Federal cabinet gives nod to imposition of emergency in KP; summary sent to president

[Goenitz]

So why didn't it work out in 1971. Why couldn't this "mighty" military establishment from all ethnic representations save Pakistan's unity in East Pakistan?

According to the military, the only variable was distance. They don't consider new-age weapons, tactics, etc., like in the Ukrainian theatre. Also, the same distance argument can backfire, as "if the enemy is in your range, so are you".

I am not sure how Iran is hurt if the Houthis are not successful. However, Iranians will not shy away from using TTA/TTP if Pakistan is damaging them in Yemen. They had allied with the US against Iraq and Afghanistan.

Then we will have our entire Western border on fire. Still, GHQ will say the only reason we lost in 71 was distance.

 

[Forsvaret]

Yes, Pakistan is very fragile. Too fragile for any political party to hold it together. And the Pakistani military, which has the ethnic representations from all of Pakistanis and the military which comes from mostly poorer segments of the society, is the one and only line of defense for Pakistan.

Then how come this "only" line of defense for Pakistan completely collapsed back in 1971 & let the Eastern part of country to disintegrate into Bangladesh?

 

[Meengla]

According to the military, the only variable was distance. They don't consider new-age weapons, tactics, etc., like in the Ukrainian theatre. Also, the same distance argument can backfire, as "if the enemy is in your range, so are you".
I am not sure how Iran is hurt if the Houthis are not successful. However, Iranians will not shy away from using TTA/TTP if Pakistan is damaging them in Yemen. They had allied with the US against Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then we will have our entire Western border on fire. Still, GHQ will say the only reason we lost in 71 was distance.

Good post but the last sentence is problematic: It was the distance which cost Pakistan the then East Pakistan and it is the distance which has kept India's Punjab from becoming an independent Khalistan. Geography matters a lot.
BTW, I don't cry about the 'loss' of East Pakistan. We were never meant to be one country. I wish Bangladesh 'Good luck from a distance'.

 

[Goenitz]

Yes, Pakistan is very fragile. Too fragile for any political party to hold it together. And the Pakistani military, which has the ethnic representations from all of Pakistanis and the military which comes from mostly poorer segments of the society, is the one and only line of defense for Pakistan.

Was it successful in 71?
Is it in Balochistan? Where the CM is even below a pawn?
OK, IK was an adulterer! So are many Western leaders! If all the other lot is holier than IK, what have they achieved for Pakistan?
Who invited Ashwariya? Have you read Hamood's report? Do you know current and former Punjab CMs stories? Including Khar, CCPO Lahore, Raza Dar?

 

[SteppeWolff]

Yes, Pakistan is very fragile. Too fragile for any political party to hold it together. And the Pakistani military, which has the ethnic representations from all of Pakistanis and the military which comes from mostly poorer segments of the society, is the one and only line of defense for Pakistan.

Thankfully that's not true. Tens of millions of Pakistanis are patriotic to the flag. We don't need some mere institution to hold the line. Thousands of Pashtuns and Baloch serving in civilian aman lashkars and militias have died fighting the enemies of state, they didn't need the go ahead of some institution a lot of times. Same is happening in Bannu nowadays. But clearly your time in US has disconnected you from the reality or is y'alls white tower in Karachi is just too far from the frontier regions for y'all to know

 

[Forsvaret]

BTW, I don't cry about the 'loss' of East Pakistan. We were never meant to be one country.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah (founder of original Pakistan in 1947) must be turning in his grave listening to "patriots" like these.

 

[Blain2]

Battling domestic political issues is VASTLY different from bulldozing popularly elected government of a highly volatile province.

Do you really think Pashtuns of KP already feeling insulted by the flame baiting statements of PML N politicians in recent days won't be extremely insulted that the same setup with full support of Fauj demolished their own elected government in their own province?

You don't throw petrol at a fire and then complain why you have a wildfire now

Is this the first time this has happened? And why is the exception only for KPK and Pakhtuns? What about the supporters or other ruling/governing parties back in the following cases:

1994 in NWFP
1998-1999 Sind
2009 in Punjab
2013 in Balochistan

The above are from 90s onwards. Governor rule/emergency has been imposed quite a few times in the years prior too.

 

[Meengla]

Was it successful in 71?
Is it in Balochistan? Where the CM is even below a pawn?
OK, IK was an adulterer! So are many Western leaders! If all the other lot is holier than IK, what have they achieved for Pakistan?
Who invited Ashwariya? Have you read Hamood's report? Do you Ccurrent and former Punjab's CMs stories?

I don't cry about the 1971. We were not meant to be one nation. There is not even a 'B' in 'Pakistan'. Best of luck to Bangladesh--from a distance. And from a tourism POV, I'd rather go to India than BD: India has high mountains and all four seasons at least. Not that I want to go to India.

Your darling Imran Khan professes nothing less than a Riyasat e Medina and yet disowns his illegimate child and yet you are trying to draw his comparisons with the Mother Piddar Azad liberal societies of the West? Next, Imran murders someone on the street and you'd compare him with the 'inner city' ghetto violence in America?

 

[Forsvaret]

I don't cry about the 1971. We were not meant to be one nation.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah (founder of original Pakistan in 1947) must be turning in his grave listening to "patriots" like these.

This is a natural outcome of "arguments" when the country is run by an "institution" instead of those who created the country in the first place aka civilian politicians of Pakistan Movement.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Look at the celebrations of the people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

 

[Meengla]

Is this the first time this has happened? And why is the exception only for KPK and Pakhtuns? What about the supporters or other ruling/governing parties back in the following cases:

1994 in NWFP
1998-1999 Sind
2009 in Punjab
2013 in Balochistan

The above are from 90s onwards. Governor rule/emergency has been imposed quite a few times in the years prior too.

Every ethnic group in Pakistan has been whooped! A nation does that to the violent groups. India brutally crushed the Khalistanis in the 80s, if you want to look that up or the Americans crushed the Southerners during the Civil War. As I said some pages ago, MQM, which represents we Urdu Speakers / Mohajirs, also claims a 'genocide' in the 90s but the Mohajirs remain patriotic Pakistanis and not strapping on suicide vests and blowing themselves up! Give it to the Afghans to blow themselves up for their 'Cause'. It is almost fashionable and disgusting.

 

[Forsvaret]

Look at the celebrations of the people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

Source: The same people responsible for imposing Military Rule aka Governor Raj in KPK. Very "convincing".

 

[Blain2]

It is unfortunate that you see any criticism of Army as a PTI related thing. Army was doing all these things even before PTI was launched by them. Alpha Bravo Charlie jab bana tha tab IK ko 1 seat bhi nahi milti thi.

Look man, I am not some pure civilian PTI-supporter. I have friends and relatives in the military branches too. I know what their job is and what they're supposed to do. WO KHUD TANG HAY! The Venn Diagram overlap you speak of has become larger and larger. Even PAF is not safe from it now.



And when this overlap increases, do you know what the real loser is? Effectiveness and professionalism. Fighting ability, decision making. Half the military resources diverted to political games. Iss me kisko faida hora hay exactly? Kyu nahi delegation hori tasks ki institution wise? Why does one institution need to grab everything? Mene apni aankho se dekha hay, Corps Commander Lahore holding meeting in middle of day to sort out of issues of plots in new phases of DHA. What was his Indian counterpart doing at the same exact hour I wonder? Probably thinking about killing his enemies.

I know that Defence.PK is an Army-first forum but people need to decide. Is it Pakistan they love or the Army? Are they aware that Army is just one aspect of what makes a nation?

Many countries have soldiers willing to die for it to the last man. Only a handful have soldiers who say let me rule the country as well and they're all shitholes. Its simple math.

Then we get fed this propaganda that every civilian is anti-state and only Faujis are sincere to country. It is ridiculous and unfair.

Fair critique but I think a bit laced with your political frustration. Why has all of this become an issue for you now only? Plot conversations were going on in the GHQ in the 80s and 90s. They are part of the compensation structure that the government itself has put in place.

When I used the Venn diagram analogy, the point I was making is that not the entire army is involved in politics. Its the usual ISI internal wing involved in political engineering and the people at the very top orchestrating. The vast majority of the officers run away from this (as you yourself say "woh tang hain").

I do wish things were more transparent and we have less contention amongst the masses but unfortunately I don't see any resolution in the near term.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Is this the first time this has happened? And why is the exception only for KPK and Pakhtuns?

Due to the prevailing sentiment among the people of KPK.

 

[Blain2]

So why couldn't this "mighty" military establishment from all ethnic representations hold Pakistan together back in 1971?

Because military power and that too "power projection" has its limitations when the part to be held together is 1300 miles apart.