Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[unconventional]

Does this mean that you realize there is no claim of victory or defeat possible, for either side, with the MoU, given that it is just an interim agreement to negotiate?

We are seeing fanciful claims from both Trump and the Iranian regime about who won the February war; and who got the better terms in the MOU.

Any neutral observer can see Trump is completely delusional when it comes to his claims of US victory in the war against Iran, whereas Iran’s claims about what the war achieved are much more plausible and grounded in reality.

The same thing about the text of the MOU, which is what I engaged you with. What does the text exactly say, then we can determine who the terms favor or not favor compared to the pre-war situation.

Now I never disagreed that this MOU was an interim agreement, or things can change in 60 days.

But you were referring to “does the MOU have enough for Iran to claim victory”.

If we define Iran claiming victory as getting the better of the US/Israel in the war, which was reflected in the terms of the MOU, that’s a good argument to make.

If we are defining victory as Iran getting favorable terms for 60 days per the text of the MOU, then that’s true as well.

There is no definitive conclusion on what will be discussed/accomplished/ achieved after 60 days.

Can you provide references that clearly show Iran is claiming victory in the long term negotiations with the US?

Because my understanding is that Iran is very much ready to walk away from this interim deal if the war in Lebanon does not get scaled down, and there is a sustainable drawdown of Israeli military activities there.

 

[tsunset]

The US and its allies tried in vain to lead a crusade against Iran using their crusading forward base to facilitate their plans

Fortunately for Iran, 99% (all) of their allies chickened out at the last moment and the US was alone trying to crusade Iran and convert everyone to Christian Yahoodi Evangalicalism

Their plan was a successful failure

 

[VCheng]

We are seeing fanciful claims from both Trump and the Iranian regime about who won the February war; and who got the better terms in the MOU.

LOL. Making any claims on the basis of an interim MoU is premature for both sides IMO. There is nothing in the MoU that says this term or the other favors one side or another.

What the MoU represents is enough common ground for both sides to agree upon so that it can form the base from which both sides are able to negotiate a final agreement.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Any neutral observer can see Trump is completely delusional when it comes to his claims of US victory in the war against Iran, whereas Iran’s claims about what the war achieved are much more plausible and grounded in reality.

Agreed. Trump is completely delusional, and an utter idiot to boot. I also have stated many times before that this war should never have been started in the first place!

Having said that, it is also premature for any side to claim what the war has achieved or not to date, since the final agreement is still not known.

If you find the Iranian claims more plausible, then I am fine with that. After all, I find the claims of Ghalibaf about a US defeat just as laughable as Trump's claims of an Iranian defeat.

The same thing about the text of the MOU, which is what I engaged you with. What does the text exactly say, then we can determine who the terms favor or not favor compared to the pre-war situation.

Again, let me repeat:

There is nothing in the MoU that says this term or the other favors one side or another.

What the MoU represents is enough common ground for both sides to agree upon so that it can form the base from which both sides are able to negotiate a final agreement.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

 

[unconventional]

But you didn’t answer my question about your statement that Iran has claimed victory.

Which victory were they talking about, the victory in the February war, victory in getting favorable terms in the interim agreement, or victory against the US in the long term?

And can you provide the references that clearly show who in Iran claimed victory and what specific victory they were referring to?

 

[VCheng]

But you didn’t answer my question about your statement that Iran has claimed victory.

Which victory were they talking about, the victory in the February war, victory in getting favorable terms in the interim agreement, or victory against the US in the long term?

And can you provide the references that clearly show who in Iran claimed victory and what specific victory they were referring to?

Ghalibaf:

Iran says deal to end Middle East war is "declaration of US defeat"


Baku, Azerbaijan - The deal between Iran and the US to end the Middle East war is "America's declaration of defeat," Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, the head of the Iranian negotiating team, said on Wednesday.

Speaker of the Parliament of Iran Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf arrives at the Burgenstock resort in Obbuergen, Switzerland, for talks with the US on June 21, 2026.

"The Islamabad understanding was not the result of pressure and coercion, but rather the result of the resistance and authority of the brave Iranian nation," Ghalibaf said, referring to the text finalized through Pakistani mediation.

"That is why, the Islamabad Memorandum of Understanding became a declaration of America's defeat," he said, adding that security in the Middle East must be ensured by the countries of the region.

"We consider the withdrawal of foreign military forces from the region a strategic goal" because, "not only do they not create sustainable security but they are also a source of instability," said Ghalibaf, who also serves as his country's parliament speaker.

He was addressing a conference in Azerbaijan's capital Baku on Wednesday, which was broadcast on Iranian television.

Iran says deal to end Middle East war is "declaration of US defeat"

The deal between Iran and the US to end the Middle East war is "America's declaration of defeat," Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf said on Wednesday.

www.tag24.com

(and many other sources)

 

[unconventional]

There is nothing in the MoU that says this term or the other favors one side or another.

Again, let me repeat:

There is nothing in the MoU that says this term or the other favors one side or another.

The US public, which wanted to get out of the war (and didn’t think the war was worth it in the first place) and should have logically supported the US side on the terms of the MOU disagrees with you:

“Overall, just 22% of Americans believe the U.S.-Iran agreement is better for the U.S. than for Iran, while 37% believe it was better for Iran and 41% believe it’s about equal for each, according to the CBS/YouGov poll. And 69% of respondents do not believe the war was worth the costs, while just 31% do.”

What Americans Think of the U.S.-Iran Deal, According to Polls

A majority of Americans don’t think the war with Iran was worth the costs or that the preliminary agreement is better for the U.S. than Iran.

time.com

 

[VCheng]

The US public, which wanted to get out of the war (and didn’t think the war was worth it in the first place) and should have logically supported the US side on the terms of the MOU disagrees with you:

“Overall, just 22% of Americans believe the U.S.-Iran agreement is better for the U.S. than for Iran, while 37% believe it was better for Iran and 41% believe it’s about equal for each, according to the CBS/YouGov poll. And 69% of respondents do not believe the war was worth the costs, while just 31% do.”

What Americans Think of the U.S.-Iran Deal, According to Polls

A majority of Americans don’t think the war with Iran was worth the costs or that the preliminary agreement is better for the U.S. than Iran.

time.com

Polls is USA are a dime a dozen, especially before a crucial midterm election. Is that all you've got?

 

[unconventional]

Ghalibaf:

Iran says deal to end Middle East war is "declaration of US defeat"


Baku, Azerbaijan - The deal between Iran and the US to end the Middle East war is "America's declaration of defeat," Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, the head of the Iranian negotiating team, said on Wednesday.

Speaker of the Parliament of Iran Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf arrives at the Burgenstock resort in Obbuergen, Switzerland, for talks with the US on June 21, 2026.

"The Islamabad understanding was not the result of pressure and coercion, but rather the result of the resistance and authority of the brave Iranian nation," Ghalibaf said, referring to the text finalized through Pakistani mediation.

"That is why, the Islamabad Memorandum of Understanding became a declaration of America's defeat," he said, adding that security in the Middle East must be ensured by the countries of the region.

"We consider the withdrawal of foreign military forces from the region a strategic goal" because, "not only do they not create sustainable security but they are also a source of instability," said Ghalibaf, who also serves as his country's parliament speaker.

He was addressing a conference in Azerbaijan's capital Baku on Wednesday, which was broadcast on Iranian television.

Iran says deal to end Middle East war is "declaration of US defeat"

The deal between Iran and the US to end the Middle East war is "America's declaration of defeat," Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf said on Wednesday.

www.tag24.com

(and many other sources)

This “defeat” he was referring to was specifically about the war this year.

His claim lines up with what the American public believes about this war, as well as what almost all international observers believe.

Trump claims of victory in the war against Iran are the ones that do not find much support.

 

[unconventional]

Polls is USA are a dime a dozen, especially before a crucial midterm election. Is that all you've got?

Can you show me who outside the Trump administration thinks the MOU has better terms for the US/Israel than for the Iranians?

 

[VCheng]

This “defeat” he was referring to was specifically about the war this year.

Has this war ended? There is only a temporary cessation of hostilities until a final agreement to end it is reached. Is that enough to claim who lost or won?

Can you show me who outside the Trump administration thinks the MOU has better terms for the US/Israel than for the Iranians?

Again, it is childish to see terms of the MoU as better for one side or another. As I have explained above, it merely represents common ground between the two sides.

That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[tsunset]

 

[unconventional]

Has this war ended? There is only a temporary cessation of hostilities until a final agreement to end it is reached. Is that enough to claim who lost or won?



Again, it is childish to see terms of the MoU as better for one side or another. As I have explained above, it merely represents common ground between the two sides.

That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Throughout this discussion, I repeatedly asked you to clarify three simple things:

• Why was the 60-day period strategically significant?
• What exactly did Ghalibaf mean by "victory"?
• Which specific provisions of the MOU favored the US over Iran?

You either declined to answer, said you couldn't predict the significance of the 60 days, or shifted to broader statements about the MOU simply being a provisional framework.

That is why I don't think you've actually substantiated the implications of your earlier posts. Instead of defining your claims when pressed, your position became progressively narrower and more qualified.

At this point, I think we've both stated our positions clearly enough for readers to judge.

 

[unconventional]

@VCheng

This has been the recurring pattern throughout our discussion.

When I asked you who, outside of the Trump administration, viewed the text of the MOU as more favorable to the US than Iran, you didn’t answer the question. Instead, you changed the discussion to “it’s childish to compare who got the better deal.”

When I cited US polling showing public perception of the deal, you tried to rubbish the polling instead of engaging with what it indicated.

My issue isn’t that we disagree. It’s that whenever your earlier implications are examined closely, they are either left undefined, dismissed without substance, or replaced with a different claim.

 

[VCheng]

• Why was the 60-day period strategically significant?
• What exactly did Ghalibaf mean by "victory"?
• Which specific provisions of the MOU favored the US over Iran?

Again, in simple English:

1. The 60 day period is significant because the MoU states this period as the time to negotiate a final settlement.

2. Ghalibaf's statement is pretty clear and has been given above already. He has even said the MoU represents "the end of an era", which seems pretty long term to me.

3. For the nth time, it is childish to see any terms of the MoU as favoring one side or another. The MoU is exactly that - a document showing the understanding of the common ground between two parties at war establishing the basis to negotiate an end to the war.

Is the above too hard to comprehend?

What others think is up to them, not me. They are totally free to think and post as they wish.

 

[VCheng]

When I asked you who, outside of the Trump administration, viewed the text of the MOU as more favorable to the US than Iran, you didn’t answer the question.

I did, clearly, and directly. It is indeed childish to see the MoU as favorable to one side or another. Utterly foolish, for anyone who does so..

When I cited US polling showing public perception of the deal, you tried to rubbish the polling instead of engaging with what it indicated.

LOL. Polls in USA are meaningless, since their methodology and wording is carefully designed to yield desired results, especially in the run up to crucial elections. Utterly meaningless. That is what it indicates.

It’s that whenever your earlier implications are examined closely, they are either left undefined, dismissed without substance, or replaced with a different claim.

Or you intentionally choose to not comprehend the answers. That is all on you, not me.

Again:

Perhaps this will help:

A memorandum of understanding (MoU) is a type of agreement between two (bilateral) or more (multilateral) parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used either in cases where parties do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement.

Memorandum of understanding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org