horde of illiterate animals, supported and allowed by the powers that be for their own political gains elsewhere, is plenty to dissuade any voices of dissent.

Otherwise, the law and the "religious" argument can be picked apart in minutes by anyone still in control of their faculties.



You have to couple that with freedom of speech and expression to allow reason to regulate the majoritarian discourse. Without it you have authoritarian majoritarianism masquerading as a democracy until the society's inevitable demise. Plenty of examples from human history and current affairs for both.

You answered my question in a nicely detailed way. The short answer to the solution being realistically possible is NO.

 

[VCheng]

Can it be changed?

Realistically speaking, not a chance.

 

[PakFactor]

Realistically speaking, not a chance.

In a way, will the state be willing to let go of their dog and put it down? We've seen the Lal Masjid Operation Saga. I felt that was the time to put the animal down, but he, too, stepped back.

It's a give-or-take situation.

Most importantly, we need to invest in the countryside from where these rabid mullahs are recruited; we need proper education or technical skills to make them productive members of society. When these civilians breed uncontrollably and aren't able to feed and clothe their children, then they resort to madrassas education, where the jahil teaches the jahil.

 

[VCheng]

In a way, will the state be willing to let go of their dog and put it down? We've seen the Lal Masjid Operation Saga. I felt that was the time to put the animal down, but he, too, stepped back.

It's a give-or-take situation.

Most importantly, we need to invest in the countryside from where these rabid mullahs are recruited; we need proper education or technical skills to make them productive members of society. When these civilians breed uncontrollably and aren't able to feed and clothe their children, then they resort to madrassas education, where the jahil teaches the jahil.

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon, dat's fer sure.

 

[krash]

Can it be changed? Yes, but it will require significant efforts. Is the state ready to take the lead and make the necessary sacrifices to establish its writ in a way it doesn't have to rely on religious fanatics as attack dogs?

The government does not do anything until compelled to, it has no reason to. This is a cause for the common man. Our typical Pakistani MO of complaining and praying for a savior will not work.

You answered my question in a nicely detailed way. The short answer to the solution being realistically possible is NO.

Not right now but it can. As long as dissent exists.

Most importantly, we need to invest in the countryside from where these rabid mullahs are recruited; we need proper education or technical skills to make them productive members of society. When these civilians breed uncontrollably and aren't able to feed and clothe their children, then they resort to madrassas education, where the jahil teaches the jahil.

This issue has blown past the madrassahs and the urban educated/rural illiterate divide. Ask around yourself how many educated Pakistanis are even willing to hear you out.

 

[Oscar]

Agreed but we as expats also feel for our birth place so all we can do is educate are still there, invest and promote.

I have a limited cup - when I have an expanded cup I can think beyond PDF.

 

[PakAl]

Article is probably sponsored by the terrorists. It mentions TLP extremism but doesn't highlight the real terrorists who have been bombing Pakistan for the last 20 years, the name of the groups, their followers, maddrassas, who gave fatwas, sympathisers, funds, and who keeps on protecting them. Clue, We need to look at people in the higher circles, those mullahs who sit on sarkari chairs and come on TV acting sweet.

Regarding TLP yes they are angry bunch of people and deserve a stick to calm them down but reality is majority of the population is hot tempered and haven't got the logical thinking to work out who's fooling them. Killing of innocent is forbidden in Islam but these people create a situation so tense that someone just does it, but we also have 1000s of other killing happening which noone talks about. Model town killing happened in front of our eyes but noone gives justice, the ruling elite kill people and get away with it, the corrupt and dacoits are everywhere looting, people commit suicide due to the oppression, the list can continue. TLP is run by Masjid mullahs who haven't got a clue about politics and all they do is exploit situations, their support has gone down due to their aggressive style. TLP is aggressive because the real terrorists commit terror and get away with it because they have a strong danda, so they tried to copy them but it went against them, the sunni Muslims will never support a movement that is spreading hatred and violence, the big ulema warned tlp many times and I believe they are alot calmer than before.

A few points, when tlp said why do you allow people to do blasphemy and allow blasphemy contents, pti ministers replied back freedom of speech and we don't control social media but today IK name is not allowed to be mentioned on TV, government is thinking of banning twitter, houses are raided at night to protect their own image, when it comes to the military, general's and elite then suddenly everything changes. It's double standards. The mullahs have alot of inside information, they know very well what American is requesting Pakistan to become, a homo nation, qadiani controlled who are a fitna, we all know usa agencies send messages to Pakistan government to make changes, give rights to their agents but noone cares about the 1000s of innocents in jail, even pti women are in jail, usa never mentioned anything about women rights.

 

[PakAl]

Fazul Rehman, be what he is, tried to tone down the blasphemy law; in the end, he backtracked as he couldn't control his devil spawns coming out of his madrassas.

Can it be changed? Yes, but it will require significant efforts. Is the state ready to take the lead and make the necessary sacrifices to establish its writ in a way it doesn't have to rely on religious fanatics as attack dogs?

The implementation of the law is the problem. Our police is corrupt, judges are corrupt, they don't take action. If Pakistan had rule of law, then noone will take law in to their own hands, police would have trust and respect of the people to carry fair investigation and arrest the guilty and free the innocent. In model town killings took place on live TV, those people and their families were educated people so they didn't take revenge but if they had some hot tempered people who grabbed guns and shot police officers. We all would be calling them extremists.

Regarding fazlur rehman, his followers have been issuing shirk fatwas and TTP have been bombing all over Pakistan in order to kill the kufaar people and army. So even if there is no law, people still use violence. In Islam noone should be allowed to mock religious personalities or any religion, but police should be the one dealing with it, not the people who as usual misuse the law, just like rape law is misused.

 

[PakAl]

Realistically speaking, not a chance.

This is qadiani plan, so then they can openly point fingers at religious personalities. Rape law is also misused, power and authority is also misused.

Pakistan should form a special police investigation agency, with special courts which deal with murder, rape, kidnapping, blasphemy, corruption, bribery. When fast track justice is given, the people will trust the force and noone will take law in to their own hands and if they do then strict action should be taken against them.

 

[VCheng]

This is qadiani plan, so then they can openly point fingers at religious personalities. Rape law is also misused, power and authority is also misused.

Pakistan should form a special police investigation agency, with special courts which deal with murder, rape, kidnapping, blasphemy, corruption, bribery. When fast track justice is given, the people will trust the force and noone will take law in to their own hands and if they do then strict action should be taken against them.

Blaming any particular sect or external force is pointless; none of this situation would have been possible without the nation almost in its entirety doing everything to spoil it all for themselves.

Should? More like: WON'T.

 

[Developereo]

Agreed but we as expats also feel for our birth place so all we can do is educate are still there, invest and promote.

These articles and threads are not meant to solve anything.

They are just a past-time for the usual suspects to feel superior to the unwashed masses by reciting vacuous platitudes.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

I don't get it. The whole point of democracy is the majority decides, no? Do you want minoritarianism? We have that already

Problem with democracy is exactly what you are describing is majoterianism and most of the time people vote for whet is better for me and not nation. As successful USA is

These articles and threads are not meant to solve anything.

They are just a past-time for the usual suspects to feel superior to the unwashed masses by reciting vacuous platitudes.

come on man we all feel for our homeland and wish her to progress well else e we won’t be spend time here defending her. People have different priorities and we all have finite time.

 

[PakAl]

Blaming any particular sect or external force is pointless; none of this situation would have been possible without the nation almost in its entirety doing everything to spoil it all for themselves.

Should? More like: WON'T.

Qadiani is not a sect. Our corrupt elite are to be blamed for not making reforms, not allowing the system to be upgraded, the mullahs don't have this much power, the secular brown sahib elite control Pakistan, they have backing from the western world so this increases their power. Yes living in Pakistan for a few years can easily reveal the mindset, even the so called educated degree holders show the biased and closed minded mentality, they may act all western but you can easily see right through them. Mentality is similar in most nations which are yet to develop. To test the mentality, Wasim Akram tried to start Keep Pakistan Clean movement but people proved noone actually follows Islam, he tried and failed, similar to how Punjab governor house was opened for the people to arrange picnic but looking at the state afterwards was not good, rubbish was everywhere. A small act cannot be done but people are talking about challenging the Usa.

 

[VCheng]

Qadiani is not a sect. Our corrupt elite are to be blamed for not making reforms, not allowing the system to be upgraded, the mullahs don't have this much power, the secular brown sahib elite control Pakistan, they have backing from the western world so this increases their power. Yes living in Pakistan for a few years can easily reveal the mindset, even the so called educated degree holders show the biased and closed minded mentality, they may act all western but you can easily see right through them. Mentality is similar in most nations which are yet to develop. To test the mentality, Wasim Akram tried to start Keep Pakistan Clean movement but people proved noone actually follows Islam, he tried and failed, similar to how Punjab governor house was opened for the people to arrange picnic but looking at the state afterwards was not good, rubbish was everywhere. A small act cannot be done but people are talking about challenging the Usa.

Exactly my point: Pakistan is the way it is because we work to make it that way by choice.

 

[PakAl]

Exactly my point: Pakistan is the way it is because we work to make it that way by choice.

Can't really argue against this. We can always warn people against those who conspire against them but at the end of the day it's their choice. In Syria, Libya and Yemen we have witnessed civil wars which destroyed their states, all the funding, training came from West and GCC but their population is responsible for it, they only got exploited by the powerful. But this doesn't mean we cannot expose and condemn the people behind the scenes.