Circadian Rhythm
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Smugglers are Scum of the Earth
Shoot them immediately
Those who want to enter , take a VISA and come legally
Don’t show your back at border, home advisor tells BGB
- Thread starter AbuShalehRumi
- Start date
Smugglers are Scum of the Earth
Shoot them immediately
Those who want to enter , take a VISA and come legally
c14-Isotope
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This did not even happen
CCB raids six places, arrests Bangladeshi immigrants
CCB raids six places, arrests Bangladeshi immigrants
www.deccanherald.com
Tripura: 11 Bangladeshi illegal intruders from Bangalore and 5 enroute to West Bengal arrested
Agartala: Amid tight security measures along the Indo-Bangladesh border, the influx of illegal intruders into Indian territory persists, revealing
organiser.org
google search revealed me the above recent cases
Alter_Ego
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CCB raids six places, arrests Bangladeshi immigrants
CCB raids six places, arrests Bangladeshi immigrantsTripura: 11 Bangladeshi illegal intruders from Bangalore and 5 enroute to West Bengal arrested
Agartala: Amid tight security measures along the Indo-Bangladesh border, the influx of illegal intruders into Indian territory persists, revealing
google search revealed me the above recent cases
Search all you want.
Indian media is not to be trusted.
Nilgiri
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There is no open border situation. BSF is again federal run, and so the matters concerning BSF should be taken up with the federal (centre) govt....regarding continued porosity and weaknesses that could be addressed if centre govt is actually serious about it.
Two Bangladeshi nationals arrested for illegal stay in India | Coimbatore News - Times of India
Two Bangladeshi nationals, M Mohammed Arzoo and Bolash Barman, were arrested in Coimbatore for illegally staying in India. They obtained Aadhaar cards using forged documents and were working with a banian company. The article highlights their illegal entry and activities in India.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
CID = crime investigation dept (TN, DMK in power), not a BJP run thing.
Ones that get caught, after fake aadhar investigated etc, are deported back to BD:
More than 14,000 Bangladeshi nationals sent back since 2019 | India News - Times of India
India News: India shares a 4,096-km-long boundary with Bangladesh of which South Bengal Frontier shares 913.32 kms, of which more than 50 per cent is either unfen
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
But as you can see the numbers are nowhere near reflecting claims of 20 million, 50 million etc.
UN Dept of Economic and Social affairs (DESA) estimates BD migrant stock in India at about 4 million ppl in recent years, some number of them are those that came pre-partition and also during 71 war. Others are economic migrants. UN has commentary in one paper regarding this, people can find if they are so inclined.
UN DESA estimates Indian migrant stock in BD much lower. Like much much lower around 10k - 20k.
Again reflecting the particular dynamics involving partition and 1971....and then what the overall wealth concentration picture has been from 1971 to 2020s that attract labour profiles (and what labour supply/demand are w.r.t various countries in surplus way to demand pull to begin with)..... to begin with across border (a study can be done w.r.t India and Nepal along same lines where there is much more open border situation given India Nepal special relationship)
These numbers along with the remittance levels can all be looked up at UN website, world bank and so on.....as basis to get past what respective govt/media loudmouths vested into the issue have to say for their various reasons.
Nilgiri
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It is the basic reason during all of this, India keeps visa program to extent that 1 million + BD citizens visit India yearly. i.e the visa program endures robust way given the visitors all return to BD (otherwise visa program would not continue as is).
I pointed that out to a sanghi in old PDF forum and he got really mad at me.
I pointed that out to a sanghi in old PDF forum and he got really mad at me.
There is no open border situation. BSF is again federal run, and so the matters concerning BSF should be taken up with the federal (centre) govt....regarding continued porosity and weaknesses that could be addressed if centre govt is actually serious about it.
Two Bangladeshi nationals arrested for illegal stay in India | Coimbatore News - Times of India
Two Bangladeshi nationals, M Mohammed Arzoo and Bolash Barman, were arrested in Coimbatore for illegally staying in India. They obtained Aadhaar cards using forged documents and were working with a banian company. The article highlights their illegal entry and activities in India.
CID = crime investigation dept (TN, DMK in power), not a BJP run thing.
Ones that get caught, after fake aadhar investigated etc, are deported back to BD:
More than 14,000 Bangladeshi nationals sent back since 2019 | India News - Times of India
India News: India shares a 4,096-km-long boundary with Bangladesh of which South Bengal Frontier shares 913.32 kms, of which more than 50 per cent is either unfen
But as you can see the numbers are nowhere near reflecting claims of 20 million, 50 million etc.
UN Dept of Economic and Social affairs (DESA) estimates BD migrant stock in India at about 4 million ppl in recent years, some number of them are those that came pre-partition and also during 71 war. Others are economic migrants. UN has commentary in one paper regarding this, people can find if they are so inclined.
I am confused, are you saying 4 millions Bangladeshi entered illegally in India in recent years? Or are we factoring in those during 1971 and before?
Nilgiri
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Its the total aggregate estimate existing over full time.
i.e people that were born in the area called Bangladesh today, that are estimated to reside in India (legally with citizenship or work visa etc and illegally without either).
Some large chunk of it is economic based (i.e illegals) and inevitable to large degree given the context of the population sizes and wealth concentration effect to labour pull (past hard borders) like I mention also combined with other factors like Indians largely being non Bengali (but having a Bengali population for BD migrants to subsume under etc) but vice versa not being the case for BD (could most Indians pass off as Bengali etc? nope...language gives game away right away etc)
I can dig out the UN paper later if ppl want to read it.....but no "4 million" is not a recent flux kind of thing at all, but the total estimate from larger flow/time integral estimate....and large period when BD was in much more economic stressed state too compared to today. In fact iirc, the UN paper(s) had the estimated stock at decadal intervals, say 1980, 1990, 2000 etc....and I think more or less it is stable from 2010 to 2020 as both economies averages come closer due to BD making gains and making strong wealth concentration in say Dhaka and CTG to some extent compared to before....and also ofc wage draws in middle east and so on.
Also interestingly in recent time, perhaps many of illegal immigrants from a generation ago are coming back.
According the this article below more people were caught entering BD than the other way around in 2017-2018.
"The NCRB “Crime in India 2018” report says that out of the 2,971 people arrested in 2018 while making an “outward movement” to Bangladesh, 1,532 were men, 749 women and 690 children. This corresponding numbers was 1,477, 268 and 55 in 2017.
On the other hand, “inward movement” from Bangladesh came down marginally to 1,118 in 2018 in comparison to 1,180 in 2017."
Last edited:
Nilgiri
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I looked up the thing I was quoting from top of my head from:
International Migrant Stock | Population Division
International Migrant Stock 2020 The estimates of the number (or “stock”) of international migrants disaggregated by age, sex and country or area of origin are based on national statistics, in most cases obtained from population censuses. Additionally, population registers and nationally...
From 2019 excel sheet (covering years 1990 - 2019)
The estimates:
Born in BD, living in India:
1990: 4.4 million
1995: 4.1 million
2000: 3.9 million
2005: 3.6 million
2010: 3.3 million
2015: 3.2 million
2019: 3.1 million
Born in India, living in BD:
1990: 13k
1995 - 2015: gradual increases
2019: 35k
So as you can see there is a natural population decrease over time estimated.....both by BD improving economy (to demand pull BD people back.retain to homeland etc, where they are also more secure socially, especially if more recent/transient in migration time and also the excel file shows increase into gulf countries as well from BD labour) and also natural population decline of the original large stocks that moved during partition and then from 1947 - 1971 and then the 1971 period itself with huge upheavel.
Downstream to that to present day would be whatever flux in another layer of folks (to these large earlier stock).... largely economic driven in comparison to safety/refuge driven etc.
It is of course a complicated long topic affair, @Joe Shearer probably can add some details if he is so inclined:
East Bengali refugees - Wikipedia
Refugees and Citizens in India: Memories of 1947 and 1971 in 2020
With new citizenship laws in India, the refugee is being used to determine the Indian citizen along religious lines. Ria Kapoor looks at how Partition in 1947 and the Pakistani refugee crisis of 1971 are shaping this process of…
www.historyworkshop.org.uk
Quotes:
The issue/estimates just in assam (a hot button topic well before BJP got its current power there, infact BJP used this existing issue to break off certain congress party people that were vested on the matter to gain power and retain it to large degree now in Assam, i.e the issues were well known during congress et al tenures before):
Assam Movement - Wikipedia
Anyway, all are estimates ofc, there would be some +/- on top, but is it really a top level issue that ought to be put front and centre for IND-BD socioeconomics and politics to whichever degree it is now? Better policing would deal with any criminal and security elements better, that should be priority even with no hard border to begin with.
If I were cloned 10,000 times over to run Indian (and BD if you would have me) top level politics, it would be very different picture in end.
i.e the <10 k per capita effect (too much bark politically compared to bite given actual reality people want to not process first....i.e the feature with politics broadly with negativism/fear harnessed first and most easily) I mention in the BD economy thread posts.
i.e BD people at large (and its politicians as much as they can afford to, rather than falling for "the trick/game nasties" themselves) are best off filtering first thing, is it sanghi/bhakt indian vs other type of indian and listening to and working with other type as far as possible. The vice versa of this too for Indians and filtering out the fringe jamati or bad faith Bangladeshis towards India.
That way you have larger basis of realistic, genuine stuff at the base level that will hopefully over time do its thing to get rid of nasties that percolate and get amplified for foul purpose at top level politics, reactionary and counter-reactionary stuff here....with no clear chicken and the egg resolution but rather simply might makes right that exists with the basic total 7:1 ratio IND enjoys over BD.
But its all easier said than done, things get amplified as they do for politics.
In BD, IND context, the basic rub is that both need to get to >10k per capita to really come to terms on this migration topic to begin with.....as right now its splitting hairs on sad predicament of our 90% population and how they adjust to shocking lack of development (as my core latent take as secular right winger overall, I often summarise it as total dereliction over long time of the supply side economics in the region, so everything has turned into scarcity and price levels w.r.t demand side from the larger population wants and needs...and then the surplus time that needs to be dispensed somewhere....scapegoating, fear, anger etc on someone different enough having their bit of the alloted pie and making do)
This is done by powers that be often for (or lending further to) express status quo partisanship in politics to turn people against one another (in most unfair wedge issues and harnessing of all kind of social conservative angst for zero sum/fear/anger application) and keep them weak for benefit of the 10% and 1% etc.
Nilgiri
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It only like all western media pravda generally does, go into 1 layer or 2 layer deep.... attention is lost past that for bulk audience reading it. India and US obviously have shared interests in end. Bangladesh factors only somewhat into that, rest simply we give some time to see what transpires. Media just does what media does in interim....try to give summarised agenda driven stuff for particular audience needs.
I despise personally how folks keep saying this is India's Iran shah moment etc....completely different contexts. India is no US, BD is no Iran, Yunus et al are no Khomenei, Hasina is no shah. Modi is no Carter. Indian military and US military are vastly different.
BD interim govt has no basic wherewithall or reason/drive to do what Khomenei did later to large student groups that allied with him during the uprising (and the specific things Carter didn't respond to all along the way before and during w.r.t Shah). The protests there were very very different as well.....the autocracy and political history of Iran are immensely different to BD.
These things are all distanced away from each other in very large considerable ways. But an article will make a conclusion first for its emotional need for quick short circuit clickbait need for those reading.
Joe Shearer
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I'd rather read and continue to take note of sentiments as they prevail.I looked up the thing I was quoting from top of my head from:
International Migrant Stock | Population Division
International Migrant Stock 2020 The estimates of the number (or “stock”) of international migrants disaggregated by age, sex and country or area of origin are based on national statistics, in most cases obtained from population censuses. Additionally, population registers and nationally...www.un.org
From 2019 excel sheet (covering years 1990 - 2019)
The estimates:
Born in BD, living in India:
1990: 4.4 million
1995: 4.1 million
2000: 3.9 million
2005: 3.6 million
2010: 3.3 million
2015: 3.2 million
2019: 3.1 million
Born in India, living in BD:
1990: 13k
1995 - 2015: gradual increases
2019: 35k
So as you can see there is a natural population decrease over time estimated.....both by BD improving economy (to demand pull BD people back.retain to homeland etc, where they are also more secure socially, especially if more recent/transient in migration time and also the excel file shows increase into gulf countries as well from BD labour) and also natural population decline of the original large stocks that moved during partition and then from 1947 - 1971 and then the 1971 period itself with huge upheavel.
Downstream to that to present day would be whatever flux in another layer of folks (to these large earlier stock).... largely economic driven in comparison to safety/refuge driven etc.
It is of course a complicated long topic affair, @Joe Shearer probably can add some details if he is so inclined:
(has some estimated numbers etc)East Bengali refugees - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Refugees and Citizens in India: Memories of 1947 and 1971 in 2020
With new citizenship laws in India, the refugee is being used to determine the Indian citizen along religious lines. Ria Kapoor looks at how Partition in 1947 and the Pakistani refugee crisis of 1971 are shaping this process of…
Quotes:
The issue/estimates just in assam (a hot button topic well before BJP got its current power there, infact BJP used this existing issue to break off certain congress party people that were vested on the matter to gain power and retain it to large degree now in Assam, i.e the issues were well known during congress et al tenures before):
(summary of some deep underlying reasons that come about by sudden hard border during partition, with some estimated numbers and then populist reactionary politics to it)Assam Movement - Wikipedia
Anyway, all are estimates ofc, there would be some +/- on top, but is it really a top level issue that ought to be put front and centre for IND-BD socioeconomics and politics to whichever degree it is now? Better policing would deal with any criminal and security elements better, that should be priority even with no hard border to begin with.
If I were cloned 10,000 times over to run Indian (and BD if you would have me) top level politics, it would be very different picture in end.
i.e the <10 k per capita effect (too much bark politically compared to bite given actual reality people want to not process first....i.e the feature with politics broadly with negativism/fear harnessed first and most easily) I mention in the BD economy thread posts.
i.e BD people at large (and its politicians as much as they can afford to, rather than falling for "the trick/game nasties" themselves) are best off filtering first thing, is it sanghi/bhakt indian vs other type of indian and listening to and working with other type as far as possible. The vice versa of this too for Indians and filtering out the fringe jamati or bad faith Bangladeshis towards India.
That way you have larger basis of realistic, genuine stuff at the base level that will hopefully over time do its thing to get rid of nasties that percolate and get amplified for foul purpose at top level politics, reactionary and counter-reactionary stuff here....with no clear chicken and the egg resolution but rather simply might makes right that exists with the basic total 7:1 ratio IND enjoys over BD.
But its all easier said than done, things get amplified as they do for politics.
In BD, IND context, the basic rub is that both need to get to >10k per capita to really come to terms on this migration topic to begin with.....as right now its splitting hairs on sad predicament of our 90% population and how they adjust to shocking lack of development (as my core latent take as secular right winger overall, I often summarise it as total dereliction over long time of the supply side economics in the region, so everything has turned into scarcity and price levels w.r.t demand side from the larger population wants and needs...and then the surplus time that needs to be dispensed somewhere....scapegoating, fear, anger etc on someone different enough having their bit of the alloted pie and making do)
This is done by powers that be often for (or lending further to) express status quo partisanship in politics to turn people against one another (in most unfair wedge issues and harnessing of all kind of social conservative angst for zero sum/fear/anger application) and keep them weak for benefit of the 10% and 1% etc.
There is a very dangerous amount of loose talk, outside PDF, from all accounts, and within PDF. It is better to keep out until the situation stabilises. At the moment, it is terribly unstable and terribly hysterical.
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