India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[Pradotlc]

J-10C is currently the spear-head for the PAF. It has better self-protection suite, more powerful engine, and better radar. But still JF-17C should have at least a few kills to its credit for the 7th of May fighting because PAF reportedly used ABC kill chain.

I think, JF-17C is very capable fighter jet but what exactly happened on that fateful night is still under the wraps. You cannot just claim about Thunder's performance in that fighting until missing details are brought into public domain.

The fact, that the enemy was not able to shoot down even a single Jf-17 is no less of a feat by itself. Don't forget that Indians had one of the best western planes (i.e. Rafale) having one of the best self-protection suite, and one of the best AD system (S-400) pitted against PAF.

it is not possible to get shot down by the Indians

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan has already offered for inventory count of its aircraft along with IAf aircraft after AP singh shamelessly claimed shooting down six PAF aircraft

IAF or Indian airforce never responded to this offer since Indian military establishment thinks presenting doctored or distorted satellite pictures is better to keep domestic audience happy and also results in less mockery as it happened in the case of AP singh claim of shooting down six aircraft

The Indians refuse to state the number of planes they lost, despite at least 4 wreckages of their frontline planes, and you expect them to show extreme transparency by presenting their inventory to confirm how much they lost?

That’s a tall ask for the Hindu nationalists.

 

[niubi]

This wasn't a measure of Rafale vs JF-17 and J-10CE though. These fighters are parts of a network.

PAF's network of platforms vastly outperformed IAF's. PAF waited until IAF fired weapons before starting air combat.

You cannot fire on another nation's military until they shoot first. Some Indians online don't seem to understand this.

As for PAF outperforming IAF by such a wide margin, well Rafale only operated as a stand alone platform. PAF has some level of networking between ZDK, J-10CE, JF-17 and HQ-9E. It's very limited capabilities compared to China's own systems but Indian platforms are almost all entirely self isolated units and acting in coordination only via radio communication of human operators.

 

[Raider 21]

The Indians refuse to state the number of planes they lost, despite at least 4 wreckages of their frontline planes, and you expect them to show extreme transparency by presenting their inventory to confirm how much they lost?

That’s a tall ask for the Hindu nationalists.

When a bully gets shit faced and smacked.........they use other means to save their remaining reputation and market an enhanced image

 

[rafale]

This wasn't a measure of Rafale vs JF-17 and J-10CE though. These fighters are parts of a network.

PAF's network of platforms vastly outperformed IAF's. PAF waited until IAF fired weapons before starting air combat.

You cannot fire on another nation's military until they shoot first. Some Indians online don't seem to understand this.

As for PAF outperforming IAF by such a wide margin, well Rafale only operated as a stand alone platform. PAF has some level of networking between ZDK, J-10CE, JF-17 and HQ-9E. It's very limited capabilities compared to China's own systems but Indian platforms are almost all entirely self isolated units and acting in coordination only via radio communication of human operators.

No ZDKs were employed in this battle. It was SAAB 2000 ERIEYEs.

Also, from this contest it shows PAF must pre-emptively take out IAF assets in the future and not worry about anything.

 

[BonPlan]

Sometimes it is not immediately clear if an aircraft was shot down...if it happens in ur enemy's territory.

A circumstantial evidence isn't always good enough to count it as a kill for certain. If the aircraft disappears off the radar...is that enough certainty to count it as shot down? If the radio goes silent and pilot doesn't respond..does that count? What if it was a result of friendly fire by enemy? Not always easy to tell right away.
Short of having the destroyed airframe falling on Pakistan's side...and especially in the fog of war it can take some time before enough evidence can emerge to be able to say with certainty.

That's how any cautious approach would work. You would initially declare the kills that you know about certainly and then change that number if required WHEN new information comes to light.

Problem : the PAF jets remained inside the pakistan territory and the indian ones ever India.

 

[Musings]

Problem : the PAF jets remained inside the pakistan territory and the indian ones ever India.

Sounds like you were monitoring it personally - supervising the reconnaissance?
Did you have a vintage glass of Cabernet Sauvignon and a few snails whilst doing this?
ffs

 

[BonPlan]

One thing is rankling me for sometime , I will appreciate if someone can clarify it ........JF 17 also carries PL 15 , how come it didn't launch any missile and have a kill to it's name

Real question is : where were the JF-17 ? all the light is on J-10, so how potent are the others?

 

[kimjongun]

it is not possible to get shot down by the Indians

this reminds me of the interview of PAF pilots in 1965 war by BBC
BBC FOOTAGE

 

[BonPlan]

Sounds like you were monitoring it personally - supervising the reconnaissance?
Did you have a vintage glass of Cabernet Sauvignon and a few snails whilst doing this?
ffs

Nothing like that. It is just what was said since.

 

[Vkdindian1]

so you wont show your inventory?..

why?

what are you afraid of ? Trump already spilled the beans

I neither decide nor have a say in these policies. I have also accepted the loss of few fighters and not standing with official Indian position in this regard.

I do consider such challenges juvenile though, because it is not about counting fighters only but also many other equipment likely to be damaged in those 80 hrs. No modern force would allow such a counting that might spill the beans on so many facets of a force and its facilities.

One more issue is with all Pak members being gung-ho ONLY about the aircraft count. Would Pakistan allow visit to the facilities bombed by India to ascertain the exact nature of damage? Some kids might jump and say yes, but Munir will give a tight slap to anyone wanting to visit those hangars and buildings attacked by India.

IAF and Indian government could be lying through their teeth about their own losses. And possibly damage to PAF aircraft and facilities too. Pakistan has a golden opportunity to be the beacon of truth and invite people to all these facilities and also count the number of fighters and AWACS etc to rub it in the face of the Indian establishment.

I have no issues with that.

Then there is this issue of Trump calling out numbers from time to time. It was 4 to 5 and then changed to 7.

I would suggest a little caution to the celebrations since Trump might turn around and say that out of 7 few are from Pakistan. It could be the ones damaged on ground. Then what? Would he still be celebrated and his statement accepted?

Hence, giving Trump the baton of truth and accepting all his statements should be a little calibrated and toned down.

Trump is Trump is Trump and that can be anybody’s nemesis.

 

[Hayabusa]

I neither decide nor have a say in these policies. I have also accepted the loss of few fighters and not standing with official Indian position in this regard.

I do consider such challenges juvenile though, because it is not about counting fighters only but also many other equipment likely to be damaged in those 80 hrs. No modern force would allow such a counting that might spill the beans on so many facets of a force and its facilities.

One more issue is with all Pak members being gung-ho ONLY about the aircraft count. Would Pakistan allow visit to the facilities bombed by India to ascertain the exact nature of damage? Some kids might jump and say yes, but Munir will give a tight slap to anyone wanting to visit those hangars and buildings attacked by India.

IAF and Indian government could be lying through their teeth about their own losses. And possibly damage to PAF aircraft and facilities too. Pakistan has a golden opportunity to be the beacon of truth and invite people to all these facilities and also count the number of fighters and AWACS etc to rub it in the face of the Indian establishment.

I have no issues with that.

Then there is this issue of Trump calling out numbers from time to time. It was 4 to 5 and then changed to 7.

I would suggest a little caution to the celebrations since Trump might turn around and say that out of 7 few are from Pakistan. It could be the ones damaged on ground.

Hence, giving Trump the baton of truth and accepting all his statements should be a little calibrated and toned down.

Trump is a Trump is a Trump and that can be anybody’s nemesis.

Fair analysis here. No complaints.

 

[Pradotlc]

I neither decide nor have a say in these policies. I have also accepted the loss of few fighters and not standing with official Indian position in this regard.

I do consider such challenges juvenile though, because it is not about counting fighters only but also many other equipment likely to be damaged in those 80 hrs. No modern force would allow such a counting that might spill the beans on so many facets of a force and its facilities.

One more issue is with all Pak members being gung-ho ONLY about the aircraft count. Would Pakistan allow visit to the facilities bombed by India to ascertain the exact nature of damage? Some kids might jump and say yes, but Munir will give a tight slap to anyone wanting to visit those hangars and buildings attacked by India.

IAF and Indian government could be lying through their teeth about their own losses. And possibly damage to PAF aircraft and facilities too. Pakistan has a golden opportunity to be the beacon of truth and invite people to all these facilities and also count the number of fighters and AWACS etc to rub it in the face of the Indian establishment.

I have no issues with that.

Then there is this issue of Trump calling out numbers from time to time. It was 4 to 5 and then changed to 7.

I would suggest a little caution to the celebrations since Trump might turn around and say that out of 7 few are from Pakistan. It could be the ones damaged on ground. Then what? Would he still be celebrated and his statement accepted?

Hence, giving Trump the baton of truth and accepting all his statements should be a little calibrated and toned down.

Trump is Trump is Trump and that can be anybody’s nemesis.

So no count ?

Ok

We will go with Trumps number

 

[TopGun786]

Real question is : where were the JF-17 ? all the light is on J-10, so how potent are the others?

They were busy smashing S-400s.

 

[NationalistPKDude132]

has anyone noticed that indian AVM never mentioned a 6 aircraft