Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Master Chief]

@VCheng

This has been the recurring pattern throughout our discussion.

When I asked you who, outside of the Trump administration, viewed the text of the MOU as more favorable to the US than Iran, you didn’t answer the question. Instead, you changed the discussion to “it’s childish to compare who got the better deal.”

When I cited US polling showing public perception of the deal, you tried to rubbish the polling instead of engaging with what it indicated.

My issue isn’t that we disagree. It’s that whenever your earlier implications are examined closely, they are either left undefined, dismissed without substance, or replaced with a different claim.

Have you not met the famous and silver tongued Mr @VCheng before? You sound strangely surprised at his unique mannerisms.

We are all quite used to him and have a separate thread where we play bingo with his responses. I'm in the lead as I got 3x "time will tell" this week. Even the great man himself plays but somehow I am actually ahead of him in score.

 

[VCheng]

Have you not met the famous and silver tongued Mr @VCheng before? You sound strangely surprised at his unique mannerisms.

We are all quite used to him and have a separate thread where we play bingo with his responses. I'm in the lead as I got 3x "time will tell" this week. Even the great man himself plays but somehow I am actually ahead of him in score.

Perhaps you would like to take the lead on what I have posted about the topic above, rather than talk about my person, since that only shows your inability to actually present a coherent argument?

Let us start here:

A memorandum of understanding (MoU) is a type of agreement between two (bilateral) or more (multilateral) parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used either in cases where parties do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement.

Now, how can such a document favor one side or another?

 

[BHAN85]

USA keeps testing Iran patience, using civilian ships as guinea pigs

 

[unconventional]

I think we are going in circles at this point, what’s been said or not been said by each poster is clear for the readers to see

 

[unconventional]

One thing to clarify about the MOU, it does not merely talk about 60 days, but also provides the foundation of the future US-Iran-regional relationships through a generalized/broad framework. Hence, dismissing the significance of what the MOU states is very wrong.

 

[Feroze]

Iranian sailors seized by US handed over in Pakistan​

Iranian sailors seized by US handed over in Pakistan​

US forces boarding the sanctioned stateless vessel Davina on June 5 in the Indian Ocean located in the Indian Ocean. Iranian members of the ship's crew were handed to Iranian diplomats in Pakistan on Friday. (US Pacific Command)
Short Url

https://arab.news/n584y

Updated 26 June 2026 20:02
Arab News
June 26, 202619:53






Follow

• Twenty-two Iranian crew members seized by US earlier this month arrive at Iran's consulate in Karachi
• Pakistan's foreign minister says the sailors were on board the supertanker Davina, which the US boarded in the Indian Ocean

LONDON: Twenty-two Iranian crew members whose oil tanker was seized by the United States during the recent conflict were transferred to Iran's consulate in Pakistan on Friday.

Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar said the sailors were from the ship named Davina, which US forces boarded in the Indian Ocean earlier this month.

Iran’s state news agency IRNA reported that the crew were handed over to Iranian diplomats and are expected to return to Iran in the coming days.

Pakistan has mediated talks between the US and Iran to end the conflict, which led to an initial agreement signed last week.

Dar said Pakistan had remained in close contact with the US and Iranian authorities throughout the process.

“Arrangements are now being finalized in close collaboration with the Iranian Missions in Pakistan to facilitate their earliest and safe return to their homeland,” Dar said on X.

The group is the fourth set of Iranian crew in the past two months that Pakistan has helped repatriate.

The US military said it had interdicted and boarded the sanctioned stateless vessel Davina on June 4 as part of a blockade of Iranian ports.

The supertanker, capable of carrying up to two million barrels of crude oil, was placed under ‌US sanctions in October 2024 for Iranian oil trading, Reuters reported.

The vessel, also known as the Lenore, was seen on June 5 off Sri Lanka’s southern coast.

*With AFP and Reuters

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2648699/middle-east

 

[Master Chief]

Perhaps you would like to take the lead on what I have posted about the topic above, rather than talk about my person, since that only shows your inability to actually present a coherent argument?

Let us start here:

A memorandum of understanding (MoU) is a type of agreement between two (bilateral) or more (multilateral) parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used either in cases where parties do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement.

Now, how can such a document favor one side or another?

No actually I wouldn't.

I am going to defer to those with a lifelong career in politics, specifically American politics, to help understand who is the bigger benefactor of the terms of this MoU.

On the basis of opinions available on this matter at present, I personally believe USA has suffered a marginal strategic loss against Iran. I'm not the only one who believes the MoU's composition favours Iranian objectives over American objectives, as declared to the American public prior to and in the early days of the conflict.

“I stood and said, ‘You have not told the American people what’s going on,’” Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican, recounted to reporters afterward. “This is supposed to last four weeks. It’s lasted four months. Our original objectives have not been achieved.”

Trump's showdown with Republican Sen. Cassidy: Inside the blow-up on Capitol Hill

President Donald Trump's visit to Capitol Hill is rekindling a feud with one Republican senator. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana confronted Trump during a private lunch Wednesday.

apnews.com

Cassidy isnt the only one who holds this position among US Republican senators. I'm not going to pretend I am some expert analyst in geopolitics but I will give weight to the privately held (and now leaked) views of someone with the experience and wherewithal to comment freely and reliably on these matters. Interestingly, further information was shared with Cassidy after his outburst, which appear to have assuaged at least some of his concerns (as per the article). It would be great to know what that additional information is! But until then, I have to conclude that Iran is the main benefactor of this arrangement as written.

Now a further question arises with regards to whether or not the listed articles will be delivered on in real terms. That remains a fair question to ask. Of that I am not particularly confident. So, my declaration of an Iranian victory remains wholly dependent on delivery of the stated terms.

 

[Meengla]

On the basis of opinions available on this matter at present, I personally believe USA has suffered a marginal strategic loss against Iran. I'm not the only one who believes the MoU's composition favours Iranian objectives over American objectives, as declared to the American public prior to and in the early days of the conflict.

Right.
There is enough integrity in most Western analysts, even the most pro Israel ones, to know this war has given Iran at least the upper hand and is a strategic loss to Israel. I don't know about America except unless America loses Petro Dollar, America will be fine. It is a Superpower with many interests and many resources. Israel, on the other hand...

No point arguing with Mr. Water is Wet!

 

[unconventional]

Right.
There is enough integrity in most Western analysts, even the most pro Israel ones, to know this war has given Iran at least the upper hand and is a strategic loss to Israel. I don't know about America except unless America loses Petro Dollar, America will be fine. It is a Superpower with many interests and many resources. Israel, on the other hand...

No point arguing with Mr. Water is Wet!

My point is this MOU agreement is the best the US could have gotten in light of everything that was not achieved from the war itself.

 

[hussain0216]

If anyone wants to know how screwed the U.S is and what cards Iran has to play to force concessions, take a look at this video

 

[retaxis]

Usa was meant to parade Iran's head around in Beijing. Instead they got humbled big time and iran is stronger then ever with even all sanctions removed. But of course usa is winning

 

[925boy]

Pakistan’s PM Shehbaz Sharif:

"There cannot be double standards where some countries can have ballistic missiles and Iran should not. You cannot digest this kind of duplicity."

@maverick @lightning f57 - this!!! Is the reason Iran could enter a military alliance with Pakistan - Islamim combined with a strong sense of self confidence and independence!! As things are currently ,Iran will never join any alliance with Turkey,because it is NATO controlled and will become a Trojan against Iran if turkey and Iran formed any military alliance. similar with Saudia- it's too integrated into US military architecture, for heaven sakes it was providing logistics for US attacks on iran- until Saudia learns to be and act independently, Iran will never join any military alliance (let's forget their low competence that won't hell Iran either). Egypt is also too much under US influence and control for Iran to form any alliance with them. it's naive and confusing that some people think being Muslim and geographically located in the ME alone will qualify countries to be in a super Islamic military alliance. It's a lot more complex and ideological than that. With the decline of the US and Israel, the Western allied Muslim countries are more of a liability to other Muslim countries and could easily crumble in the near future - be warned.

 

[maxpane]

US announces framework agreement between Israel and Lebanon. Al jazeera

 

[Mero]

Iran should allow Oman to grant passage papers when the Strait is open. Have the papers be Omani-Iranian Co-operation Passage Papers. This would get acceptance of control over Hormuz and give a way to get passage without Iranian clearance.

 

[VCheng]

Now a further question arises with regards to whether or not the listed articles will be delivered on in real terms. That remains a fair question to ask. Of that I am not particularly confident. So, my declaration of an Iranian victory remains wholly dependent on delivery of the stated terms.

In other words, any such declarations of victory are as provisional as the MoU itself without a final settlement.

I agree.

=====================

Now a further question arises with regards to whether or not the listed articles will be delivered on in real terms. That remains a fair question to ask. Of that I am not particularly confident. So, my declaration of an Iranian victory remains wholly dependent on delivery of the stated terms.

@Musings ^^^This is how the smaarutt peoples say "wait and see" without saying "wait and see".