Indian Navy News & Discussions

[DDG-80]

I think you have your projects mixed up bud, project 18 is Vishakapatnam destroyers, they use MFSTAR. And the ship design won't allow for a refit of the new radar later on either.

Actually, the Visakhapatnam-class destroyers are part of Project 15B, not Project 18. Project 18 is for the Next Generation Destroyers, which will have over 120 VLS cells and can be considered cruisers since their tonnage will exceed 11,000 tonnes.

Leaked: Indian Next Gen Destroyer P-18 or NGD

Images of India’s next-generation destroyer, the P-18, have been leaked online. The images reveal a sleek, modern design with a powerful weapons suite. The P-18 is expected to be equipped wit…

battlemachines.org

 

[vikNerv]

Actually, the Visakhapatnam-class destroyers are part of Project 15B, not Project 18. Project 18 is for the Next Generation Destroyers, which will have over 120 VLS cells and can be considered cruisers since their tonnage will exceed 11,000 tonnes.

Leaked: Indian Next Gen Destroyer P-18 or NGD

Images of India’s next-generation destroyer, the P-18, have been leaked online. The images reveal a sleek, modern design with a powerful weapons suite. The P-18 is expected to be equipped wit…

battlemachines.org

My bad, friend. Google showed me p15b when I searched p18. I jumped the gun. Any latest reports on the project? This link is almost a year old.

 

[DDG-80]

My bad, friend. Google showed me p15b when I searched p18. I jumped the gun. Any latest reports on the project? This link is almost a year old.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1690673947942281216

https://twitter.com/x/status/1690681123997974528

 

[DDG-80]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803832361525670286

 

[DDG-80]

MDL in advanced talks with Defence Ministry for Rs 35,000 crore Kalvari submarine deal

MDL in advanced talks for a potential ₹35,000-crore deal to acquire three larger, modern Kalvari-class submarines with advanced electronics and propulsion for the Navy, ensuring 60% indigenous content.

m.economictimes.com

 

[vikNerv]

MDL in advanced talks with Defence Ministry for Rs 35,000 crore Kalvari submarine deal

MDL in advanced talks for a potential ₹35,000-crore deal to acquire three larger, modern Kalvari-class submarines with advanced electronics and propulsion for the Navy, ensuring 60% indigenous content.

m.economictimes.com

Cant read full article, need subscription. But what is the 60% of? Content, if so by what- weight or number of parts? Or by price. Even these two factors don't paint the full picture, need to know what exact components are indigenous and what is the definition of indigenous? Is it made in India or designed in India?

 

[DDG-80]

Cant read full article, need subscription. But what is the 60% of?

New Delhi: Talks on acquiring additional Kalvari-class (Scorpene) submarines for the Indian Navy have progressed, with state-owned Mazagaon Dockyard Limited (MDL) in advanced discussions for a potential ₹35,000-crore deal that will help boost India's underwater strength.

Sources said that the new submarines -- three additional Kalvari-class which are under negotiation -- will be larger than their predecessor and will be packed with modern electronics that will give them better strength and longer endurance.

Technological advances in propulsion will also be integrated on the new boats, which will be able to travel further than their predecessors that have already demonstrated the ability to reach as far as Australia as part of operational deployments.

MDL has submitted a detailed techno-commercial bid for the contract to the defence ministry, which has promised at least 60% indigenous content in the new boats, with a large chunk of the work going to Indian sub suppliers and the MSME sector.

While the final pricing will be determined after hard negotiations between MDL and the defence ministry, the deal could be valued at around Rs 35,000 crore, sources said, adding that this would be in line with international prices for new submarines of the class. The order is also expected to create close to 5,000 jobs over the years and a major part of the contract value will remain within the India ecosystem.

Given the high percentage of indigenous content, MDL and its suppliers are also expected to gain significant technology transfer, paving the way for future submarines of the class to be fully designed, developed and manufactured indigenously.

MDL is currently constructing the Kalvari class of submarines under Project 75 with French assistance, with the sixth and final one likely to be delivered by the end of this year. As per MDL's proposal, the additional submarines can be delivered within six years.

This will come as a relief for the Indian Navy given the urgent requirement of conventional submarines as the largest current fleet of Russian-origin Kilo class boats are already stretching their service life. The Indian Navy is also in parallel pursuing a case to construct six conventional submarines in India under Project 75I.

 

[DDG-80]

But what is the 60% of? Content, if so by what- weight or number of parts? Or by price. Even these two factors don't paint the full picture, need to know what exact components are indigenous and what is the definition of indigenous? Is it made in India or designed in India?

The largest indigenous component designed and developed will be the DRDO PAFC AIP. DRDO’s AIP system relies on the innovative Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cell (PAFC) technology. This process is more rugged, tolerant of fuel impurities, offers longer life and efficiency, and is much safer since it does not require hazardous hydrogen to be stored onboard.

While based on a proven fuel cell technology type, i.e., PAFC, NMRL’s AIP system, nonetheless, incorporates a set of innovations that make it a rather contemporary system. For one, NMRL’s AIP package has an onboard hydrogen generation plant, which produces hydrogen ‘in situ,’ unlike many other AIP configurations where hydrogen for a mission has to be carried onboard.

Moreover, onboard hydrogen production in NMRL’s/DRDO's AIP does not require any kind of combustion. NMRL’s AIP supplies hydrogen ‘in situ’ by reacting hydrogen ‘rich’ sodium borohydride with water to generate hydrogen and sodium metaborate. The advantages of this kind of ‘borohydride hydrolysis’ (BH) to generate hydrogen vis-a-vis other forms of onboard hydrogen generation. NMRL’s/DRDO's BH process generates a considerable amount of hydrogen without entailing the release of any gaseous effluents which add to system noise and can compromise submarine stealth. Moreover, BH plants also have long operational lives.

What NMRL/DRDO has done is further develop basic PAFC-related know-how to come up with indigenous PAFC stacks that are ruggedized and compact enough to be suitable for underwater marine applications with the relevant safety margins. NMRL has registered a number of innovation patents on its way to the development of indigenous PAFC stacks related to the catalysts used, sealants, acid holder matrix, carbon paper, etc.

L&T, DRDO sign contract for AIP System for submarines of Indian Navy

Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) have signed a contract to provide two Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) System Modules for the Indian Navy's Kalvari Class submarines. The AIP Modules will be manufactured, integrated and undergo factory acceptance...

www.google.com

 

[vikNerv]

The largest indigenous component designed and developed will be the DRDO PAFC AIP. DRDO’s AIP system relies on the innovative Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cell (PAFC) technology. This process is more rugged, tolerant of fuel impurities, offers longer life and efficiency, and is much safer since it does not require hazardous hydrogen to be stored onboard.

While based on a proven fuel cell technology type, i.e., PAFC, NMRL’s AIP system, nonetheless, incorporates a set of innovations that make it a rather contemporary system. For one, NMRL’s AIP package has an onboard hydrogen generation plant, which produces hydrogen ‘in situ,’ unlike many other AIP configurations where hydrogen for a mission has to be carried onboard.

Moreover, onboard hydrogen production in NMRL’s/DRDO's AIP does not require any kind of combustion. NMRL’s AIP supplies hydrogen ‘in situ’ by reacting hydrogen ‘rich’ sodium borohydride with water to generate hydrogen and sodium metaborate. The advantages of this kind of ‘borohydride hydrolysis’ (BH) to generate hydrogen vis-a-vis other forms of onboard hydrogen generation. NMRL’s/DRDO's BH process generates a considerable amount of hydrogen without entailing the release of any gaseous effluents which add to system noise and can compromise submarine stealth. Moreover, BH plants also have long operational lives.

What NMRL/DRDO has done is further develop basic PAFC-related know-how to come up with indigenous PAFC stacks that are ruggedized and compact enough to be suitable for underwater marine applications with the relevant safety margins. NMRL has registered a number of innovation patents on its way to the development of indigenous PAFC stacks related to the catalysts used, sealants, acid holder matrix, carbon paper, etc.

L&T, DRDO sign contract for AIP System for submarines of Indian Navy

Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) have signed a contract to provide two Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) System Modules for the Indian Navy's Kalvari Class submarines. The AIP Modules will be manufactured, integrated and undergo factory acceptance...

www.google.com

View attachment 50451

Thank you for posting the full.
article. Is The AIP part of the 60% indigenous content? Then that means we are still producing a lot less % of the original scorpene subs in house. If we assume the AIP is a significant proportion of the sub (7 -10% by weight) that means of the remaining sub we make only 50% in house. Pretty disappointed tbh. We should be way over 75% at this point. If we want to make our own ssk one day we can't be making less than 70 - 80% of subs in house at this point. Ofc I randomly came.up with % numbers, but that's just my feeling. Wish we knew what comes under 60%.

 

[DDG-80]

If we assume the AIP is a significant proportion of the sub (7 -10% by weight) that means of the remaining sub we make only 50% in house. Pretty disappointed tbh.

We need to import some crucial tech because we're using French origin submarines: DCNS SUBTICS combat system, Thales S-CUBE sonar, and Sagem surveillance and radars. That's what makes the Kalvari class better than those noisy Chinese submarines. In the future, the Exocet anti-ship missiles will be replaced by DRDO SLCMs, which have been tested and have a maximum strike range of 500 km

 

[DDG-80]

We should be way over 75% at this point. If we want to make our own ssk one day we can't be making less than 70 - 80% of subs in house at this point. Ofc I randomly came.up with % numbers, but that's just my feeling.

India will be rolling out 12 diesel-electric SSKs under Project 76 and 6 SSNs under Project 75 Alpha. We're aiming for heavy localization of components, similar to what we've achieved with our Arihant class SSBNs. Having full ownership of the design's IPR will really pay off!

 

[DDG-80]

Wish we knew what comes under 60%.

DRDO/NMRL PAFC AIP will boost indigenization efforts by atleast 10%-20%.

 

[DDG-80]

Is The AIP part of the 60% indigenous content?

The existing 6 Kalvari-class submarines and the future 3 Scorpene-class submarines will be equipped with NMRL PAFC AIP. The contract for fitting this AIP on our lead Kalvari-class submarine, INS Kalvari, has already been signed between L&T and DRDO.

 

[MirageBlue]

 

[Fifa124]

DRDO: Indian submarines set for indigenous edge in open seas - The Economic Times

An indigenously developed air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, set to be fitted on the first submarine next year, will significantly increase underwater endurance. It will add stealth to conventional submarines and enhancing operational effectiveness by allowing them to stay submerged for...

m.economictimes.com