Federal cabinet gives nod to imposition of emergency in KP; summary sent to president

[Oscar]

Come on...that is a very reductive view of the whole situation.

IK or PTI or the public just one day woke up and decided to be how they are? It was a completely self made decision?

You put IK in jail and every sane leader either bribed, threatened, or jailed. And when the third tier leadership who were students of some no name university in 2010 become someone's in the party, then you complain WTF is PTI doing.

It's like you keep on beating a guy with your buddies and then complain why doesn't he get up.

Public discourse has made IK into some demi god or something and anyone can attach whatever label they want to him at their convenience.

How hard is it to admit that it's the same old crap that we've been seeing since 50 odd years going on again, and the issue isn't really PTI or IK?

10 years later it'll be Abdul Rauf and not IK...

But the assumption is that I disagree with you on what has occurred - I absolutely agree with you. I just don't give IK a clean cult worship chit just as I don't give one to the establishment.


You PoV is "If you are not with me, you're with the other side".
That is the difference - myopic consistent focus to box a narrative to validate your own.

Whereas I am agreeing that the establishment-military-elite created this PTI monster today just as it did with Awami League years ago using the same dusted playbook.

Does not mean I wont call the monster an innocent puppy.

 

[Oscar]

No don't skirt over it. It doesn't matter little. The state willingly INDOCTRINATED entire frontier belt. Why do you disregard it? Is this against the current narrative? Punjab and Sind didn't even have the fraction of that scale. So no shit they have a radicalism issue cause the state FAILED to rehabilitate them.

Do Ops, that's what they have been doing for last 20 years without a result. But at least be professional and have some planning so kids don't die in snow?

Ok, agreed - What is your professional approach to planning ops that both guarantees survival of children - and also guarantees that TTP will not find out or have ample time to prepare for the op.

Take all realistic considerations of the ground that you are intimately aware of to plan out a fool proof idea.

 

[Watandar]

Punjab also did not let terrorists of all hue and color move inland from a neighboring country.

Second, while it was unfortunate that some families suffered, they were spared from the fighting. The GoP will have to do better than before but do you really think that the TTP tashkeels magically operate from within KPK?

Obviously some people are abetting and supporting them and that causes problems for the larger population in the province.

Punjab is the one province that is nurtured and protected by the Establishment, as it serves as their power base. You are comparing it to abused step child KP ??

It was KPK, and within KPK the tribal areas, who were selected for heavy indoctrination and utilization as cannon fodder for 40 plus years in Afghanistan. It is also KPK that has borne the brunt of the blowback, 1980 to present day. This was done against the wishes of the leadership and people of KPK.

The military Ops that you are lusting for have been repeatedly conducted in KP since 2002, so that Establishment can destroy some of their own jehadi Frankensteins. They have been clumsy and extremely destructive, shattering entire villages and towns and causing its inhabitants to live as Internally Displaced Persons in their own country. All the promises of rebuilding these towns and villages remain unfulfilled.

Even more importantly, all the promises that Establishment no longer believes in jehadi militancy as a tool also proved lies. These militants were allowed to return post 2014 and settle once again in the country. Remind me what happened to Ehsanullah Ehsan or Muslim Khan , the TTP spokespersons ?

Who installed the Taliban regime in Kabul, not once but TWICE ?

The Pakistan army, police, paramilitary are all deployed at the border and all over KP. Tell me how these militants can regularly move in and out of Pakistan ?

Please take responsibility rather than always blaming the bloody civs.

Well then, the founder of the New Pakistan is the same as the others, right. But I am not aware of such cowards in other corrupt politicians who disowns their illegitimate progenies while wearing 'Islam' up their sleeves. Even General Zia ul Haq, who too wore 'Islam' grab, had better morality.

Maybe a scoundrel, opportunist hypocrite Imran who disowns his own child is even worse than a Mr. 10%: One steals the money while the other is a morally bankrupt hypocrite lying through his teeth on daily basis. At the least, Imran should not have used religion as his disguise. We had enough of that from General Zia ul Haq.

Your envy of Mr Imran Khan is really something else. Take a look at the miserable political record of the Establishment , whom boomer uncles keep giving endless chances since 1957.

 

[El Sidd]

El Sidd Bhai Allah ka shukar hay bas. Ap bhi moqa dain apko bhi tribal mehmaan nawazi dikhaye rora. The common folks are great people unlike what alot of the folks in this forum say

Alhumdulilah have been blessed to have experienced hospitality from all subcultures in Pakistan. One can say that one feels it hit more given the dire economic situation in KPK and Balochistan.

The economic conditions tied intrinsically to the security situation hampers the showcasing of local culture and goldmine of talent. It's also a fair reflection if others want you to rise above and beyond stereotypes.

 

[Blain2]

Use your brain, kid. Securing borders 100% is not possible even for the US. Security at the borders is always a best-effort defense that stills leaves some possibility of terrorists sneaking into the country.

The local police and CTD operators are supposed to deal with the terrorists who somehow get into Pakistan. The KPK provincial government effectively stalled the CTD and tied the hands of police to leave them at the mercy of terrorists.

Tumhari aqal to charne gai hoi hay.

At one point, forget about the police and the army. The single biggest responsibility to
secure own homes and villages and towns rests with the people who live there.

If they feel they need not report such Afghans and TTP cadres finding refuge amidst them, what can any force do?

 

[Blain2]

Punjab is the one province that is nurtured and protected by the Establishment, as it serves as their power base. You are comparing it to abused step child KP ??

It was KPK, and within KPK the tribal areas, who were selected for heavy indoctrination and utilization as cannon fodder for 40 plus years in Afghanistan. It is also KPK that has borne the brunt of the blowback, 1980 to present day. This was done against the wishes of the leadership and people of KPK.

The military Ops that you are lusting for have been repeatedly conducted in KP since 2002, so that Establishment can destroy some of their own jehadi Frankensteins. They have been clumsy and extremely destructive, shattering entire villages and towns and causing its inhabitants to live as Internally Displaced Persons in their own country. All the promises of rebuilding these towns and villages remain unfulfilled.

Even more importantly, all the promises that Establishment no longer believes in jehadi militancy as a tool also proved lies. These militants were allowed to return post 2014 and settle once again in the country. Remind me what happened to Ehsanullah Ehsan or Muslim Khan , the TTP spokespersons ?

The Pakistan army, police, paramilitary are all deployed on the border and all over KP. Tell me why these militants regularly move in and out of Pakistan ?


Your envy of Mr Imran Khan is really something else. Take a look at the miserable record of the Establishment , whom boomer uncles keep giving endless chances.

The establishment is comprised of Punjab and KP predominantly.

We don't "lust" over mil-ops as if we were some heartless zombies baying for the blood of our brethren. I am not the one suffering at the hands of the TTP bastards. Yet the ones living in KPK are and like usual, you clearly have nothing to offer expect the finger pointed at everyone in Pakistan.

Read my posts above and earlier. It was not "Punjab" that designed the Afghan strategy. It was always our Pakhtun hands that decided to recruit for (in jihad-preaching madaris all along NFWP/FATA) and incubate the Taliban project in Afghanistan. The rest of the establishment went along with this because it was felt that the ones who know Afghanistan and its internal dynamics are the ones closest to it. Now that it has completely backfired goes to show why defeat never has any fathers.

To your point about Army, police and paramilitary deployed all over KP and not being able to prevent militants moving in and out is explained very easily and that is because they are abetted and supported by some people/groups in KPK. Unless I post a section of men every hundred meters, which is an impossibility for "my" army and police even if the entire nafri was deployed, this cannot be sorted out by this one solution only. As such, the responsibility to defend the home-turf rests on the locals just as much as the security forces. At a minimum, why are the TTP bastards being allowed and given refuge in KPK?

"Remind me what happened to Ehsanullah Ehsan or Muslim Khan , the TTP spokespersons ?"

I don't know about Ehsanullah, however MK is with his Creator.

 

[prothought]

At one point, forget about the police and the army. The single biggest responsibility to
secure own homes and villages and towns rests with the people who live there.

If they feel they need not report such Afghans and TTP cadres finding refuge amidst them, what can any force do anything?

Yes, I understand your point, sir. However, please note that the fear is the biggest weapon that terrorists use against the local population. There have been reports from KPK and Balochistan where terrorists would come to the doors of locals and ask for food (and in some cases shelter). Locals know even the hide outs of terrorists in the area. But they would never dare reporting their presence due to the fear of terrorists' retaliation. That makes sense too. Security forces would be there for only a short time and then leave. Terrorists keep hiding/roaming around and remerge after the security forces leave.

It's only recently that locals decided to pick up their arms to fight those terrorists. I am sure they would have started informing the security forces of terrorists' hide outs too.

Even some elements of KPK police deserted the force for fighting against terrorists. That means those police personnel somehow found their hands tied while fighting against terrorism in their areas. That really exposes how the PTI government was colluding with TTP terrorists.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Right now with the recent transfer of armored vehicles to KP police from Islamabad police inventory.... Whole of PTI twitter is lying that these were ordered by KP govt which is a lie.

KP's order was of Dragoon and some Mohafiz APCs. Both of which are being delivered steadily. Remaining order is expected to be delivered by End of November or Early December as per the original delivery dates. ( The latter is about a month old when KP govt made those claims )

 

[Blain2]

Yes, I understand your point, sir. However, please note that the fear is the biggest weapon that terrorists use against the local population. There have been reports from KPK and Balochistan where terrorists would come to the doors of locals and ask for food (and in some cases shelter). Locals know even the hide outs of terrorists in the area. But they would never dare reporting their presence due to the fear of terrorists' retaliation. That makes sense too. Security forces would be there for only a short time and then leave. Terrorists keep hiding/roaming around and remerge after the security forces leave.

It's only recently that locals decided to pick up their arms to fight those terrorists. I am sure they would have started informing the security forces of terrorists' hide outs too.

Even some elements of KPK police deserted the force for fighting against terrorists. That means those police personnel somehow found their hands tied while fighting against terrorism in their areas. That really exposes how the PTI government was colluding with TTP terrorists.

I understand that. Coercion has a part to play, but that reinforces my point about the need to take strict kinetic action against the TTP and its abettors. The very fact that the behavior of the locals is being shaped by terrorists means the government needs to step in and relieve this threat (as was done in Swat).

The military leadership, under NACTA, has been begging that once they conduct clearance ops, the police and local governance needs to step in and eliminate the vacuum but this has not happened consistently.

I think you and I are converging on where the weakness has been.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

As I have mentioned this before that emergency/KPK Governor Raj will not fix anything. I have a feeling that KPK Governor Raj will be the last nail in the coffin of this setup.

 

[Blain2]

Right now with the recent transfer of armored vehicles to KP police from Islamabad police inventory.... Whole of PTI twitter is lying that these were ordered by KP govt which is a lie.

KP's order was of Dragoon and some Mohafiz APCs. Both of which are being delivered steadily. Remaining order is expected to be delivered by End of November or Early December as per the original delivery dates. ( The latter is about a month old when KP govt made those claims )

Silly political point-scoring aside, what real difference will these vehicles make? Has the army waited to go into the fight because it does not have enough Maxxpro vehicles available?

No, it has gone into the battle with TTP in its unprotected Toyota Hi-Lux. The intent is what is important, means will becomes available. However, if the very heart is not in the fight and the preferred option is to appease, then the fight is already lost.

 

[Blain2]

As I have mentioned that emergency/KPK Governor Raj will not fix anything. I have a feeling that KPK Governor Raj will be the last nail in the coffin of this setup.

I don't think anyone is expecting any miracles...perhaps some security stabilization.

From 260 attacks year to date, there has to be some improvement.

 

[Cipher212]

You seem to be really mental case. It's not Pashtuns. They have already taken up arms against terrorists.

It was the terrorist allies who were running KPK government.

They effectively threw the helpless people of KPK in front of terrorist dogs.

Please don't expose your stupidity any more. You have already fallen too low in the vallies of disgrace.

You have not yet provided any reasonable proof that KPK government was supporting TTP. I know that this is just your claim and opinion but then I can also claim you are not even Pakistani.

If you're going to insist on this PTI = TTP rhetoric at least provide us some proof.

 

[The Sundance Kid]

Sindh is next By the way, you all seem to be overlooking that.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

I don't think anyone is expecting any miracles...perhaps some security stabilization.

The establishment seems to have a remarkably short memory and an even shorter attention span. In chasing short-term political gains, it keeps sacrificing long-term stability. First, create unnecessary chaos by imposing Governor’s Rule or an emergency, then conveniently emerge as the ultimate savior to fix the very mess they helped create. It’s like setting your own house on fire and then demanding a medal for bringing a bucket of water.

The problem is that miracles and incompetence are two very different things. Unfortunately, some people seem to confuse the two and expect the public to applaud every time they clean up their own mess.