HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[hyperman]

Depends on the requirements. For pakistan JF 17 was the lone choice in that era. New F 16 were not coming and china was the only partner.
Our situation was not that desperate and we had luxury of time.

Thats not it, J-10s were available for purchase off the shelf and the Russians/Ukrainians post 91 were willing to sell to anyone.

JF-17s first flew in 2003, around that time the US was heavily engaged in the war in Afghanistan and was providing quite a bit of equipment, so F-16s would not have been an issue.

No the Jf-17s was chosen not b/c nothing else was available, but b/c Pakistan needed cheap fighters to replace J-7s, which is the same reason the Tejas was developed, to replace the bulk Mig-21s.

Its just that the JF-17 program was managed properly and the Tejas wasn't, not a matter of "we had the luxury of time" you didn't have a luxary of time, and you don't have the luxury of time. India was/is losing fighters to attrition and squadron numbers are falling, b/c of the failures of the Tejas program.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Coming back to topic Tejas
Those 83 mark 1a are arriving now as we speak using square catagory B engines
As soon as the new engines the ramp up to 12 then 16 then 24 fighters will start meaning all 83 delivered by 2030
At this point mark 2 enters service
Amca five years later some cross over between Amca and mark 2

There is clear plan in place with fighters
Radars
Weapons
Low end 4th generation to high end 4th generation to fifth generation
Its far cry from 100% imports from Russia and France etc

Stop living in delusions.

India plans to crank up Tejas production to stem IAF’s depletion in fighters | India News - The Times of India

India News: India plans to increase Tejas jet production with deliveries of GE aero-engines starting March. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) aims for 20 jets per year,

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Source of news is Indian and of Feb 6, 2025.

GE has now promised to begin the delivery next month, with 12 engines to be delivered in 2026, and 20 every year thereafter, another official said.

They haven't announced a number for 2025. In 2026, it's 12 engines, and then 20 engines per year after that. Right now HAL has order of 83 Tejas MK1A and 97 follow-on is almost final. So, how is HAL going to produce the number of jets they've committed to and can you share simple which year HAL will deliver how many Jets?

Year	Engine expected to receive from GE	No. of Tejas MK1A to be produced.
2025
2026
2027
2028
2029
2030
2031
2032
2033
2034
2035
2036
2037
2038
2039
2040

I dare you to Just make a data in this format and share it here if you are able to do it. I am sure you will run away.

P.S. Don't try to divert topic and just share the data first.

 

[harpy1]

Big orders to support HAL production capacity - FlightGlobal

Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) expects two big orders to boost its production backlog, as it also continues to update and support legacy types. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) expects two big orders to boost its production backlog, as it also continues to update and support legacy types. The company...

www.flightglobal.com

Flight global clearly states production ramp up on three sites with all 83 delivered in 3.5, years

Btw the plants are ready for assembly three sites

This fact not hearsay

 

[onlinpunit]

Thats not it, J-10s were available for purchase off the shelf and the Russians/Ukrainians post 91 were willing to sell to anyone.

JF-17s first flew in 2003, around that time the US was heavily engaged in the war in Afghanistan and was providing quite a bit of equipment, so F-16s would not have been an issue.

No the Jf-17s was chosen not b/c nothing else was available, but b/c Pakistan needed cheap fighters to replace J-7s, which is the same reason the Tejas was developed, to replace the bulk Mig-21s.

Its just that the JF-17 program was managed properly and the Tejas wasn't, not a matter of "we had the luxury of time" you didn't have a luxary of time, and you don't have the luxury of time. India was/is losing fighters to attrition and squadron numbers are falling, b/c of the failures of the Tejas program.

In early 2000 the urgent priority for IAF was SU 30 MKI. So full focus was in them.

 

[hussain0216]

Thats not it, J-10s were available for purchase off the shelf and the Russians/Ukrainians post 91 were willing to sell to anyone.

JF-17s first flew in 2003, around that time the US was heavily engaged in the war in Afghanistan and was providing quite a bit of equipment, so F-16s would not have been an issue.

No the Jf-17s was chosen not b/c nothing else was available, but b/c Pakistan needed cheap fighters to replace J-7s, which is the same reason the Tejas was developed, to replace the bulk Mig-21s.

Its just that the JF-17 program was managed properly and the Tejas wasn't, not a matter of "we had the luxury of time" you didn't have a luxary of time, and you don't have the luxury of time. India was/is losing fighters to attrition and squadron numbers are falling, b/c of the failures of the Tejas program.

In Feb 2019, when Pakistan shot down a Indian Mig 21 in air combat, this Indian failure was directly due to the failure of the Tejas program

Here we are 6 years later and they are still waiting for Tejas

The first three flying Tejas 1a apparently have old engines and can only be used for basic flying until they get the proper engine

Thus far in 2025 they have about 7 more Tejas ready to receive a engine, but apparently it was supposed to be much more

And only a handful of engines will be delivered this year and only 12 in 2026 and that's IF their are no more delays or issues



India will be lucky if they make 20 Tejas over the next three years

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Big orders to support HAL production capacity - FlightGlobal

Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) expects two big orders to boost its production backlog, as it also continues to update and support legacy types. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) expects two big orders to boost its production backlog, as it also continues to update and support legacy types. The company...

www.flightglobal.com

Flight global clearly states production ramp up on three sites with all 83 delivered in 3.5, years

Btw the plants are ready for assembly three sites

This fact not hearsay

83 delivered in 3.5 years and HAL are going to put Khota in place of engine. @harpy1 dare to fill this sheet and share it.

Year	Engine expected to receive from GE	No. of Tejas MK1A to be produced.
2025
2026
2027
2028
2029
2030
2031
2032
2033
2034
2035
2036
2037
2038
2039
2040

 

[Ak01]

83 delivered in 3.5 years and HAL are going to put Khota in place of engine. @harpy1 dare to fill this sheet and share it.

Year	Engine expected to receive from GE	No. of Tejas MK1A to be produced.
2025
2026
2027
2028
2029
2030
2031
2032
2033
2034
2035
2036
2037
2038
2039
2040

You waste your time trying to talk anything of logic or reason with @harpy1 . He is literally an illiterate or a troll, he has nothing of value to say, with his general input typically being nothing other than to piss on any reasonable and rational discussion with retardedness

 

[Nilgiri]

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Tejas Production Capacity: [20:24]Tejas Engine Supply: [21:35]GE Engine Delivery: [21:56]HAL Performance: [23:53]

12 engines this year (so I guess 12 aircraft produced given the engines are the chokepoint).

GE will have resolved issues (also explained why) on their side by next year....after which the production capacity (leveraging private sector) will be 24+ per year and expected to be 30 around 2027.

I guess lets see. @Oscar

 

[hyperman]

In Feb 2019, when Pakistan shot down a Indian Mig 21 in air combat, this Indian failure was directly due to the failure of the Tejas program

Here we are 6 years later and they are still waiting for Tejas

The first three flying Tejas 1a apparently have old engines and can only be used for basic flying until they get the proper engine

Thus far in 2025 they have about 7 more Tejas ready to receive a engine, but apparently it was supposed to be much more

And only a handful of engines will be delivered this year and only 12 in 2026 and that's IF their are no more delays or issues



India will be lucky if they make 20 Tejas over the next three years

To be fair, the engine thing is not their fault, thats GE's fault. Their fault is project management of the Tejas overall as well as not putting the Tejas MK1 into mass production and then retrofitting upgrades as they were made available.

Instead what they did was instead of delivering on a Minimum Viable Product that was defined at the very beginning of the project. They instead devolved into Mission Creep where they kept sending their engineering team back to the drawing map to improve the jet instead of just putting it into production, no matter how "bad" it was.

There are countless other things they did, but those are the main elements.

Choosing 4 different sources of foreign suppliers is another one, not making strategic decisions on which suppliers to rely on and which ones to cut out is another,

Deciding from the get go to build everything inhouse in the first attempt was also a foolish matter, as we saw the disaster with the Kaveri engine delaying the Tejas. You can list a dozen elements.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

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Tejas Production Capacity: [20:24]Tejas Engine Supply: [21:35]GE Engine Delivery: [21:56]HAL Performance: [23:53]

12 engines this year (so I guess 12 aircraft produced given the engines are the chokepoint).

GE will have resolved issues (also explained why) on their side by next year....after which the production capacity (leveraging private sector) will be 24+ per year and expected to be 30 around 2027.

I guess lets see. @Oscar

In my view, the issue isn't HAL, but GE. The Tejas production rate bottleneck is the GE engine supply. India can produce as many Tejas aircraft as it receives engines, but definitely no more than that. Even if India had a production line capacity of 100 jets per year, they couldn't produce more than the number of jet engines they receive. The only options are to engage GE and force them to go out of their way to supply more engines, or to develop the Tejas with an alternate engine like the RD-33, M88, or EJ200, and have the Tejas with two different engines. This can be achieved by leveraging GE's interest, perhaps by offering to purchase more engines for the next order of 97 Tejas Mk1A aircraft if they can give reliable guarantee to supply all engine as per indian timelines, or by simply developing those 97 jets with a different engine.

 

[Trailer23]

We can't leave out Culki Sharma...

She's been branded as the 'Troll Queen' when it comes to Pakistan. Quite frankly speaking..., you can't be considered a troll if you're reading off a teleprompter.

Anyways...

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​

 

[Oscar]

Ignoring typical jingoism and pointless salt rubbing - this was what stood out to me.

Im not sure of the Gentleman’s true links to the program or otherwise but @Joe Shearer also pointed out such QC issues YEARS ago.
Even from subcontractors.


The goal isn’t to just berate HAL or idiots harping trying to derail the thread.
But rather given the baggage but also the change - what would be the shortest path forward to make fixes?

@AjayGhatak @Faceless @agidest

 

[Oscar]

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Tejas Production Capacity: [20:24]Tejas Engine Supply: [21:35]GE Engine Delivery: [21:56]HAL Performance: [23:53]

12 engines this year (so I guess 12 aircraft produced given the engines are the chokepoint).

GE will have resolved issues (also explained why) on their side by next year....after which the production capacity (leveraging private sector) will be 24+ per year and expected to be 30 around 2027.

I guess lets see. @Oscar

I have a theory regarding that ACM video -
A weak one but humor me -
It was not accidental. Sometimes when regular channels are blocked or unresponsive you take asymmetric approaches

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have a theory regarding that ACM video -
A weak one but humor me -
It was not accidental. Sometimes when regular channels are blocked or unresponsive you take asymmetric approaches

What an incredibly incompetent interviewer.

Love the way the Chairman displays humble pride in HAL's glass cockpit capability. It came in through a very indirect route, since HAL moved at a lumbering pace, and no foreign technically competent organisation was prepared to move at that glacier pace.

The IJT story is a disgrace. Period.
The Chairman was a very junior person 25 years ago. Against the earlier monsters who made everyone suffer, he is a pygmy. That is both a good and a bad thing.

GHI.

 

[Oscar]

What an incredibly incompetent interviewer.

Love the way the Chairman displays humble pride in HAL's glass cockpit capability. It came in through a very indirect route, since HAL moved at a lumbering pace, and no foreign technically competent organisation was prepared to move at that glacier pace.

The IJT story is a disgrace. Period.
The Chairman was a very junior person 25 years ago. Against the earlier monsters who made everyone suffer, he is a pygmy. That is both a good and a bad thing.

GHI.

Ironically - the process with which the jet across the border was put together had an odd result of generally competent people taking charge.

The dear friends to the north had their lumbering traditionalists and so did the PAF - however, there was a crop of competent people under the two nations who in joint “fed-up-ness” decided to passively collaborate and push things through and letting the heads squabble about who was not following protocol. This would go on until incompetence and sheer inexperience did surface again in the mid 2000s that led to souring of relationships a little - but by then there was enough knowledge transferred to keep some momentum going.

All was not well in that development cycle in terms of quality but thanks heavens for American education in maintenance when it came to the F-16 because those ingrained standards (purely out of repetition that won against desi Jugar mentality) trickled into how the inspection process for the build line came in.

That being said - incorrect wiring - not testing systems under all conditions before writing off(leading to everything from blank screens mid flight to buttons not doing anything) ensued until outside help was sought - fingers pointed internally - “Sir I took him to task” statements made - eventually resolved things.

Perhaps the idea balked at by a certain old known bigoted fellow on the Indian forum may not be a bad idea - integrate the IAF - the best ones- into the HAL signoff process.

Groans will echo - legs will quiver - but a good jet will finally get to be effectively put into smoother production