niubi
Registered Member
It doesn't use a scramjet as this random Indian tweet suggests. India has not completed its scramjet program yet and only recently moved to some very limited flight testing.
Indian Missiles and Guided Munitions
- Thread starter indushek
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It doesn't use a scramjet as this random Indian tweet suggests. India has not completed its scramjet program yet and only recently moved to some very limited flight testing.
Ya, many tweets and sometimes even article, are written without doing research. I did notice it few days before when many tweets were using scramjet for LR-AShM. It's not scramjet. Scramjet program is under project vishnu (ET-LDHCM) for hypersonic cruise missile
niubi
Registered Member
This missile is still quite a capable one even if not the type of HGV we typically attribute to "hypersonic weapon". It is still a hypersonic weapon in the sense that it is a controllable/steerable weapon.
This is similar to Chinese DF-21D and US LRHW. Using fins and very basic conical "glider". Iran has so many types of these hypersonic weapons too.
It is not similar to DF-17, DF-27, YJ-17, YJ-19, DF-100 or CJ-1000 as these are wedge/winged gliders with much greater energy boosters and/or engine powered. YJ-19 uses scramjet but CJ-1000 may use more exotic propulsion beyond scramjet like combined cycle or some form of continuous detonation engine like the many test flown even by Chinese public institutions.
Now the most impressive part is the guidance and control not just the flying missile. If India can hit moving ship sized targets with this, it is implying mastery of an entire kill chain that isn't apparent. Typically made up of constellations of earth observation satellites in both GSO and LEO, HALE ISR drones like WZ-7, WZ-8, WZ-9, WZ-10. Public launch data and traceable space launches throughout the decades indicate India has not formed and does not possess the level of ISR space assets. India also does not have any HALE ISR drones. So they would have achieved hitting moving target in some other fashion. Provided their claim of ability to hit moving target is true.
How can they do this? Inertial guidance and real time target data being fed to other forms of kill chains. Ship based sensors and MALE drones they have which can form part of the kill chain and really capable inertial guidance would be required. Or the missile itself has self contained active seeker with long enough range to pick up, interrogate and home in on target. Most likely a combination of both.
This is similar to Chinese DF-21D and US LRHW. Using fins and very basic conical "glider". Iran has so many types of these hypersonic weapons too.
It is not similar to DF-17, DF-27, YJ-17, YJ-19, DF-100 or CJ-1000 as these are wedge/winged gliders with much greater energy boosters and/or engine powered. YJ-19 uses scramjet but CJ-1000 may use more exotic propulsion beyond scramjet like combined cycle or some form of continuous detonation engine like the many test flown even by Chinese public institutions.
Now the most impressive part is the guidance and control not just the flying missile. If India can hit moving ship sized targets with this, it is implying mastery of an entire kill chain that isn't apparent. Typically made up of constellations of earth observation satellites in both GSO and LEO, HALE ISR drones like WZ-7, WZ-8, WZ-9, WZ-10. Public launch data and traceable space launches throughout the decades indicate India has not formed and does not possess the level of ISR space assets. India also does not have any HALE ISR drones. So they would have achieved hitting moving target in some other fashion. Provided their claim of ability to hit moving target is true.
How can they do this? Inertial guidance and real time target data being fed to other forms of kill chains. Ship based sensors and MALE drones they have which can form part of the kill chain and really capable inertial guidance would be required. Or the missile itself has self contained active seeker with long enough range to pick up, interrogate and home in on target. Most likely a combination of both.
niubi
Registered Member
Yeah it'll be a while before we see Indian scramjet powered hypersonic missiles. It took China almost 40 years from beginning research on scramjets in 1980s to fielding HCMs. India's recently conducted ground tests on static intake and airflow vector and more recently took it to the air for testing. If we apply China's timeline to India's recent flight testing, should be another 12-15 years before finishing program and a bit more time to develop HCM. Literature and state backed disclosures for Chinese scramjet testing programs indicated successful initial test flights around 2005-2008. Given disclosure of scramjet missiles like YJ-19, I give it a few years of active service before disclosure for this very rough timeline.
We're also ignoring tools here. Supercomputing availability and hypersonic wind tunnels no doubt expedite the process.
Provided India rushes to field HCM that is. For now it has ASBM.
Corax
Registered Member
No not really. It's basically an anti ship missile strapped to a booster. It's essentially like a CM400akg with a booster for land launch.
Engine was already tested in 2020
HSTDV was for demonstration, it turned into ET-LDHCM (actually missile)
Further testing of engine continued
ET-LDCHM was also reportedly tested last year but no official statement was given similarly to first and third test of LR-AShM which was never officially admitted.
HCM will be operational by 2030
and I stopped arguing about LR-AShM being HGV, since another HGV (project dhvani) will hopefully be tested this year and it's blended body hgv so they won't argue this time. The above photo is the only available photo of Dhvani. If they don't believe LR-AShM is HGV then it's their warships that will pay the price for their own stupidity and denial
Corax
Registered Member
Rather like how your Rafales thought PL15 was only 180km.
NeptunesVortex
SpeedLimited
Your thoughts aren’t exactly what anyone is waiting for. This isn’t your field anyway.
NeptunesVortex
SpeedLimited
We need the LR-AShM. It’s a very practical design. Its role is to engage and strike warships.
Guided boost phase with FNC and thrust termination followed by energy managed flight. A solid motor sustains atmospheric hypersonic flight. Vortex lift provides stability while decoupled lift and control maintain continuous maneuver authority throughout the trajectory.
Corax
Registered Member
Coming from someone who spouts cow dung as fact.
NeptunesVortex
SpeedLimited
Our job is to surprise you just like last year we did it with our precision munitions. A bigger surprise is waiting for India’s adversaries. What makes you think India is bound to act according to your expectations?
Corax
Registered Member
Really?! So we were the ones who were surprised?!
Have you been drinking too much bovine urine again? What about the "tactical mistake" your CDS was referring to? I wonder what he meant? Maybe losing at least 5 fighters, including your Rafales, didn't come as a shock or surprise to you indians I guess.NeptunesVortex
SpeedLimited
I don’t care what they think and neither should you; I was just thinking whether it can be made more compact for our NGDs.
They will have to change the booster. They have officially said it, they plan to make it ship launched. Most likely ship launched variant will have range from 1000-1500 km.
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