India's 𝗞𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗶 𝗗𝗿𝘆 𝗘𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲 𝗛𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝟰𝟴.𝟱 𝗸𝗡 𝗶𝗻 𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮

[r3alist]

The list is endless

The list is a questionable 5

Why do you need the validation

 

[Deino]

It is the exact class needed for stealth bomber drone GHATAK UCAV. India had no such capability before. Building the core technologies (high-temperature materials, compressors, turbines, digital controls) is the hard part. Thrust rating is the application, not the only measure of difficulty.

US, and France develop engines across multiple thrust classes. They do not only work on 150 kN machines and ignore everything else. Dismissing a 50 kN dry engine as “no achievement” simply because bigger ones exist is a weak deflection. Progress is progress.

Don’t make a fool of yourself like all those fake videos and don’t call the GHATAK UCAV a ‘stealth bomber’ – it’s embarrassing! It’s a small UCAV that isn’t even airworthy at the moment; that’s all it is, and you’d probably need two Kaveri engines just to operate it properly.

And yes, progress is progress – in that sense you’re right – but whilst all the other countries with which India is so fond of comparing itself and confidently placing itself on a par are already running, you’re still just crawling, yet you present this as if it were the very best thing in the world, and as if a world marathon record were then merely a matter of training,

 

[r3alist]

Derivatives are in backwardation ( if you don't understand financial jargons , it means they are at a discount) .

These guys are contango-ing perpetually, no matter present reality

 

[r3alist]

Don’t make a fool of yourself like all those fake videos and don’t call the GHATAK UCAV a ‘stealth bomber’ – it’s embarrassing! It’s a small UCAV that isn’t even airworthy at the moment; that’s all it is, and you’d probably need two Kaveri engines just to operate it properly.

And yes, progress is progress – in that sense you’re right – but whilst all the other countries with which India is so fond of comparing itself and confidently placing itself on a par are already running, you’re still just crawling, yet you present this as if it were the very best thing in the world, and as if a world marathon record were then merely a matter of training,

I wanted to say something like this, though it's much more credible coming from you.

 

[Kaveri Engine]

Don’t make a fool of yourself like all those fake videos and don’t call the GHATAK UCAV a ‘stealth bomber’ – it’s embarrassing! It’s a small UCAV that isn’t even airworthy at the moment; that’s all it is, and you’d probably need two Kaveri engines just to operate it properly.

And yes, progress is progress – in that sense you’re right – but whilst all the other countries with which India is so fond of comparing itself and confidently placing itself on a par are already running, you’re still just crawling, yet you present this as if it were the very best thing in the world, and as if a world marathon record were then merely a matter of training,

Ghatak is a 15-ton stealth bomber UCAV capable of delivering munitions and firing air-to-air missiles. That is the platform.

The Kaveri dry engine has completed Russian flight trials and is in the formal certification process. Only five countries can design and produce a dry turbofan in this class. India is now the sixth.

The same technology base is being applied to the wet-thrust (afterburning) variant. Just as the dry engine has reached certification stage, the higher-thrust afterburning version is on track for certification within the next five to six years.

Dismissing a 15 ton stealth UCAV and an indigenous turbofan of this class as “still crawling” is the usual goalpost shift. Progress is sequential. India is building both the airframe and the engine. That is the reality.

 

[Kaveri Engine]

No it's not concrete, it's self certification, not actually inducted and operational

It doesn't remove the 4th and 5th gen bottle necks you have, which is far more important from a regional balance perspective, it's a linear step relative to your peers who are improving with a 30 year lead

Ok I can acknowledge this on face value as a step level in capability, on face value, in the narrow framing you ask.

It is not self-certification. The Kaveri dry engine completed high-altitude and flight trials on a Russian Il-76 testbed and exceeded its thrust target. CEMILAC certification is the formal Indian airworthiness process that follows external testing, the same sequence every country uses.

It has not been inducted yet. That is obvious. A certified engine ready for integration is still a concrete milestone, Only five countries in the world currently produce dry turbofan engines in this class. India is now the sixth.. Calling it non-existent because it is not yet operational is just moving the goalposts.

No one claimed it solves the 4th- and 5th-generation fighter engine bottleneck. That remains a separate, harder problem. A functional dry engine for stealth UCAVs is still a real addition to the force structure. Stealth Bombers are not irrelevant to regional balance.

Peers have a decades-long head start. That is not news. The point of sustained investment is closing the gap

 

[r3alist]

trials on a Russian Il-76 testbed and exceeded its thrust target

Serious question: it exceeded expected max design parameters or exceeded something else

That doesn't sound exactly stable if it does something you don't expect

It has not been inducted yet. That is obvious

Ok, but really that's the only valid achievement, and that's not being harsh, otherwise it's a promising useful encouraging project.

A certified engine ready for integration is still a concrete milestone

I accept this on face value, it's a milestone

Only five countries in the world currently produce dry turbofan engines in this class. India is now the sixth

Again you are giving a sensible account of this until you say something like this, you want to highlight engineering parity in this specific area, and that's true taking you on face value, but firstly it's not completed, and secondly it's not exactly a club per se, that's not denial of it's existence as a project with achievements, it's differentiating form and substance

Obvious example, the Chinese 6th gen suddenly appeared, no noise on milestones.

 

[Kaveri Engine]

Serious question: it exceeded expected max design parameters or exceeded something else

That doesn't sound exactly stable if it does something you don't expect


Ok, but really that's the only valid achievement, and that's not being harsh, otherwise it's a promising useful encouraging project.




I accept this on face value, it's a milestone


Again you are giving a sensible account of this until you say something like this, you want to highlight engineering parity in this specific area, and that's true taking you on face value, but firstly it's not completed, and secondly it's not exactly a club per se, that's not denial of it's existence as a project with achievements, it's differentiating form and substance

Obvious example, the Chinese 6th gen suddenly appeared, no noise on milestones.

Exceeding the thrust target means it delivered 48.5 kN against a design target of roughly 46 kN. That is positive performance margin under test conditions, not the engine doing something uncontrolled or unstable. Test campaigns measure whether the engine meets or surpasses its specified parameters. Surpassing the target is the desired outcome.

Induction is the final step. No one claimed otherwise. A dry turbofan that has completed high-altitude and flight trials on a foreign testbed, exceeded its thrust specification, and entered formal airworthiness certification is more than a “promising project.” It is a demonstrated engineering product moving through the last formal gates before integration.

The “five countries, India sixth” point is about the ability to design, build, and flight-test a dry turbofan in this class. Very few countries have done that independently. India has now done so. It is not yet a production engine in service, that was never the claim. Differentiating form and substance is fair; denying the substance of the trials and the rarity of the capability is not.

China’s 6th-generation aircraft appeared with little public milestone noise because that is how China chooses to communicate. Different systems, different transparency. It does not erase the fact that an indigenous Indian dry turbofan has now been flight-tested externally and is in formal certification.

 

[r3alist]

Peers have a decades-long head start. That is not news. The point of sustained investment is closing the gap

Have you closed the gap?

What is the gap?

China are still trying with their engines

 

[Vikramaditya1]

Triggered a lot of botfarm trolls with that. It's a simple 48KN jet Engine, relax we are not challenging P&W F135 with that.

 

[Deino]

Ghatak is a 15-ton stealth bomber UCAV capable of delivering munitions and firing air-to-air missiles. That is the platform.

The Kaveri dry engine has completed Russian flight trials and is in the formal certification process. Only five countries can design and produce a dry turbofan in this class. India is now the sixth.

The same technology base is being applied to the wet-thrust (afterburning) variant. Just as the dry engine has reached certification stage, the higher-thrust afterburning version is on track for certification within the next five to six years.

Dismissing a 15 ton stealth UCAV and an indigenous turbofan of this class as “still crawling” is the usual goalpost shift. Progress is sequential. India is building both the airframe and the engine. That is the reality.

... and still in 5 years we will see NOTHING!