India Targets Six-Carrier Naval Fleet, Says Defence Minister

[Pioneer]

Atleast they know how to use them.

Indian Navy has not only blockaded East Pakistan but West Pakistan too . That too, when Pakistan had complete US support and US Navy 7th fleet was on its way to save it.

That is something that China has never been able to achieve vis-a-vis Taiwan, which is less than 80 miles away from it.

Indian Navy has 45 operational Mig 29k in it's air arm.

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I'm sorry to tell you This can only prove that Pakistan is weak. It cannot prove that you know how to use an aircraft carrier.

Indian aircraft carriers rarely launch carrier based aircraft. Even Indian aircraft carriers do not have nighttime takeoff and landing capabilities. It may also be possible. But very rarely.

Indian aircraft carriers can only target weak countries.

@Jaeger The Taiwan issue is the cause of the CCP. Not the reason for the Chinese Navy. Thank you. Oh. For the first time, an Indian aircraft carrier was seen taking off and landing carrier-based aircraft at night. But I heard that the Indian aircraft carrier did not leave Indian ports for more than 2 years. It's true?

@Cryptonian The EMALS testing of Chinese aircraft carriers has been completed. You can ask @Deino specifically.

 

[ohyea]

Well unlike China, not only has India used an aircraft carrier operationally in a war. Indian Navy has actually won the wars it has participated in.

Didn't you guys lose half your submarine crew, just last year.

55 Chinese Sailors Feared Dead in Submarine Incident - The Statesman

Tragedy strikes as 55 Chinese sailors are feared dead in a submarine incident in the Yellow Sea, with a oxygen system failure reported.

www.thestatesman.com

55 Chinese sailors feared dead after submarine 'caught in trap'

EXCLUSIVE Officially, China has denied the incident took place. It also appears Beijing refused to request international assistance for its stricken submarine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Took India 20 years to build an outdated aircraft carrier. Nothing to brag about. India still need to import fighter jets abroad to be use on the 2 outdated aircraft carriers.

 

[Jaeger]

I'm sorry to tell you This can only prove that Pakistan is weak. It cannot prove that you know how to use an aircraft carrier.

Indian aircraft carriers rarely launch carrier based aircraft. Even Indian aircraft carriers do not have nighttime takeoff and landing capabilities. It may also be possible. But very rarely.

Indian aircraft carriers can only target weak countries.

While Chinese carriers have shown no capabilities so far.
Neither at confronting Taiwan, nor US.

The three Taiwan strait crisis it has faced. China has always come in second and backed off.

As far night time operation from INS vikrant are concerned..here.

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]

 

[Nilgiri]

If a troll is seen, do not feed it with more replies. Ignore and wait for mod to take action. Don't make the moderator's job harder by feeding the troll more replies.

 

[Jaeger]

Took India 20 years to build an outdated aircraft carrier. Nothing to brag about. India still need to import fighter jets abroad to be use on the 2 outdated aircraft carriers.

Indian Navy aircraft carrier is outdated because a Chinese bot, who's navy has not even operated an aircraft for a decade and has never used it operationally, says so.

As per Chinese propaganda HMS Queen Elizabeth must be outdated too.

Only those who have fought wars, know the difference fighting with a weapon that is tried, tested and true and jumping on the "most technological advanced " weapon bandwagon and but never works, when it's needed.

A country Like US which has operated dozens of aircraft carriers is having massive troubles operating its latest EMALs equipped air craft carriers.

Just imagine, what China would face once it inducts conventionally powered EMALS.

 

[Justin TruDont]

The point is that India is bragging around in all areas - vessels, aircraft, ... - and instead of doing realistic plans, making decisions NOW and to invest, to build the facilities, institutes, yards and so on, they (aka these typical politicians and its fellow "Jai Hind"-fan boys) bast political propaganda, try to explain it with economic growth and so on.

Financially it is surely doable, but as long as India is not willing to invest NOW, to learn and develop ion its own instead on buying all over the world like LEGO toys they will never have these capabilities in let's say 20 years, when the economic situation as predicted.



On paper maybe! But let's check the facts ... what the service rate of the MiG-29K? Even the IN admits it wants to get rid of them and then? Tejas-N is downgraded as a TD, neither Rafale or F/A-18 are able to fit the two active carriers ... and now??

And again "purchasing in France" will surely solve the problem of India being capable of doing it on their own.

Mig29K have a better record than J15 aka the flopping fish

As far as their serviceability is concerned, their were issues regarding spares during first 5-6 years of operations till about 2016, but now they have been ironed out, with availability rates now matching the IAF Mig29UPGs .

It takes time for maintenance infrastructure to develop within the country

Mig29k Will remain in service till INS Vikramaditya is in service

Whenever she retires, they will retire along with it.
With current tentative date being around year 2038

INS Vikrant will remain in service till atleast 2062, hence 26 Rafales are being ordered for It

Indian navy has 5-6 more important projects that need funding before a third carrier is ordered
I would Like to see the navy place orders for 8 next gen P18 destroyers and 6 P75I submarines before they order INS Vishal

 

[Archie]

India took 20 years to build a 40000 tons outdated aircraft carrier. India will take a century to build 6 aircraft carriers.

Not a century, but 50 years is a distinct possibility

It has taken PLAN 75 years to field 3 carrier force

While India was conducting Twin carrier Operations as far back as 1987

 

[Harbyharb]

India is strengthening its least numerous destroyer fleet with new Project 17A (P17A) frigates, NGC, NGMVs which have advanced SAMs for better area defense. The Shivalik-class frigates have begun undergoing mid-life upgrades, including the integration of the BrahMos missile, as demonstrated in a recent test firing. For air defense, their Barak 1 point defense system will be replaced with a more advanced VLSRSAM system. Further help arrives with 4 Talwar Batch 3 class ships that are reportedly being fitted with Shtil VLS as seen on their sister Admiral Grigorovich class frigates

That’s exactly what I’m referring to. Even though the Soviet/Russian naval doctrines define Shtil system as an area air defence system, by NATO definition in firing channels and the number of targets engaged simultaneously, it is still a point-to-point system. Only P17A (when it comes out) with Barack-8 can be defined as having area aerial denial, and even then the Barack-8 system is a slow top-speed system that's more focused on head-on intercept against subsonic/ballistic targets. (designed by Israelis for Israelis, duh).

The Indian Navy has significantly enhanced its ASW capabilities. They've brought in modern ASW helicopters, long-range maritime patrol aircraft, advanced satellites, and SOSUS networks. Additionally, ships like the Talwar and Shivalik classes are equipped with variable depth sonar to detect enemy's submarines, especially in the shallow waters of the Arabian and Andaman Sea. Furthermore, the Indian Navy is in the process of inducting 16 ASW SWC ships, which come with low-frequency variable depth sonar systems.

By ASW capabilities I primarily mean carrier-borne ASW. Carrier groups are off-shore power projection tools, and you can't exactly bring your land-based ASW with you.

When talking about the Indian Navy the reliance on helicopter ASW is quite significant, since I do not recall Indian surface combatants employing rocket-assisted torpedoes similar to ASROC, SS-N-16 Stallion, and Yu-8, and primarily relies on heavy 533mm torpedo tubes (for some bizarre reason) and RBU launchers. Granted, the Indian navy has made advanced munitions for their RBU systems which is a great leg up from older Soviet counterparts, but its effective range remains very limited.

The helicopter options available to the Indian Navy AFAIK primarily consist of the Kamov-25/28 series, which while having a compact deck footprint, are difficult to service, demand an extensive hanger, and are falling behind in terms of operational range and payload when compared to NATO options such as Seahawk, NH-90, or even the Chinese Z-20H.

 

[DDG-80]

even then the Barack-8 system is a slow top-speed system that's more focused on head-on intercept against subsonic/ballistic targets

The speed is variable depending on the distance to target location. The extremely efficient light weight DPRM design gives it QR caps with terminal homing speed reaching Mach 5 with 2nd pulse motor.

Speed matters in interception? Yes in tail chase, but not in head on.

 

[DDG-80]

(designed by Israelis for Israelis, duh).

When the Barak-8 project kicked off the project responsibility breakdown was as follows :

India :
Dual pulse propulsion system.
pneumatic actuation systems.
Motor arming/dis-arming technologies.
Directional warhead
Smokeless propellant

Israel:
Seeker.
2-way data link.
Primary radar(MF-STAR).


In the Barak-8 JV, the propulsion was in DRDL's purview. It was also the reason for the initial delays. It was the first time that India was developing dual pulse motors. Outcome of that!
We are masters in fuel composition and missile propulsion tech.

A lot of the Israeli contribution were a relatively one time purchases, like the MF-STAR radar. You don't need a new radar for every launch, so once acquired its going to stay and will not be expended away.

 

[DDG-80]

The helicopter options available to the Indian Navy AFAIK primarily consist of the Kamov-25/28 series, which while having a compact deck footprint, are difficult to service, demand an extensive hanger, and are falling behind in terms of operational range and payload when compared to NATO options such as Seahawk, NH-90, or even the Chinese Z-20H.

The Indian Navy does operate the MH-60R helicopters. These are really advanced multi-role helicopters used for both anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare. According to some media reports, the Indian Navy is likely to equip part of its Seahawk fleet with FLASH (folding light acoustic system for helicopter) dipping sonar system from Thales.


IAI's Skimmer is being installed on the Indian Navy's Ka-28 helicopters.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

Like I noted on Twitter: „It’s always healthy to start the day with a good laugh.“

Really … how long did India struggle to build the Vikrant? Now they have a too small aircraft carrier without a proper aircraft, have the problem to find a decent replacement for its MiG-29K and instead of making realistic, affordable plans, they dream of "will make five, six more" and even more with yet another Vikrant-sized one, speak of a „naval race“ with China … this is funny!

While I agree with your sentiments one thing is for sure that Vikrant was first home made carrier so following won't be taking as long as things stream line after first build. Also For now there is only one more but they want more in future so it is politicians job to say that.

We will see how long jt takes government to give green light for third one and release funds.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

In the long run, submarines are indeed more practical

Submarines are defensive use in nature and not offensive or for power projection.

 

[DDG-80]

since I do not recall Indian surface combatants employing rocket-assisted torpedoes similar to ASROC, SS-N-16 Stallion, and Yu-8

The Indian Navy will install SMART anti-submarine missiles on its P18 cruiser ships to target enemy submarines at distances of up to 650 km.

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[DDG-80]

head-on intercept against subsonic/ballistic targets.

The Barak 8 system on Indian warships has demonstrated precise interception of supersonic cruise missiles. Watch the scene at 1:27. The Chinese have yet to demonstrate similar capabilities. In 2022, their HQ-9 system failed miserably against a dummy BrahMos missile, which was launched 124 km deep into Pakistan and ultimately hit Mian Channu.

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During the Armenia-Azerbaijan war, the Barak 8 system successfully intercepted an Iskander missile.

Iskander missiles were intercepted by Israeli-made Barak-8 air defense, says Armenia

Armenia confirmed earlier that the Iskander missile was intercepted by the Azerbaijani military a few days before the end of the armed conflict in Karabakh. As it turned out, the Russian tactical m…

www.globaldefensecorp.com