Green light for Eurofighter from Germany for the Turkish Air Force

[fitpOsitive]

Since Germany is selling everyone everything now, I think Pakistan should also try to get the new generation guns from them now.
Next topic may be : Leopard for India.

 

[RedBeard]

BAE develop AN/ASQ-239 EW suite for F-35 with American input and has a manufacturing plant in Texas. Understand the difference.

“As Lockheed Martin’s electronic warfare integrator for all F-35 aircraft, we’re committed to equipping our customers with advanced capabilities that help them conduct their missions,” said Deborah Norton, vice president of F-35 Solutions at BAE Systems. “Under this collaborative agreement, we will work closely with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to enhance the capability of our fully integrated EW system – heightening pilots’ situational awareness and helping them evade, engage and defeat modern threats.”
Link



SPEWS-II is AN/ALQ-178 (V)5+ in American terms - it is good but old 2003 tech. You continue to forget for some reason or conveniently overlook facts to hype things you have no knowledge of.

World leader in EW technology?

As the UK and other European NATO members attempt to adapt their air forces to better meet the threat of wider Russian military aggression in the coming years, airborne electromagnetic warfare (EW) is a key area where non-US capabilities are in worryingly short supply across the Alliance.
Link

Dependency on the US​

Currently, NATO’s air forces are heavily dependent on US Air Force (USAF) and US Navy (USN) aircraft to provide both stand-off and stand-in jamming against a high-end threat like Russia, although several other countries’ fighter fleets have impressive ECM capabilities already for close-range self-defence. NATO’s primary stand-off jamming capability is provided by USN EA-18G Growler aircraft and the USAF EC-130H Compass Call, which is now being replaced by the new EA-37B. SEAD support is also provided by the Tornado electronic combat/reconnaissance (ECR) aircraft of the Italian Air Force and German Air Force, as well as the F-16CM ‘Wild Weasels’ of the USAF’s 480th Fighter Squadron in Germany. However, in terms of EA systems, these Cold War-era aircraft only carry self-protection jamming equipment that is increasingly obsolescent against the more modern Russian threats if used without cover from the more powerful US stand-off systems like the EA-18G and EA-37B. The Tornado ECRs are also only available in small numbers, and the majority of the USAF F-16CM fleet is based in South Korea and Japan. It is notable that in almost any high-end NATO SEAD/DEAD exercise, USN EA-18Gs perform the majority of the EA support, since they offer by far the greatest capability in their class.
However, the USN attempted to withdraw its land-based EA-18G units from the European theatre in mid-2022 to bolster its presence in the Indo-Pacific and Middle East. The Growler is a critical part of the Carrier Air Wing force structure, and demand for its capabilities greatly outstrips the number of squadrons available to deploy at any given time. That attempt did not immediately lead to withdrawal, but relying on US EA support as a lynchpin of European NATO SEAD/DEAD capabilities remains a high-risk posture. One of the most likely scenarios in which Russia might risk direct conflict with a NATO member is if the US is drawn into either a serious military standoff or an actual conflict with China in the Indo-Pacific. In any clash over Taiwan or in the South China Sea, airborne EA assets would be some of the most in-demand in the entire US arsenal, meaning few if any EA-18G Growlers or USAF EA-37B Compass Call aircraft would be made available to respond to a Russian threat in Europe during a concurrent crisis. This means a much greater burden of the high-end EW effort would fall on European capabilities than in any previous post-Cold War conflict.
Link

The F-35 is also a potent airborne EW asset, and one that has been purchased by a large number of NATO members including the UK, the Netherlands, Norway, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Poland, Germany and Czechia. Despite being primarily designed for low-observable strike and SEAD/DEAD operations, its APG-81 radar and advanced mission systems enable highly effective ECM for self-defence and also provide potent stand-in jamming and potentially limited stand-off jamming capabilities against both airborne and surface threats. Even a few F-35s can greatly enhance the survivability of not only their own formation but also allied assets operating alongside them as part of composite air operations. However, the F-35 still faces tactical limitations that make it difficult to generate sustained EW effects for more than short bursts, and pilots potentially risk compromising their position to hostile sensors when emitting in this way. More advanced EA capabilities that formed part of the intended Block 4 upgrade have in many cases been delayed until at least 2029 by issues with the electrical power generation capacity of the existing F-135 engine and hardware manufacturing bottlenecks. Most countries that have bought F-35s also lack the capacity or rights to modify or create their own mission data sets, and instead rely on the US for their mission data and threat library updates.
However, this does not fully apply to the UK since it is part of the Australian, Canadian and United Kingdom Reprogramming Laboratory (ACURL), which enables it to generate UK-specific mission data. Beyond the ACURL for its F-35B fleet, the UK has several national airborne EW development and procurement programmes. For stand-in jamming effects, the RAF is exploring options for stand-in jamming payloads for its Autonomous Collaborative Platform (ACP) programme, and continues to fund development work on a stand-in jamming variant of the MBDA SPEAR 3 miniature cruise missile called SPEAR EW. Potent ECM capabilities are also a core feature of the new ECRS Mk2 AESA radar, which is being procured to eventually be retrofitted onto the 40 Tranche 3 aircraft in the RAF Typhoon fleet. However, SPEAR EW has not actually been ordered so far, and the ECRS Mk2 has been developed very slowly compared to AESA radar development programmes for comparable fighters. On current timeframes, RAF Typhoons with the new radar are unlikely to be in service on the frontlines before the late 2020s. The threat outlook in Europe, therefore, would seem to suggest that allocating increased funding and priority to whichever of these existing programmes can offer the most rapid path to procurement and introduction to service is something that should be seriously considered. Given the lack of funding so far for ECRS Mk2 radar sets for the remaining 77 RAF Tranche 2 Typhoons, urgent updates to the capability of their existing ESM and Defensive Aid Sub-System (DASS) suites should also be examined – especially if novel software techniques could improve capability faster than hardware upgrades planned but not yet funded within the Typhoon LTE construct.
Link

SIT DOWN, man.

"and the ECRS Mk2 has been developed very slowly compared to AESA radar development programmes for comparable fighters."

Yes, the British are catching up. But the US is not sitting idle and developing even more powerful and advanced EW systems than before all in-house.

You Europeans make big claims but are nothing without American support. The US is the undisputed champion in developing advanced hardware and military stuff. The US provides much-needed business and input to BAE because the company will be bankrupt if left to UK finances.

So what if they have a plant in Texas the technology still belongs to the company in this case not to Texas or Americans.

 

[RedBeard]

Since Germany is selling everyone everything now, I think Pakistan should also try to get the new generation guns from them now.
Next topic may be : Leopard for India.

What do you mean by they sell everyone everything?

 

[eIsQengiz]

BAE develop AN/ASQ-239 EW suite for F-35 with American input and has a manufacturing plant in Texas. Understand the difference.

“As Lockheed Martin’s electronic warfare integrator for all F-35 aircraft, we’re committed to equipping our customers with advanced capabilities that help them conduct their missions,” said Deborah Norton, vice president of F-35 Solutions at BAE Systems. “Under this collaborative agreement, we will work closely with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to enhance the capability of our fully integrated EW system – heightening pilots’ situational awareness and helping them evade, engage and defeat modern threats.”
Link



SPEWS-II is AN/ALQ-178 (V)5+ in American terms - it is good but old 2003 tech. You continue to forget for some reason or conveniently overlook facts to hype things you have no knowledge of.

World leader in EW technology?

As the UK and other European NATO members attempt to adapt their air forces to better meet the threat of wider Russian military aggression in the coming years, airborne electromagnetic warfare (EW) is a key area where non-US capabilities are in worryingly short supply across the Alliance.
Link

Dependency on the US​

Currently, NATO’s air forces are heavily dependent on US Air Force (USAF) and US Navy (USN) aircraft to provide both stand-off and stand-in jamming against a high-end threat like Russia, although several other countries’ fighter fleets have impressive ECM capabilities already for close-range self-defence. NATO’s primary stand-off jamming capability is provided by USN EA-18G Growler aircraft and the USAF EC-130H Compass Call, which is now being replaced by the new EA-37B. SEAD support is also provided by the Tornado electronic combat/reconnaissance (ECR) aircraft of the Italian Air Force and German Air Force, as well as the F-16CM ‘Wild Weasels’ of the USAF’s 480th Fighter Squadron in Germany. However, in terms of EA systems, these Cold War-era aircraft only carry self-protection jamming equipment that is increasingly obsolescent against the more modern Russian threats if used without cover from the more powerful US stand-off systems like the EA-18G and EA-37B. The Tornado ECRs are also only available in small numbers, and the majority of the USAF F-16CM fleet is based in South Korea and Japan. It is notable that in almost any high-end NATO SEAD/DEAD exercise, USN EA-18Gs perform the majority of the EA support, since they offer by far the greatest capability in their class.
However, the USN attempted to withdraw its land-based EA-18G units from the European theatre in mid-2022 to bolster its presence in the Indo-Pacific and Middle East. The Growler is a critical part of the Carrier Air Wing force structure, and demand for its capabilities greatly outstrips the number of squadrons available to deploy at any given time. That attempt did not immediately lead to withdrawal, but relying on US EA support as a lynchpin of European NATO SEAD/DEAD capabilities remains a high-risk posture. One of the most likely scenarios in which Russia might risk direct conflict with a NATO member is if the US is drawn into either a serious military standoff or an actual conflict with China in the Indo-Pacific. In any clash over Taiwan or in the South China Sea, airborne EA assets would be some of the most in-demand in the entire US arsenal, meaning few if any EA-18G Growlers or USAF EA-37B Compass Call aircraft would be made available to respond to a Russian threat in Europe during a concurrent crisis. This means a much greater burden of the high-end EW effort would fall on European capabilities than in any previous post-Cold War conflict.
Link

The F-35 is also a potent airborne EW asset, and one that has been purchased by a large number of NATO members including the UK, the Netherlands, Norway, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Poland, Germany and Czechia. Despite being primarily designed for low-observable strike and SEAD/DEAD operations, its APG-81 radar and advanced mission systems enable highly effective ECM for self-defence and also provide potent stand-in jamming and potentially limited stand-off jamming capabilities against both airborne and surface threats. Even a few F-35s can greatly enhance the survivability of not only their own formation but also allied assets operating alongside them as part of composite air operations. However, the F-35 still faces tactical limitations that make it difficult to generate sustained EW effects for more than short bursts, and pilots potentially risk compromising their position to hostile sensors when emitting in this way. More advanced EA capabilities that formed part of the intended Block 4 upgrade have in many cases been delayed until at least 2029 by issues with the electrical power generation capacity of the existing F-135 engine and hardware manufacturing bottlenecks. Most countries that have bought F-35s also lack the capacity or rights to modify or create their own mission data sets, and instead rely on the US for their mission data and threat library updates.
However, this does not fully apply to the UK since it is part of the Australian, Canadian and United Kingdom Reprogramming Laboratory (ACURL), which enables it to generate UK-specific mission data. Beyond the ACURL for its F-35B fleet, the UK has several national airborne EW development and procurement programmes. For stand-in jamming effects, the RAF is exploring options for stand-in jamming payloads for its Autonomous Collaborative Platform (ACP) programme, and continues to fund development work on a stand-in jamming variant of the MBDA SPEAR 3 miniature cruise missile called SPEAR EW. Potent ECM capabilities are also a core feature of the new ECRS Mk2 AESA radar, which is being procured to eventually be retrofitted onto the 40 Tranche 3 aircraft in the RAF Typhoon fleet. However, SPEAR EW has not actually been ordered so far, and the ECRS Mk2 has been developed very slowly compared to AESA radar development programmes for comparable fighters. On current timeframes, RAF Typhoons with the new radar are unlikely to be in service on the frontlines before the late 2020s. The threat outlook in Europe, therefore, would seem to suggest that allocating increased funding and priority to whichever of these existing programmes can offer the most rapid path to procurement and introduction to service is something that should be seriously considered. Given the lack of funding so far for ECRS Mk2 radar sets for the remaining 77 RAF Tranche 2 Typhoons, urgent updates to the capability of their existing ESM and Defensive Aid Sub-System (DASS) suites should also be examined – especially if novel software techniques could improve capability faster than hardware upgrades planned but not yet funded within the Typhoon LTE construct.
Link

SIT DOWN, man.

"and the ECRS Mk2 has been developed very slowly compared to AESA radar development programmes for comparable fighters."

Yes, the British are catching up. But the US is not sitting idle and developing even more powerful and advanced EW systems than before all in-house.

You Europeans make big claims but are nothing without American support. The US is the undisputed champion in developing advanced hardware and military stuff. The US provides much-needed business and input to BAE because the company will be bankrupt if left to UK finances.

Sorry, you've got to get over it, stop pretending that the US is stronger, but as far as doubts go, their prime is over.

 

[fitpOsitive]

What do you mean by they sell everyone everything?

Previously they were hesitant to sell certain things to everyone. Now it's not the case.

 

[hyperman]

Previously they were hesitant to sell certain things to everyone. Now it's not the case.

No its still the case.

Its b/c of the changing dynamics of the region, that pressure has been placed on them by the UK and US with regards to OKing the eurofighter.

Even then we don't know the terms under which they will allow the sale.

 

[MMM-E]

Previously they were hesitant to sell certain things to everyone. Now it's not the case.

Eurofighter is nothing to do with German technology
Its based on British technology including Engine

Germany , Italy and Spain can not develop Eurofighter without The UK
but The UK can develop even TEMPEST 6th gen Fighter alone

The UK taking lead on possible Eurofighters for Türkiye
and other corsortium countries Italy , Spain approved the sale of the Eurofighter to Turkiye

btw Turkiye is not anyone , Turkiye is a major NATO member

even Kuwait , Qatar , S.Arabia bought Eurofighter
why not NATO member Turkiye ?

 

[LeGenD]

So what if they have a plant in Texas the technology still belongs to the company in this case not to Texas or Americans.

I did not claim that BAE is American company. I was addressing misleading claims of member MMM-E. There is a difference between posting valuable information and making questionable claims. He was continously claiming that the UK is the undisputed leader in developing EW systems even though independent report(s) and even Turkish report(s) identify the US and Russia having more expertise in developing EW systems. The UK can certainly develop advanced machines and EW systems but there are many areas where the UK benefits from American input and tech sharing. Even Eurofighter Typhoon has many foreign parts. The days of the British developing every tool in-house are long gone.

Do you think that BAE develops an EW suite for an American jet fighter without American input and testing requirements? BAE having a manufacturing plant in Texas - this is not a small thing because BAE is not manufacturing consumer goods there but sophisticated military technology with American input.

“As Lockheed Martin’s electronic warfare integrator for all F-35 aircraft, we’re committed to equipping our customers with advanced capabilities that help them conduct their missions,” said Deborah Norton, vice president of F-35 Solutions at BAE Systems. “Under this collaborative agreement, we will work closely with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to enhance the capability of our fully integrated EW system – heightening pilots’ situational awareness and helping them evade, engage and defeat modern threats.”
Link

This is different from BAE directly selling a military system to a country with end-user terms. The US keeps BAE in business and have a say in who can benefit from BAE systems. The US keeps the UK afloat on many counts - a bilateral relationship that some take for granted.

I am pointing out facts and calling a spade a spade like it should be. The forum is full of misleading propaganda flows from certain quarters unfortunately.

 

[MMM-E]

I did not claim that BAE is American company. I was addressing misleading claims of member MMM-E. There is a difference between posting valuable information and making questionable claims. He was continously claiming that the UK is the undisputed leader in developing EW systems even though independent report(s)

If I say something on PDF then I have always official source

Its not my personal claim ... but from the BAE Systems


Electronic warfare leadership

As the world leader in electronic warfare, BAE Systems remains unsurpassed in the field across the electromagnetic spectrum. Our state-of-the-art technology maximizes mission survivability for the warfighter, providing end-to-end capabilities to counter current and emerging threats.

Our superior knowledge and more than 60 years of experience has given us the largest market footprint for electronic warfare (EW) technology, and we continue to outpace market growth. We are, for example, creating the electronic warfare suite for the F-35 , and are responsible for F-15EX EW modernization efforts, helping to enhance and extend the aircraft’s survivability and mission capability for the future.


Offical source

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/electronic-warfare-leadership

 

[MMM-E]

Not USA but The UK has developed the first EW technology in the World during WW2 against Germany


The BAE Systems have more than 60 years of great experience in EW technologies

And American Fighter Jets F-15EX , F-22 , F-35 were equipped with British technology EW Suite from the BAE Systems


even the first Radar in the World has been developed by The UK in 1935
The UK has great technologies in the radar and electronic warfare fields

 

[LeGenD]

Its based on British technology from the BAE Systems

Within the scope of the SPEWS-II Project, the part of the System validation studies carried out at BAE Systems facilities in the United States was completed in 2015. Subsequently, the System integration Laboratory and test systems located at BAE Systems facilities were brought to Turkiye ASELSAN facilities

after 2019 , total of 59 CCIP modernized F-16C were quipped with SPEWS-II EW Suite

Greek F-16s didn't have this technology ... VIPER modernization offers EW Suite to Greek F-16s


and now ASELSAN develops superior FEWS EW Suite for the KAAN Fighter Jet and F-16 OZGUR modernization

Also Aselsan HAVASOJ stand off jammer combine many different electronic warfare capabilities on a single Aircraft like Radar and Communication electronic warfare systems

Hellenic Air Force only can dream about these technologies
View attachment 75666

Do you have Alzheimer's? I disclosed something to you in here. But your tendency to forget and overlook shared information is truly something.

The AN/ALQ-178(V)5+ System, which is software-controlled and can be reprogrammed in Turkey thanks to the source codes provided by the USA, detects, analyzes and identifies ground and air threat radar signals, warns of threats, determines the information to be displayed on the screen and which threat will be jammed by what jamming technique.
Link

Please tell me how is that possible if BAE is developing EW systems in-house and selling them to the US with end-user terms. Read this post and the Turkish link I shared above. There is much that you do not seem to know about.

If I say something on PDF then I have always official source

Its not my personal claim ... but from the BAE Systems


Electronic warfare leadership

As the world leader in electronic warfare, BAE Systems remains unsurpassed in the field across the electromagnetic spectrum. Our state-of-the-art technology maximizes mission survivability for the warfighter, providing end-to-end capabilities to counter current and emerging threats.

Our superior knowledge and more than 60 years of experience has given us the largest market footprint for electronic warfare (EW) technology, and we continue to outpace market growth. We are, for example, creating the electronic warfare suite for the F-35 , and are responsible for F-15EX EW modernization efforts, helping to enhance and extend the aircraft’s survivability and mission capability for the future.


Offical source

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/electronic-warfare-leadership

The world leader forgot to disclose this:

“As Lockheed Martin’s electronic warfare integrator for all F-35 aircraft, we’re committed to equipping our customers with advanced capabilities that help them conduct their missions,” said Deborah Norton, vice president of F-35 Solutions at BAE Systems. “Under this collaborative agreement, we will work closely with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to enhance the capability of our fully integrated EW system – heightening pilots’ situational awareness and helping them evade, engage and defeat modern threats.”
Link

RUSI report tells the big picture:

Airborne Electromagnetic Warfare is Critical for NATO’s Airpower Edge

Long overlooked in mainstream defence circles as a ‘niche’ capability reserved for deep specialists, airborne electronic warfare capabilities are an increasingly essential component in NATO’s ability to deter and defeat Russian aggression in Europe.

www.rusi.org

The US is world leader in developing EW systems. BAE is but an Ameican pet in British cloths.

 

[UKBengali]

@LeGenD : No one says that BAe is better than US companies like Northrop Grumman
but that they are on a similar level.

It is like how Rolls Royce is able to match GE and P&W in engine technology.

The point is that since BAe had massive input into the development of the EW system for F-35 then it stands to reason it can use this base to make an even better system for the next tranche Typhoon as they claim they are doing.

Why are you arguing this when facts and logic suggest that BAe is telling the truth here?

Yes the F-35 will eventually get either a comparable or maybe better upgrade but the fact is that by the late 2020s, the Typhoon will have the best radar(Leonrado's 3rd AESA fighter radar) and EW system out of any western fighter jet.

 

[MMM-E]

The AN/ALQ-178(V)5+ System, which is software-controlled and can be reprogrammed in Turkey thanks to the source codes provided by the USA,

Because F-16 is an American technology Fighter Jet and need source codes to equip F-16 with British technology AN/ALQ-178(V)5+ EW suite

You can not add anything to F-16 Fighter Jet without American permission and source codes



Official source

SPEWS-II PROJESİ - Türk Silahlı Kuvvetlerini Güçlendirme Vakfı

Proje kapsamında, Hv.K.K.lığımızın envanterinde yer alan F-16C Blok-50 uçaklarında kullanılmak üzere Elektronik Harp (EH) kendini koruma sistemi tedarik edilmektedir.

tskgv.org.tr

SPEWS-II Project

Within the scope of the project, an Electronic Warfare (EW) self-protection system is being procured for use on F-16C Block-50 Aircraft in the inventory of our Air Force Command

The SPEWS-II system consists of a radar warning receiver and RF jammer and was jointly developed by ASELSAN and BAE Systems.

Its mission is to perform the functions of detecting, identifying, jamming and deceiving threat radars by working in harmony with other avionics and countermeasure release systems on the platform.

All tests related to the system have been successfully completed and the warranty period activities of the aircraft, which have been installed as a whole with the supplied system units, have started.


I care about only official sources
I dont care about unofficial defense websites and your sources always from unofficial defense websites and

 

[LeGenD]

Not USA but The UK has developed the first EW technology in the World during WW2 against Germany


The BAE Systems have more than 60 years of great experience in EW technologies

And American Fighter Jets F-15EX , F-22 , F-35 were equipped with British technology EW Suite from the BAE Systems


even the first Radar in the World has been developed by The UK in 1935
The UK has great technologies in the radar and electronic warfare fields

The US is the British Empire and its logical successor. BAE develop EW suites for those aircraft with American input. Accept the reality.

 

[MMM-E]

The US is the British Empire and its logical successor. BAE develop EW suites for those aircraft with American input. Accept the reality.

Nobody cares about input
We are talking about technology and its British technology on American Fighter Jets F-15EX , F-22 , F-35

accept the reality