HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

harpy1 said:
I think India should follow suit downgrade political meetings postpone military deals and start talking to alternative supplier be it
Russia
Israel
France
Etc
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What exactly are the Jews going to do for your TEJAs ?

I get the whole Russia & France approch. Both are loyal to India & want their Business.

And as much as the hatred for Muslims both !srael & India have in common - I fail to see how those baby killers will be of any use in developing an engine.

...and please don't give references of:

1. Bet Shemesh Engines Ltd.
2. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)
 
Trailer23 said:
What exactly are the Jews going to do for your TEJAs ?

I get the whole Russia & France approch. Both are loyal to India & want their Business.

And as much as the hatred for Muslims both !srael & India have in common - I fail to see how those baby killers will be of any use in developing an engine.

...and please don't give references of:

1. Bet Shemesh Engines Ltd.
2. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)
Click to expand...

Engines can be acquired by
Russia
France
UK
Sweden
Japan

If needed you just need the dollars
But Yasser is correct Tejas will need to be curtailed to just 100 planes and order long term two hundred engines now for avoidance of embargo in future ...

Any future Indian built fighters powers by the Safran engine next generation which France and india signed to recently

Remember china was completely reliant on Russian engines until.five years ago
 
Yasser76 said:
Am old enough to remember back in the day many Indians online (maybe the fathers of some Indian members on here) boasting India will have made 200 Tejas in service by now and be exported, JF-17 will only be produced in limited numbers, will be delayed due finances and lack of expertise

That entire paragraph turned out to be true, expect you need to switch names of the planes....
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Agreed. I remember looking with envious eyes at a pic of 2 LCA’s on the production line when FC-1 was not even properly on paper. Is the US giving any explanation for these repeated engine delays?
 
harpy1 said:
Engines can be acquired by
Russia
France
UK
Sweden
Japan
Click to expand...
Again, i'm not certain what Engines you're referring to.

I already said yes to the obvious candidates.
Russia & France.

UK (Rolls Royce) is another option, sure.

But where exactly is Sweden & Japan coming into the fold?

First of all..., I don't know what Engines the Japanese make...

Sweden..., why because they make the Volvo Engines that power their SAAB Gripen. Those are basically Licenced by GE - you know the same Engines you guys bought from US.

Did you ever hear the story 'bout how the US screwed Pakistan over the F-16? How silly of me - ofcourse you have. You guys have reminded us of that past just like '71 & 93,000 blah-blah-blah.

Well now, welcome to the club. In the past decade ya'll got pretty cozy with the US, huh. Hope you guys get your pot of gold or engines at the end of the Rainbow.

Looks like Delays again...
 
harpy1 said:
Engines can be acquired by
Russia
France
UK
Sweden
Japan

If needed you just need the dollars
But Yasser is correct Tejas will need to be curtailed to just 100 planes and order long term two hundred engines now for avoidance of embargo in future ...

Any future Indian built fighters powers by the Safran engine next generation which France and india signed to recently

Remember china was completely reliant on Russian engines until.five years ago
Click to expand...

Fighter jet engines aren't exactly one size fits all thing.

Russia = RD-33/RD-93 2 would require redesign of Tejas air-frame or the engine.

France = SNECMA M53 (Mirage-2000/2000-5) would also require redesign of Tejas air-frame. There is no time for that. SNECMA M88 (Rafale) would be the same case.

UK = EJ200 (Eurofighter) is closer to GE 404 and 414 but would still require rework of either the engine or the air-frame. Besides, the sale would require approval not just from UK but also Germany, Italy, and Spain.

Sweden = Volvo RM12 (Gripen) is a variant of GE F404. This might work but would need approval from the US as it incorporates US-origin items.

Japan = There doesn't seem to be any fighter jet engine available for exports. IHI XF5 is closer to F404 and perhaps could be modified but it is a technology demonstrator.

In short, even if any of these are available either they would need modifications or Tejas air-frame would need to be redesigned. There isn't anytime for that. F404 and F414 have been adapted for Tejas and deviating from them simply means Tejas will not be available anytime soon, or perhaps never.

India will have to go with France. But that collaboration would not yield anything in near term, whereas Tejas requires engine now. Also, with France gearing itself up for next-gen fighter programme I wounder if Safran, which is the prime contractor for developing engine for FCAS, would be able to commit or timely develop an AMCA-specific engine. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Safran's facilities based in India are as yet equipped with developing or producing complete engines.
 
SABRE said:
There never was much of a mil-mil cooperation to begin with. All those agreements remain mostly "agreements." India has also stayed away from big ticket American offensive capabilities - Apache helicopters being exception, of course.

That will not be helpful in the case of Tejas. Failure to secure GE engines would very likely spell the end for this project. Russian RD-33/RD-93 or French SNECMA engines would require redesigning the air frame. This will exponentially delay the delivery, if redesign ever comes to fruition. The aircraft by then might be completely obsolete. Israel does not have an independent fighter jet engine program so its redundant in this case.

Politically, the more India collaborates with Russia - especially in spite of the US - the more US would seek to isolate it. If it comes to it, the US can stop Israel from cooperating with India also, especially if the equipment Israel is supplying has US items in/on them.

Safest bet is collaborating with France to develop new engines. But it would not be for Tejas, rather AMCA. Also, consider that while India might eventually get a quality engine, it would come at high cost - France always milks countries with no other options - and the US will likely also dash India's hopes for a global role.
Click to expand...

Tejas program is almost completely cooked simply because they are now reliant on a engine for the Tejas, Tejas 2 and maybe even AMCA from the U.S and once they enter that arrangement REGARDLESS of any agreement the U.S can start playing games, making demands etc etc


So India has two choices, continue with U.S engines and become trapped or don't and screw multiple programs


Then it will be back to expensive Rafael's and maybe more su30s whilst finding a partner for AMCA engine

Indian military procurement policy at the moment is as messed up as it's foreign policy
 
hussain0216 said:
Tejas program is almost completely cooked simply because they are now reliant on a engine for the Tejas, Tejas 2 and maybe even AMCA from the U.S and once they enter that arrangement REGARDLESS of any agreement the U.S can start playing games, making demands etc etc


So India has two choices, continue with U.S engines and become trapped or don't and screw multiple programs


Then it will be back to expensive Rafael's and maybe more su30s whilst finding a partner for AMCA engine

Indian military procurement policy at the moment is as messed up as it's foreign policy
Click to expand...

Engines are critical to all defence projects, and they are the crown jewels that countries do not want to give away for that reason. I dont see how any country will partner with India to give away the crown jewels of jet engine manufacturing and design.

Turkieye had access to the best of what the west would offer, on the basis of Turkieye being a NATO country, yet we can see how hard it has been for Turkieye to build its own engines for its own products.

India is stuck right now, given they have decided to build their AMCA around the American engines. There is time to redesign to use off the shelf from other countries for sure, but it will add more redesign work that will had months if not a year or to two to the programme as of now.
 
India needs to persist and support the Tejas programs. In fact, the reflexive urges of the Indian military and political establishment to gut Tejas development for quick import solutions has undermined the Indian aerospace industry.

While India’s political class has wavered with Tejas, China has not only mastered 4th gen fighters but are now making 6th generation fighters.

India must create a ‘ do or die’ moment for Tejas and stop foreign imports which kill indigenization efforts. Imagine if India relied on space rocket imports rather than supporting ISRO?
 
Faceless said:
Latest Images from Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence Visit to HAL
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View attachment 142311

LA-5033
LA-5034
LA-5035
LT-5207 Trainer
LT-5208 Trainer
LA-5036
LA-5037
LA-5041
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Latest Images from Vishnu Som (NDTV news reporter)
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1758021314002.jpeg

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1758022183563.jpeg
I could only read the numbers from 3 of Aircrafts
1. LA-5038
2. LA-5039
3. LA-5041
4.
 
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Faceless said:
Latest Images from Vishnu Som (NDTV news reporter)
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View attachment 147112

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View attachment 147113
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View attachment 147114
I could only read the numbers from 3 of Aircrafts
1. LA-5038
2. LA-5039
3. LA-5041
4.
Click to expand...


I feel GOI is serious about pushing Tejas project. Biases aside, engines remain the core problem, and that's just half of it. The IAF would need to carryout Customer Acceptance Flights not just for the batch but the weapon systems also. Unless they already have done so, and if not, then that will cause further delays (not long though). So, Vishnu Som's "all set to be delivered" comment should be taken with the pinch of salt. Unless, of course, the aircraft are to be forcefully shoved down the IAF's throats. In the event of dissatisfaction, I suppose the IAF could utilise them as LIFT aircraft.
 
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