Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

[Ak01]

I dont get this argument at all. Like if this was PN of 90s or 2000s id agree its better to get decent strike capability in submarines in FACs than to invest limited funds in regular surface fleet but now after we started the naval expansion and made this huge commitment to the surface fleet we are suddenly just not gonna give them the AD they desperately need to have a chance surviving the brahmos storm our neighbours posses. If we really were gonna leave our fleet to die in face of that why not spend the rest of that money on smaller FACs like more azmats. They have the same AShM capability and dont even have PDMS. We could spend the rest of money on Submarine force and land based attack vectors instead.

because surface fleet is still useful, just not AS useful as subs.

the surface fleet is primarily seen as a means of securing SLOCs/escorting, the sub force will ensure nobody dares to block them, or even approach our ports/coasts. The ships carry the bare minimum needed to defend themselves, but i dont think we're being realistic if we're not expecting surface losses. But thats exactly why PN's eventual sub fleet will be far larger than its major surface combatant fleet. I dont see any 'huge' investments in the surface fleet, just the bare minimum for a modern surface combatant, that meets our needs.

 

[Ibbi32]

because surface fleet is still useful, just not AS useful as subs.

the surface fleet is primarily seen as a means of securing SLOCs/escorting, the sub force will ensure nobody dares to block them, or even approach our ports/coasts. The ships carry the bare minimum needed to defend themselves, but i dont think we're being realistic if we're not expecting surface losses. But thats exactly why PN's eventual sub fleet will be far larger than its major surface combatant fleet. I dont see any 'huge' investments in the surface fleet, just the bare minimum for a modern surface combatant, that meets our needs.

I just think its a half assed approach. It could be done better if they were just more commited to a symmetric or assymetric response to IN. One of my recommendations is litterally to procure anything other than ancient ly-80s for tughrils so they can actually do proper medium ranged AD

 

[Ak01]

I just think its a half assed approach. It could be done better if they were just more commited to a symmetric or assymetric response to IN. One of my recommendations is litterally to procure anything other than ancient ly-80s for tughrils so they can actually do proper medium ranged AD

but the problem is once again, AD is well and good, but the reality is, it will not change the equation significantly. Okay so now the Indians need to launch a missile or two more to penetrate. So what.

I think the bigger benefit here of these ships is they can create a protective, overlapping bubble over the coast, but thats about it, i see them sitting closer to the shore in conflict, guarded by SWATS while the hangors do the offensive work.

 

[hasssanali8998]

i see them sitting closer to the shore in conflict, guarded by SWATS

and our ground based SAMs

 

[Michael]

Its called " Sino defence forum " , its the only chinese one i know , @Michael probably knows a better one

Currently, there are no dedicated military-themed BBS forums operating within China.
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Nov 28, 2025

This thread is primarily in response to a request from @Pakistan Space Agency. Other users with similar needs are also welcome to participate.

Any links you can suggest I can keep an eye on? It doesn't matter if it's in Chinese language.

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• Michael
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Members Club

• 

 

[Oscar]

Iran still had access to decent Russian kit.

The point is, submarines are extremely dangerous and quiet. We've had instances where submarines were so quiet, they couldnt detect eachother and collided.

There is also operational discipline in quiet.
There is an incident that occurred recently when an Indian sub was completely "surprised" but part of the reason was Indians have not shown operational discipline which has them pretty noisy.
Ill leave it at that

 

[T80UD]

There is also operational discipline in quiet.
There is an incident that occurred recently when an Indian sub was completely "surprised" but part of the reason was Indians have not shown operational discipline which has them pretty noisy.
Ill leave it at that

It sort of makes wonder if they were being intentionally noisy to throw off the PN

 

[Oscar]

It sort of makes wonder if they were being intentionally noisy to throw off the PN

Not exactly - I did a long post on this a while back in some storied form I suppose.
https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...s-and-discussion.21640/page-2849#post-1000551

 

[kmc_chacko]

You have China to worry about, hence your expansion. The key is, you are no match for China which is only countered by the USN.

China's worries are larger than India's, it is not only US, they also need to take care of Japan, Korea & other US ally's, hence China is building up rapidly.

But, seeing vast experienced USN struggle against Iran, it will be far cry for China if they involve in conflict between India & Pakistan. Further, IN not needed to match PLAN by numbers, IN needs to maintain force level to keep China under check.

If China didn't came all out for Iran then the possibility of PLAN getting involved in PN vs IN conflict is negligent.

China will provide satellite & intelligence in real-time just like they done in recent conflict. But, outright involvement ? that's not going to happen.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China's worries are larger than India's, it is not only US, they also need to take care of Japan, Korea & other US ally's, hence China is building up rapidly.

But, seeing vast experienced USN struggle against Iran, it will be far cry for China if they involve in conflict between India & Pakistan. Further, IN not needed to match PLAN by numbers, IN needs to maintain force level to keep China under check.

If China didn't came all out for Iran then the possibility of PLAN getting involved in PN vs IN conflict is negligent.

China will provide satellite & intelligence in real-time just like they done in recent conflict. But, outright involvement ? that's not going to happen.

Well, China will not sit idle to wait India trying to disrupt China's Indian Ocean supplying route.

China will help Pakistan to be equipped with the nuclear submarines if necessary as the AUKUS proposed by the Biden administration had already beached the consent of anti-nuclear proliferation.

We have just previously discussed about the 4000 tons Type 041 with nuclear battery/AIP hybrid technology.

Imagine if Pakistan navy is armed with 12 boats of the Type 041, potentially less noisy than the regular AIP submarine but with an endurance closer to a nuclear submarine.

Also equip with the hypersonic missiles.

So it is better to keep the Indian navy under check.

 

[kmc_chacko]

the PN has 5 subs currently.

3 will remain.

8 will be inducted

5 of the fincantieri S800's will be inducted (most probably)*.

The winner (fincantieri) will then support the PN's original submarine program.

16 SSK's, all AIP equipped, supported by a longer term follow up order of more SSK's.

Sounds pretty well countered to me.

*fincanteri has a base at PMSTP alongside Damen. Only logical reason to set that up would be to provide long term support/design assistance to the PN for their platforms. S800 is a great boat, Fuel Cell AIP, sensors and systems from the U212. Oh and not to mention, the U212NFS was presented at IDEAS on offer to the Pak Navy.

The next gen sub program will build on that. Probably some of the most capable electric boats to exist will be used as the basis for the PN's submarine prog.

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Bro,

8 Hangor will be pitched against 6 scorpene + 6 Type 214

First will Pakistan able to finance for 8 S800 ? will IMF approve it ? and even if we consider 8 S800 will be procured, in other side IN is also developing 12 P76-class submarines (Indigenous)

India's 'Stealth Sub' Breakthrough: DRDO AIP Upgrade on INS Khanderi Clears Path for Indigenous Project-76

India’s DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organization) is reportedly poised to deliver its indigenously developed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) plug-in time for integration with INS Khanderi during its scheduled refit in 2026–27. INS Khanderi is the second Kalvari-class (Project-75...

www.eurasiantimes.com

IN will be countering PN subs by inducting equal numbers, but situation will change once we consider induction of Indigenous SSK, SSN & SSBN.

 

[Yasser76]

Bro,

8 Hangor will be pitched against 6 scorpene + 6 Type 214

First will Pakistan able to finance for 8 S800 ? will IMF approve it ? and even if we consider 8 S800 will be procured, in other side IN is also developing 12 P76-class submarines (Indigenous)

India's 'Stealth Sub' Breakthrough: DRDO AIP Upgrade on INS Khanderi Clears Path for Indigenous Project-76

India’s DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organization) is reportedly poised to deliver its indigenously developed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) plug-in time for integration with INS Khanderi during its scheduled refit in 2026–27. INS Khanderi is the second Kalvari-class (Project-75...

www.eurasiantimes.com

IN will be countering PN subs by inducting equal numbers, but situation will change once we consider induction of Indigenous SSK, SSN & SSBN.

Again, you are comparing PN subs entering service with an imaginary fleet of German subs that a deal has not been signed for.

I may as well just state IN will be facing 28 Hangor subs as that is the PN's follow on order? Right?

Opinions cannot be passed away as facts, even if you are an Indian.

Right now 8 Hangors are joining PN and not a single AIP sub is being manufactured anywhere (abroad or in India) for IN. That is a fact.

So yeah, 11 AIP Subs in less then one year from now is what IN face.

 

[Ak01]

Bro,

8 Hangor will be pitched against 6 scorpene + 6 Type 214

First will Pakistan able to finance for 8 S800 ? will IMF approve it ? and even if we consider 8 S800 will be procured, in other side IN is also developing 12 P76-class submarines (Indigenous)

India's 'Stealth Sub' Breakthrough: DRDO AIP Upgrade on INS Khanderi Clears Path for Indigenous Project-76

India’s DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organization) is reportedly poised to deliver its indigenously developed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) plug-in time for integration with INS Khanderi during its scheduled refit in 2026–27. INS Khanderi is the second Kalvari-class (Project-75...

www.eurasiantimes.com

IN will be countering PN subs by inducting equal numbers, but situation will change once we consider induction of Indigenous SSK, SSN & SSBN.

Once again, you didn’t bother reading.

P75I will materialise at a similar pace to PN’s original sub program.

So, it’ll be pretty evenly matched. Except, in has a coast far larger to protect and two countries to keep an eye on…

 

[Psyko70]

Bro,

8 Hangor will be pitched against 6 scorpene + 6 Type 214

First will Pakistan able to finance for 8 S800 ? will IMF approve it ? and even if we consider 8 S800 will be procured, in other side IN is also developing 12 P76-class submarines (Indigenous)

India's 'Stealth Sub' Breakthrough: DRDO AIP Upgrade on INS Khanderi Clears Path for Indigenous Project-76

India’s DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organization) is reportedly poised to deliver its indigenously developed Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) plug-in time for integration with INS Khanderi during its scheduled refit in 2026–27. INS Khanderi is the second Kalvari-class (Project-75...

www.eurasiantimes.com

IN will be countering PN subs by inducting equal numbers, but situation will change once we consider induction of Indigenous SSK, SSN & SSBN.

Again, you are comparing PN subs entering service with an imaginary fleet of German subs that a deal has not been signed for.

I may as well just state IN will be facing 28 Hangor subs as that is the PN's follow on order? Right?

Opinions cannot be passed away as facts, even if you are an Indian.

Right now 8 Hangors are joining PN and not a single AIP sub is being manufactured anywhere (abroad or in India) for IN. That is a fact.

So yeah, 11 AIP Subs in less then one year from now is what IN face.

How can someone forget that indian navy 6+6 wont all be going to face Pakistan. India against pakistan has "size of sea to protect" vs "Pakistan 11 subs and most of them AIP" Issue.

Indian currently has 19 submarines and India has to keep some free for china. so I dont think India will be able to field 6 submarines against Pakistan let alone 10 or 12.

For china India needs to have at least 20 submarines and then whatever else for Pakistan.

 

[Yasser76]

How can someone forget that indian navy 6+6 wont all be going to face Pakistan. India against pakistan has "size of sea to protect" vs "Pakistan 11 subs and most of them AIP" Issue.

Indian currently has 19 submarines and India has to keep some free for china. so I dont think India will be able to field 6 submarines against Pakistan let alone 10 or 12.

For china India needs to have at least 20 submarines and then whatever else for Pakistan.

Not just that, 12 of their current subs are rust buckets.