Don’t show your back at border, home advisor tells BGB

[Joe Shearer]

Its huge, I worked in BD for years. I know first hand. But without the technical support BD industries will have big problem. BD needs to import people talent from outside, be it India or some other country.

The point is that the propaganda churned out that people movement is entirely one-sided, only from Bangladesh into India, is only propaganda.

Moreover there are lots of Indian investments there, legally and illegally. For example one foot ware manufacturer from India has over 10 manufacture centre in BD and less than five in India.

So that's the point, isn't it? That putting up border fencing is a totally propaganda measure by the Indian central government and by the party currently in power?

 

[Joe Shearer]

There is no BJP or Sangh here. We need to close the border ASAP. Its good for both countries. BSF was the main culprit. India, BD border was a covoted posting with opportunities of earning more.

Your point is not coming across too clearly. Spend money on fencing, to keep out the hordes of Bangladeshis swarming to be let in, the termites, as Fatty called them, the ghoospetiyas, as his boss called them? If they don't exist, what's the fencing about?

Infact, the cong govt did a better planning of border fencing than this BJP govt. But lately for some reason the border proliferation is almost stopped. I am not sure of the exact reason. This has affected the economy of cross border Illegal trade centres in a big way.

I pointed out the Congress and the Sangh Parivar contrast, simply because even to those of us indifferent or sceptical about the Congress, it is clear that they did not make a propaganda campaign out of this fencing. It goes on at the shrillest, highest note in Assam, even today.

By proliferation, perhaps you mean the proliferation of illegal cross-border trade.

Have you considered, even as a joke, that it has died down because conditions on each side of the border have switched positions? The supposed poorer country has become richer, and, by extrapolation, its citizens do not need to run the risk of illegal border crossings to seek livelihood in the rich country that is now the poorer of the two.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But without the technical support BD industries will have big problem. BD needs to import people talent from outside, be it India or some other country.

Point clear? There are more Indians working in Bangladesh than Bangladeshis suspected to have crept into India.

Those working in Bangladesh must have wanted to go there, they surely didn't go at gunpoint. Presumably, of course, they must have failed to find better jobs within India? Do you get the drift?

 

[Joe Shearer]

To put it bluntly, once more, the Brigadier was talking crap. Nothing that the rather ill-behaved BGB did was accidental, or without direct support from their superiors.

 

[itsanufy]

@Joe Shearer Do you really believe that there are more Indians in Bangladesh than Bangladeshis in India. It must be a joke.
Few months back there were multiple cases of BD being caught from different places like Bangalore, Mumbai. I am yet to come across a new that illegal Indians went for livelihood were caught in BD.

Any way again few observations from me.
1. None of the Indians in BD are without a proper work visa (Trivia BD Work Permit is toughest one to get I.M.O) . They pay taxes and mostly in blue collared jobs.
I worked in BD, as company there offered me almost thrice the salary I was getting in India. It was a win win for me, as it was only a 45 min flight to Dhaka.
2. Bangladeshis in India are without work visa and some are without at all. Work in menial jobs which has easy alternative in India. Once almost all rikshawalas in Noida were Bangladeshis. There is a colony in Tollychowki Hyderanad for Bangladeshis. As a non economist I am not sure how it helped economy for India.
3. Yes its correct the trade from illegal cross border activities have helped some people in the bordering districts. But all is not well. It has put question mark to law and order. Common people including Muslims there are very much against this.
4. As you correctly mentioned for BJP it is more of a propaganda for fencing than the work itself. Most of the work was done congress govt from 1986. As I am not economist I am not sure why congress govt started fencing the border.
5. Economy wise i didn't find any miracle w.r.t. common mans life in BD with the so called rapid increase of per capita income. This Jan visit to BD I find the lifestyle of common people same as 3 years ago, only metro being added to Dhaka.
In Infact I doubt the economic stats by the old Hasina govt.

As we are two sovereign countries will not the boundaries being respected by both counties? Why someone needs to work in the foreign land without a proper Visa?

 

[UKBengali]

@itsanufy


In 2009 the new AL India-friendly government estimated that there were 500,000 illegal Indians working in BD.

With the boom of the 2010s then that number must have gone up substantially.

BD'shis are not so pathetic to make a big solemn dance about some desperate Indians that had to move to BD illegally to make an income.

Are there some illegal BD'shis in India? Probably.

Is it significant? No and no-one in their right mind would go from a BD that has less hunger to try to live in a more hungry neighbour. No logic whatsoever.

Maybe it makes some Indians feel good that they are a source of illegal immigrants but India is far too poor and hungry to be attractive to anyone.

 

[Alter_Ego]

No, you are deliberately putting word in his mouth.

He is talking about BSF shooting inside BD.

There were instances when BSF shot at farmers inside BD territory. Not the smuggler or infiltrators trying to enter India. That is illegal and unacceptable. And that would be met with force.

View attachment 59401

Here, BSF troops physically entered inside BD territory and shot at Bangladeshi national.

Its simple.
Any Indian bullet that hits Bangladeshi soil, should be repaid by atleast equal number of bullets hitting Indian soil.
Indian troops setting foot on the ground in BD, should be shot immidiately.

Unfortunately in a border conflict it will be mainly bengalis on both sites which will be harmed. But BD cannot continue have this stupid tolerant behaviour while BSF acts like drunk amateurs.

Let Indian try that on the Chinese and Pakistani border and watch the response from the other side.

And since there are big mouthed imbecils who still have fantasies about Bangladeshi immigrants in India: send back home every non-bengali Indian immigrant. Let those immigrants enjoy their loud mouthed Bharti media. Maybe RSS can feed them nice salaries.

 

[Nilgiri]

5. Economy wise i didn't find any miracle w.r.t. common mans life in BD with the so called rapid increase of per capita income. This Jan visit to BD I find the lifestyle of common people same as 3 years ago, only metro being added to Dhaka.
In Infact I doubt the economic stats by the old Hasina govt.

Yah well that is different topic to BJP incompetence, agenda and its politics. i.e their gain w.r.t keeping issue on hot-burner and then back burner without fixing it (say on simple security basis with use of UAV drone surveillance and proper response teams rather than flexing about 19th century fence tech when the areas are hard to fence to begin with).

The new BD govt will definitely have to take a look at BBS and ground it institutionally far more, especially if they want to slowly improve their credit rating score to investment grade.

The current dissonance (10 billion export discrepancy etc) cannot be allowed to continue if BD economic stats (incl GDP) are to become more credible for investors, including its own, read my replies here:

Post in thread 'Bangladesh Economy'

Jul 7, 2024

Yes, this is the biggest question. India could do those reforms because it has institutional democracy. I mean, without somewhat free and fair election there never going to be basic form of accountability in our cultural setting. Because current ruling party acting and feel like they are in it for life, so they can do whatever they want. The sheer level of looting and mismanagement is mind blowing. And now those are paying off. And state has to carry the burden.

And you are right, a great deal of BD's national politics has been about vengeance. And it costed us dearly. And yes it's a...

• Nilgiri

• 

As for immigration (legal or illegal whatever the reality is between the two), you have to remember one thing....where and what are the wealth concentrations (mostly cities) and what is the manner of labour they attract to begin with.

Credit suisse puts Indian total wealth at 15 trillion compared to BD's 1 trillion for example:

List of countries by total wealth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So of course Bangalore + HYD is going to be different to Patna, Lucknow etc....and however Delhi, Bombay etc stack up in that spectrum too.

This has been the basis for the UN dept concerned with the matter to make its estimates in the first place along with pew global and others (rather than going with the govts and whatever propaganda seeps through there....till they develop to institutional level required for it)

And of course we are talking about the 10% top layer as to the 90% labour attraction in general....as it pertains to two countries in the <10k per capita realm to begin with.

The major supply deficits are in a different realm (that 10% layer) if you study BD's development close enough since its independence.....i.e why does it not produce the professionals in this layer to the degree it requires.....compared to labour saturation at the 90%.

Its exact same reason why you see BD medical "tourism" to India at the scale that happens, BD simply has not invested here compared to India over the timeframes at hand to grow the expertise in the first place.....its a serious supply issue and demand finds its way.

That is putting aside things like the atrocious way BJP squanders the goodwill from hridalay outreach Dr. Shetty did anyway.

India has the same labour saturation at its 90% level....and the economic consequences as well (that need massive investments to improve)....so you get friction you notice when there is reduced bargaining power from labour seeping in from BD (whatever their final number is in total) where there are suitable wealth concentrations in India.

Now what is the tradeoff from that localised lower bargaining power (from a 1% or 2% bump to the labour pool at this tier) with say the BD labour their remiting some small surplus back to BD (given they have to recirculate spending inside India for their basic immediate demands first)....that then shores up BD economy to then buy more from India in other things etc?

That kind of thing needs both countries to pull themselves up above the 10k per capita region to begin with like I explained. Arguing about the 90% vs 90% situation is really splitting hairs over something here as both are in same bucket.

BJP just makes all of this worse as they prefer a purgatory situation with no clarity (and use the hot burner back burner effect), as to them its all about making some political windfall in end, rather than doing concrete rational stuff, fixing issues, communicating well to those that mean well for India and so on.

 

[agidest]

Anybody who crosses the border will.be shot. This is non-negotiable. If BGB takes bribes and is involved in smuggling, they will.be shot as well.

If Bangladesh instead.of fixing the problem wants to escalate, India is more than ready.

 

[agidest]

Its simple.
Any Indian bullet that hits Bangladeshi soil, should be repaid by atleast equal number of bullets hitting Indian soil.
Indian troops setting foot on the ground in BD, should be shot immidiately.

Unfortunately in a border conflict it will be mainly bengalis on both sites which will be harmed. But BD cannot continue have this stupid tolerant behaviour while BSF acts like drunk amateurs.

Let Indian try that on the Chinese and Pakistani border and watch the response from the other side.

And since there are big mouthed imbecils who still have fantasies about Bangladeshi immigrants in India: send back home every non-bengali Indian immigrant. Let those immigrants enjoy their loud mouthed Bharti media. Maybe RSS can feed them nice salaries.

You must be mistaken. Not only does India regularly shoot Pakistanis trying to cross the border, our forces cross over and kill terrorists in Pakistani territory. You have an inflated opinion and don't know how we deal with Pakistanis.

If any Bangladeshi tries to cross over to India, they will recieve a bullet.

 

[itsanufy]

@itsanufy


In 2009 the new AL India-friendly government estimated that there were 500,000 illegal Indians working in BD.

With the boom of the 2010s then that number must have gone up substantially.

BD'shis are not so pathetic to make a big solemn dance about some desperate Indians that had to move to BD illegally to make an income.

Are there some illegal BD'shis in India? Probably.

Is it significant? No and no-one in their right mind would go from a BD that has less hunger to try to live in a more hungry neighbour. No logic whatsoever.

Maybe it makes some Indians feel good that they are a source of illegal immigrants but India is far too poor and hungry to be attractive to anyone.

500000 is huge number and it should be taken care immediately.
But I doubt any figures from the AL govt.
Normally I visit at least once a year to BD, sometimes more.
I am yet to meet anyone. In India there are BD colonies and its open.

Last few months at least three four cases of illegal BD being caught in India. Some well known publications confirmed it.
But i haven't seen any reputed sources from BD confirming that illegal Indians were caught in BD.

 

[itsanufy]

Yah well that is different topic to BJP incompetence, agenda and its politics. i.e their gain w.r.t keeping issue on hot-burner and then back burner without fixing it (say on simple security basis with use of UAV drone surveillance and proper response teams rather than flexing about 19th century fence tech when the areas are hard to fence to begin with).

The new BD govt will definitely have to take a look at BBS and ground it institutionally far more, especially if they want to slowly improve their credit rating score to investment grade.

The current dissonance (10 billion export discrepancy etc) cannot be allowed to continue if BD economic stats (incl GDP) are to become more credible for investors, including its own, read my replies here:

Post in thread 'Bangladesh Economy'

Jul 7, 2024

Yes, this is the biggest question. India could do those reforms because it has institutional democracy. I mean, without somewhat free and fair election there never going to be basic form of accountability in our cultural setting. Because current ruling party acting and feel like they are in it for life, so they can do whatever they want. The sheer level of looting and mismanagement is mind blowing. And now those are paying off. And state has to carry the burden.

And you are right, a great deal of BD's national politics has been about vengeance. And it costed us dearly. And yes it's a...

• Nilgiri

• 

As for immigration (legal or illegal whatever the reality is between the two), you have to remember one thing....where and what are the wealth concentrations (mostly cities) and what is the manner of labour they attract to begin with.

Credit suisse puts Indian total wealth at 15 trillion compared to BD's 1 trillion for example:

List of countries by total wealth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So of course Bangalore + HYD is going to be different to Patna, Lucknow etc....and however Delhi, Bombay etc stack up in that spectrum too.

This has been the basis for the UN dept concerned with the matter to make its estimates in the first place along with pew global and others (rather than going with the govts and whatever propaganda seeps through there....till they develop to institutional level required for it)

And of course we are talking about the 10% top layer as to the 90% labour attraction in general....as it pertains to two countries in the <10k per capita realm to begin with.

The major supply deficits are in a different realm (that 10% layer) if you study BD's development close enough since its independence.....i.e why does it not produce the professionals in this layer to the degree it requires.....compared to labour saturation at the 90%.

Its exact same reason why you see BD medical "tourism" to India at the scale that happens, BD simply has not invested here compared to India over the timeframes at hand to grow the expertise in the first place.....its a serious supply issue and demand finds its way.

That is putting aside things like the atrocious way BJP squanders the goodwill from hridalay outreach Dr. Shetty did anyway.

India has the same labour saturation at its 90% level....and the economic consequences as well (that need massive investments to improve)....so you get friction you notice when there is reduced bargaining power from labour seeping in from BD (whatever their final number is in total) where there are suitable wealth concentrations in India.

Now what is the tradeoff from that localised lower bargaining power (from a 1% or 2% bump to the labour pool at this tier) with say the BD labour their remiting some small surplus back to BD (given they have to recirculate spending inside India for their basic immediate demands first)....that then shores up BD economy to then buy more from India in other things etc?

That kind of thing needs both countries to pull themselves up above the 10k per capita region to begin with like I explained. Arguing about the 90% vs 90% situation is really splitting hairs over something here as both are in same bucket.

BJP just makes all of this worse as they prefer a purgatory situation with no clarity (and use the hot burner back burner effect), as to them its all about making some political windfall in end, rather than doing concrete rational stuff, fixing issues, communicating well to those that mean well for India and so on.

The old PDF is open. Please search for a profile Kalu Miah. He penned something in the same line of what you said. interesting read.
Bangladeshis are most welcome in India. I have never seen a law biding Bangladeshi is treated badly.
But open border is very dangerous. It will create a massive law and order problem for both the countries. It can done using technology as well.

My only point we being a sovereign country, lets respect the border and act lawfully.

 

[Alter_Ego]

You must be mistaken. Not only does India regularly shoot Pakistanis trying to cross the border, our forces cross over and kill terrorists in Pakistani territory. You have an inflated opinion and don't know how we deal with Pakistanis.

If any Bangladeshi tries to cross over to India, they will recieve a bullet.

Yes and your forces do regular patrol to the Mars where they kill martian terrorists.

Is there anything you super duper forces cant achieve?

 

[Alter_Ego]

500000 is huge number and it should be taken care immediately.
But I doubt any figures from the AL govt.
Normally I visit at least once a year to BD, sometimes more.
I am yet to meet anyone. In India there are BD colonies and its open.

Last few months at least three four cases of illegal BD being caught in India. Some well known publications confirmed it.
But i haven't seen any reputed sources from BD confirming that illegal Indians were caught in BD.

Its your notorious media feeding you castles in the sky. In reality they are indians from impoverished sres eho happen to speak bengali or bengali like language.

 

[Joe Shearer]

500000 is huge number and it should be taken care immediately.
But I doubt any figures from the AL govt.

This is among the lower figures on record, in various places, most deemed to be authentic.